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  1. #41
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Thrudh you are playing this type of thing now...

    The order is manyshot (20 seconds), 10k stars (30 seconds), melee (30 seconds), 10k stars (30 seconds), melee/ranged (10 seconds), start all over again right?
    When you hit 10k stars... it lasts 30 seconds, with a 60 second timer.... but it ALSO kicks off a 30 second timer on manyshot (no big deal)

    When you hit manyshot... it lasts 20 seconds, with a 120 second timer... but it ALSO kicks off a 30 second timer on 10k stars (this is a big deal)...

    So, if you start with manyshot, you'll get 20 seconds, then you have 10 seconds where both manyshot and 10k are on timer, so melee/crappy ranged... then you can do 30 seconds of 10k, then 30 seconds of melee/crappy ranged, then 30 seconds of 10k, then start over...

    To be honest, I usually do 10k/melee/10k/melee (30 seconds of each) and manyshot when there's a large number of bad guys or an orange or red name.

    I use 10k as often as I can, and save manyshot for the "big" fights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  2. #42
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    No, activating manyshot starts a 30'second cooldown on 10k stars so there's a 10 second downtime after manyshot.

    In this 10 second window with enough ranged DPS I think it's unlikely that youd want to change weapons to melee and back to ranged. The 30 second downtime is another matter of course.
    Yeah that 10 second window sucks... switching from ranged to melee for 10 seconds isn't very optimal. So I usually stick with a 50/50 ranged/melee style (bonus, tons of Ki) and use manyshot for the bigger fights (8+ trash, or a named)
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  3. #43
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    So thinking about this feat progression. Here at the key issues:

    Firstly, how important is AA at early levels? I have 2 thoughts on this. 1; it's useful from the point that I have 10k stars and manyshot for ammo conservation. 2; it's useful when I can get terror arrows for the PK effect at level 17.

    Secondly, for the monk levels, stunning fist is good on a wisdom based build so I want it in there but it's mostly useful in level 12+ content so prefer it later rather than sooner. Possibly I could consider a feat swap of some description to optimise this?

    Thirdly, Zen Archery is going to be good once I have 10k stars but not really before as will mostly melee except when manyshot is off timer.

    Fourthly, IPS ASAP is amazing (earliest possible is level 12 but in the above lineup it comes at level 14).

    Finally, PLotF is awesome (+3 att/dam at level 9) and its effectiveness is doubled by extend spell (unless you're getting between shrines in 3 minutes or less). I'd say this feat is useful from level 6 (+2/+2) and extend would be nice to have at 9 if not sooner.

    Ok, so, basically, I want everything at level 12 but I can't have everything at level 12. I think the way that I'll approach this is by trying to figure out what I can put up with not having until after level 12: mental toughness/weapon focus: ranged (as AA gives less than other options), improved critical: ranged.

    So, how about this:
    Feats (by level):[/b] Past Life: Paladin (1), Point Blank Shot (1), Past Life: Soldier of the Faith (3), Extend Spell (6), Zen Archery (9), Precise Shot (12), Weapon Focus: Ranged (15), Mental Toughness (18)
    Feats (monk): Toughness (7), Stunning Fist (11), Dodge (12)
    Feats (fighter): Improved Precise Shot (13), Improved Critical: Ranged (14)

    The main cost here is that the character won't actually be an arcane archer until level 18 but it makes up for it by having IPS and 6 minutes of divine favour (+3 att/dam) much sooner than would otherwise be possible. I'm going to put this in but I'd appreciate feedback if anyone can think of a more ideal feat layout (like if IC:R is more valuable than IPS then I could take it at 12 and defer IPS to 14 again?)
    That's interesting... putting off AA until 18...

    I wanted AA as soon as possible, because it was my first AA, and the whole point was to play with the PrE. But in return, I put off IPS until 18... so my multi-target DPS suffered (but does DPS really matter before 18?)..

    Both methods work...

    I do think if you're going to do archery at all, you're going to want Zen Archery. But waiting until level 9 to do any real ranged work isn't bad at all...
    Last edited by Thrudh; 12-19-2011 at 01:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  4. #44
    Community Member korsat's Avatar
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    this is my idea, let me know if is good or not...gears are basically what i can already craft when i'll get lvl 20.

    Zendark, half-elf 12monk/6ranger/2fighter - 32point build

    Ocean stance III:

    STR 30 (15+2tome+6item+1helf+2rams+2rage+2ship+1exc+1figh ter-2ocean stance)
    DEX 28 (15+2tome+6item+1exc+2ranger+2ship)
    CON 32 (15+2tome+7item+2ship+2rage+2exc+1helf+1exc)
    INT 10 (8+2tome)
    WIS 40 (16+2tome+6item+3monk+3ocean stance+2ship+5lvlup+1helf+2exceptional)
    CHA 10 (8+2tome)

    Earth stance III:

    STR 32
    DEX 26
    CON 34 (swap +1 exc con for +1 exc wis on DT outfit)
    INT 10
    WIS 38 (swap +1 exc con for +1 exc wis on DT outfit)
    CHA 10

    Progression:
    1 Ranger - thoughness, fav.enemy: evil outsider, rogue dilly
    2 Monk - zen archer(monk)
    3 Monk - stunning fists(monk), point blank shot
    4 Ranger
    5 Ranger
    6 Ranger - mental thoughness
    7 Ranger - fav.enemy: construct
    8 Ranger
    9 Monk - dark path, w.focus: ranged
    10 Monk
    11 Monk
    12 Monk - i.critical: ranged, dodge(monk)
    13 Fighter - precise shot
    14 Fighter - greater twf
    15 Monk - i.critical: bludgeon
    16 Monk
    17 Monk
    18 Monk - power attack
    19 Monk
    20 Monk

    The idea is to level up using fists till lvl 9 when i can get aa and i can start to use both melee and ranged weapons(manyshot+melee when ms is on cooldown). From level 12 i can start to use 10k stars for 20sMS+30s10k+40secMelee+30s10k on so on. At lvl 17 i can use Touch of Death when i melee (with decent dc due to high wisdom).

    What I miss is improve precise shot...I know it's a very good multitarget source of dps but i cant fit it into cause i miss 19 dex requisite and i should drop one of ic:bludg or power attack. And i would be able to melee decently and use ToD when ranged bursts are on coldown.

    Gears:
    helm: minos legens (heavy fort, thoughness) <-- looking for something else if i can slot the thoughness
    googles: epic raven sight (exc wis +2, true seeing)
    cloak: echrono (+7 const, +5 saves, slotted +1 exc dex)
    gauntless: epic gloves of the claw (+6str, 30% healing amp)
    bracers: epic bracers of the claw (+2 exc const, heavy fort)
    boots: golden greaves (dr 3/-)/anchoring/raven's talons(when i'm not using the gem)
    neckle: shintao cord (const +6, concentration +15)
    outfit: dt outfit x2 (one slotted +1exc con for ocean stanceIII/one slotted +1 exc wis for earth stanceIII)
    belt: gs +45 hp (air guard is cheap and cool)
    ring1: epic ring of venom (sneak attack, dex +6)
    ring2: shintao(+1 exc str, +6 wis, slotted holy burst)
    trinket: epic gem of many facets/bloodstone (+6seeker)
    weapons: lit2 gs bow/ crafted wraps with lighting strike and stunning +10

    What i want from this build is to have high dps from both fists and bow, 10k+MS+ToD, an high stunning fists dc(40+), more than decent ac, 25% incorporeal from dark monk, 6d6 sneak damage+gloves when i dont have the aggro, damage mitigation and improved critical mutiplier in earth stance.

    what do you think?
    is ips so important?i think i'll prefer better melee damage(pa+gtwf+ic:bludg)
    Last edited by korsat; 01-13-2012 at 04:29 AM.

  5. #45
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    When you hit 10k stars... it lasts 30 seconds, with a 60 second timer.... but it ALSO kicks off a 30 second timer on manyshot (no big deal)

    When you hit manyshot... it lasts 20 seconds, with a 120 second timer... but it ALSO kicks off a 30 second timer on 10k stars (this is a big deal)...

    So, if you start with manyshot, you'll get 20 seconds, then you have 10 seconds where both manyshot and 10k are on timer, so melee/crappy ranged... then you can do 30 seconds of 10k, then 30 seconds of melee/crappy ranged, then 30 seconds of 10k, then start over...

    To be honest, I usually do 10k/melee/10k/melee (30 seconds of each) and manyshot when there's a large number of bad guys or an orange or red name.

    I use 10k as often as I can, and save manyshot for the "big" fights.
    Ahh, well this changes the math.

    Then it is manyshot (20)/ melee/ranged (10)/ 10k (30)/ melee (30)/ 10k (30)/ melee (30)...repeat for a cycle time of 150 seconds instead of 120 seconds OR

    manyshot (20)/ melee/ranged (10)/10k (30)/ melee (60) and repeat for a cycle time of 120 seconds, but one less 10K shots during that time. The numbers do shift then...

    (base ranged dps) * 4 * (20/150 - % of 20 seconds spent for activation time) + (base ranged dps) * 10/150 + (base ranged dps) * (ROF with 10K stars) * (1/5 - % of 30 seconds spent for activation time) + (base melee damage) * (2/5 - % of 30 seconds spent for weapon swap*2) + (base ranged dps) * (ROF with 10K stars) * (1/5 - % of 30 seconds spent for activation time) = DPS (note there is still a missing weapon transition in there which probably should be just added on to the total cycle time of 150 seconds or taken from one of the melee phases if someone is really good at timing)

    OR

    (base ranged dps) * 4 * (20/120 - % of 20 seconds spent for activation time) + (base ranged dps) * 10/120 + (base ranged dps) * (ROF with 10K stars) * (30/120 - % of 30 seconds spent for activation time) + (base melee damage) * (1/2 - % of sixty seconds needed for a weapon swap * 2) = DPS

    Taking that into consideration wisdom becomes even less of a contribution to dps then the previous estimates I made as 10K stars total uptime during a cycle is less.
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  6. #46
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Ahh, well this changes the math.

    Then it is manyshot (20)/ melee/ranged (10)/ 10k (30)/ melee (30)/ 10k (30)/ melee (30)...repeat for a cycle time of 150 seconds instead of 120 seconds OR

    manyshot (20)/ melee/ranged (10)/10k (30)/ melee (60) and repeat for a cycle time of 120 seconds, but one less 10K shots during that time. The numbers do shift then...

    (base ranged dps) * 4 * (20/150 - % of 20 seconds spent for activation time) + (base ranged dps) * 10/150 + (base ranged dps) * (ROF with 10K stars) * (1/5 - % of 30 seconds spent for activation time) + (base melee damage) * (2/5 - % of 30 seconds spent for weapon swap*2) + (base ranged dps) * (ROF with 10K stars) * (1/5 - % of 30 seconds spent for activation time) = DPS (note there is still a missing weapon transition in there which probably should be just added on to the total cycle time of 150 seconds or taken from one of the melee phases if someone is really good at timing)

    OR

    (base ranged dps) * 4 * (20/120 - % of 20 seconds spent for activation time) + (base ranged dps) * 10/120 + (base ranged dps) * (ROF with 10K stars) * (30/120 - % of 30 seconds spent for activation time) + (base melee damage) * (1/2 - % of sixty seconds needed for a weapon swap * 2) = DPS

    Taking that into consideration wisdom becomes even less of a contribution to dps then the previous estimates I made as 10K stars total uptime during a cycle is less.
    Soooo.... why not 10k (30 sec), Manyshot (20 sec), Melee/ranged (10 sec), 10k (30 sec), Melee/ranged (30 sec)? 120 sec
    or Manyshot (20), melee/ranged (10), 10k (30), Melee/ranged (30), 10k (30)? 120 sec
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  7. #47
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Ahh, well this changes the math.

    Then it is manyshot (20)/ melee/ranged (10)/ 10k (30)/ melee (30)/ 10k (30)/ melee (30)...repeat for a cycle time of 150 seconds instead of 120 seconds OR

    manyshot (20)/ melee/ranged (10)/10k (30)/ melee (60) and repeat for a cycle time of 120 seconds, but one less 10K shots during that time. The numbers do shift then...

    (base ranged dps) * 4 * (20/150 - % of 20 seconds spent for activation time) + (base ranged dps) * 10/150 + (base ranged dps) * (ROF with 10K stars) * (1/5 - % of 30 seconds spent for activation time) + (base melee damage) * (2/5 - % of 30 seconds spent for weapon swap*2) + (base ranged dps) * (ROF with 10K stars) * (1/5 - % of 30 seconds spent for activation time) = DPS (note there is still a missing weapon transition in there which probably should be just added on to the total cycle time of 150 seconds or taken from one of the melee phases if someone is really good at timing)

    OR

    (base ranged dps) * 4 * (20/120 - % of 20 seconds spent for activation time) + (base ranged dps) * 10/120 + (base ranged dps) * (ROF with 10K stars) * (30/120 - % of 30 seconds spent for activation time) + (base melee damage) * (1/2 - % of sixty seconds needed for a weapon swap * 2) = DPS

    Taking that into consideration wisdom becomes even less of a contribution to dps then the previous estimates I made as 10K stars total uptime during a cycle is less.
    This is funny maths that doesn't make sense.

    Whether you 10k stars first or Manyshot first the cycle is 120 seconds with 40 seconds of downtime.

    Putting in complicated formula doesn't make it right, just makes how wrong it is look even worse.


    Quote Originally Posted by korsat View Post
    this is my idea, let me know if is good or not...gears are basically what i can already craft when i'll get lvl 20.

    Zendark, half-elf 12monk/6ranger/2fighter - 32point build

    Ocean stance III:

    STR 30 (15+2tome+6item+1helf+2rams+2rage+2ship+1exc+1figh ter-2ocean stance)
    DEX 28 (15+2tome+6item+1exc+2ranger+2ship)
    CON 32 (15+2tome+7item+2ship+2rage+2exc+1helf+1exc)
    INT 10 (8+2tome)
    WIS 40 (16+2tome+6item+3monk+3ocean stance+2ship+5lvlup+1helf+2exceptional)
    CHA 10 (8+2tome)

    Earth stance III:

    STR 32
    DEX 26
    CON 34 (swap +1 exc con for +1 exc wis on DT outfit)
    INT 10
    WIS 38 (swap +1 exc con for +1 exc wis on DT outfit)
    CHA 10

    Progression:
    1 Ranger - thoughness, fav.enemy: evil outsider, rogue dilly
    2 Monk - zen archer(monk)
    3 Monk - stunning fists(monk), point blank shot
    4 Ranger
    5 Ranger
    6 Ranger - mental thoughness
    7 Ranger - fav.enemy: construct
    8 Ranger
    9 Monk - dark path, w.focus: ranged
    10 Monk
    11 Monk
    12 Monk - i.critical: ranged, dodge(monk)
    13 Fighter - precise shot
    14 Fighter - greater twf
    15 Monk - i.critical: bludgeon
    16 Monk
    17 Monk
    18 Monk - power attack
    19 Monk
    20 Monk

    The idea is to level up using fists till lvl 9 when i can get aa and i can start to use both melee and ranged weapons(manyshot+melee when ms is on cooldown). From level 12 i can start to use 10k stars for 20sMS+30s10k+40secMelee+30s10k on so on. At lvl 17 i can use Touch of Death when i melee (with decent dc due to high wisdom).

    What I miss is improve precise shot...I know it's a very good multitarget source of dps but i cant fit it into cause i miss 19 dex requisite and i should drop one of ic:bludg or power attack. And i would be able to melee decently and use ToD when ranged bursts are on coldown.

    Gears:
    helm: minos legens (heavy fort, thoughness) <-- looking for something else if i can slot the thoughness
    googles: epic raven sight (exc wis +2, true seeing)
    cloak: echrono (+7 const, +5 saves, slotted +1 exc dex)
    gauntless: epic gloves of the claw (+6str, 30% healing amp)
    bracers: epic bracers of the claw (+2 exc const, heavy fort)
    boots: golden greaves (dr 3/-)/anchoring/raven's talons(when i'm not using the gem)
    neckle: shintao cord (const +6, concentration +15)
    outfit: dt outfit x2 (one slotted +1exc con for ocean stanceIII/one slotted +1 exc wis for earth stanceIII)
    belt: gs +45 hp (air guard is cheap and cool)
    ring1: epic ring of venom (sneak attack, dex +6)
    ring2: shintao(+1 exc str, +6 wis, slotted holy burst)
    trinket: epic gem of many facets/bloodstone (+6seeker)
    weapons: lit2 gs bow/ crafted wraps with lighting strike and stunning +10

    What i want from this build is to have high dps from both fists and bow, 10k+MS+ToD, an high stunning fists dc(40+), more than decent ac, 25% incorporeal from dark monk, 6d6 sneak damage+gloves when i dont have the aggro, damage mitigation and improved critical mutiplier in earth stance.

    what do you think?
    is ips so important?i think i'll prefer better melee damage(pa+gtwf+ic:bludg)
    IPS is that important, it is absolutely crucial to have the feat. Especially considering how little you have to give up to get; just improved critical bludgeoning (which only adds 5%*30/120 DPS vs 0 fort mobs and less vs others) or power attack which you may not have the AB to make use of most of the time anyway.

    Regarding feat order I really dot think that zen archery is needed until you have 10k stars or stunning fist, Ki is just not that important to conserve until then.

    I love your idea of swapping a +1 exceptional item (wis/con) based on what stance you're in, I'll steal that one from you (but I'll keep my frozen tunic as freezing ice is nice).

    I don't see any green slots in your current gear lineup so no opportunity to ditch toughness. I'd suggest to use windhowlers as a swap item if you can slot heavy fort elsewhere (like going for minII GS).

    On your alchemic wraps I'd suggest to go for air/water instead of air/air maximizing stunning fist DC is important to make sure you can handle trash aggro and water is similar DPS to air (except for doublestrike) but better vs a wider variety of foes (mostly untyped damage). Epic Spare Hand is a nice source of doublestrike (I'll maybe get eBotClaw to swap in with this to maintain 100% fort).

  8. #48
    Community Member korsat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    IPS is that important, it is absolutely crucial to have the feat. Especially considering how little you have to give up to get; just improved critical bludgeoning (which only adds 5%*30/120 DPS vs 0 fort mobs and less vs others) or power attack which you may not have the AB to make use of most of the time anyway.

    Regarding feat order I really dot think that zen archery is needed until you have 10k stars or stunning fist, Ki is just not that important to conserve until then.

    I love your idea of swapping a +1 exceptional item (wis/con) based on what stance you're in, I'll steal that one from you (but I'll keep my frozen tunic as freezing ice is nice).

    I don't see any green slots in your current gear lineup so no opportunity to ditch toughness. I'd suggest to use windhowlers as a swap item if you can slot heavy fort elsewhere (like going for minII GS).

    On your alchemic wraps I'd suggest to go for air/water instead of air/air maximizing stunning fist DC is important to make sure you can handle trash aggro and water is similar DPS to air (except for doublestrike) but better vs a wider variety of foes (mostly untyped damage). Epic Spare Hand is a nice source of doublestrike (I'll maybe get eBotClaw to swap in with this to maintain 100% fort).
    if ips is that important i need a +3 dex tome :| then i'll swap the feats. do you think i'll have problems at hitting with 30 str +4raven+2shintao+4gh in epics with pa on?

    I can swap zen archer and stunning fists in the feats order...but it doesnt change a lot cause i start from lvl 4 with 32 pbuild.

    I can go with -2 dex (no +1 exc on cloak and only +1 ranger dex) and slot the thoughness on the cloak so i can free the helm slot(i don't have anything for the epic mr. helm yet). Depends on how much the ac will be good probably...

    Ty for the suggestion about the wraps i'm not so expert in the crafting yet.

  9. #49
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korsat View Post
    if ips is that important i need a +3 dex tome :| then i'll swap the feats. do you think i'll have problems at hitting with 30 str +4raven+2shintao+4gh in epics with pa on?

    I can swap zen archer and stunning fists in the feats order...but it doesnt change a lot cause i start from lvl 4 with 32 pbuild.

    I can go with -2 dex (no +1 exc on cloak and only +1 ranger dex) and slot the thoughness on the cloak so i can free the helm slot(i don't have anything for the epic mr. helm yet). Depends on how much the ac will be good probably...

    Ty for the suggestion about the wraps i'm not so expert in the crafting yet.
    Yes, you'll have trouble hitting in epics. It's why I'm not minding missing out on power attack so much (though I have PL:SotF to make up for it). In particular, you won't be able to use power attack vs trash as missing even a single stunning fist opportunity will really hurt your overall effectiveness.

    Similarly for gear now that I look at it again I'd suggest that it is absolutely crucial to slot enhanced Ki +1 somewhere as otherwise you'll end up having to keep swapping to fire stance while melee'ing to keep Ki up.

    So yes, swap power attack to improved precise shot and put a level up into dexterity to qualify with a +2 tome. If you pull a +3 tome then do a TR down the track for more build points.

  10. #50
    Ultimate Uber Completionist Dalsheel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    As I need the AB to hit in melee and -3 damage for +1 wisdom modifier doesn't work out positively. Was this suggestion serious?

    In other news, does anyone know definitively if, for purposes of AB, windhowler bracers, shintao set and ravens sight set all stack? I'm assuming they all do for damage purposes with claw set too.
    the bracers attack bonus doesnt stack with any +to-hit bonus item u may have (eg Spectral Gloves) and the damage bonus from the bracers does not stack with the +2dmg shipbuff.

    the attack bonus should stack with the exceptional +4 to-hit u get from the Fens set tho
    Argonnessen - Death N Taxes
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  11. #51

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    There's an error in your most recent edit, WoWo.

    You say that for 32/34 point builds, you should drop Int/Cha but in this particular build you only put a single point into Int and zero into Cha. Obviously this isn't a huge deal, but I thought you'd want to know.

    Also, seeing as this is the only non-Arti, Monk based build in your index, and the first one linked in your 2 Monkchers thread (and thus the most likely one for a newer player to check out) have you considered releasing a version that isn't so Past Life intensive?
    Bronies: For those who get it, no explanation is needed; for those who don't, none will do.

  12. #52
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expalphalog View Post
    There's an error in your most recent edit, WoWo.

    You say that for 32/34 point builds, you should drop Int/Cha but in this particular build you only put a single point into Int and zero into Cha. Obviously this isn't a huge deal, but I thought you'd want to know.

    Also, seeing as this is the only non-Arti, Monk based build in your index, and the first one linked in your 2 Monkchers thread (and thus the most likely one for a newer player to check out) have you considered releasing a version that isn't so Past Life intensive?
    Fixed the stat issue, left over from a slightly less optimised version. Also added a warning at the top of the build regarding the lack of UMD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
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  13. #53
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    Default Why bother with AA now?

    I think the value of AA in this build, frankly, is pre-U15. And in general in terms of accomplishing slayer arrows.

    The dps choices now with EDs at level 20 make slayer arrows kind of silly to waste 13 AP over 20 levels and juggling class or feat to get mental toughness. And let's be honest.. you can craft whatever elemental damage arrows you want easily while leveling and no risk of your core dps being reduced by debuffs should they happen somehow.

    25 avg hit per arrow, but modal damage of zero, and only granted at level 20 as a helf.

    I've run variations on this build now for three lives and frankly, I'm happiest right now as a human 12 monk/8ftr with kensei I for the longbow... afterall... Lolth and the drow are all subject to critical hits.. LoB and construct fortification isn't the top issue anymore. The two extra fighter levels are temporary... I'm considering a +2 lesser in the near future more for planning a mongrel for a PLF.

    But overall.. I don't think AA is worth it anymore... I think it would be interesting to reconsider AA entirely for any archer build. I have and the options it opens up has made the build even more fun. I melee far more with better damage and usually only pull out the bow for thick groups of mobs and definitely for bosses.

    Clear out your cache, summon a bunch of +5 arcane arrow stacks, TR, and don't look back!

    Thanks for an interesting discussion so far.

  14. #54
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    Default

    well wowo is not here to replay anymore.

    Nice thinking outside the box:

    If I well understood, you say that AA is not required for bow DPS because it costs too much feats and AP (sorry if I did not capture well your post).

    Ok so can you tell me where will you use these feats/AP to match the 25 avg dmg per arrow ?

  15. #55
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrootaype View Post
    The dps choices now with EDs at level 20 make slayer arrows kind of silly to waste 13 AP over 20 levels and juggling class or feat to get mental toughness. And let's be honest.. you can craft whatever elemental damage arrows you want easily while leveling and no risk of your core dps being reduced by debuffs should they happen somehow.
    Umm, how does playing an monkcher preclude you from adding ED goodness on top of AA? I know feats are tight, but AFAICT all of wowo's builds include the necessary ranged feats; and it's not like you can spend APs on EDs or Fate points on Enhancements or...well, you get the idea. Basically even if Slaying Arrows ain't "all that" anymore, I'm not seeing what dropping AA from these builds would gain you in terms of ranged DPS.
    Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  16. #56
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Stats and Race (36pt build): Half-Elf
    Str: 45 (14 base +1 fighter +4 tome +2 completionist +8 item +2 insightful +1 exceptional +2 rage +2 madstone +2 rams might +2 yugo +2 double madstone +3 primal scream)
    Dex: 25 (17 base +4 tome +2 cmplt +6 item -2 earth)
    Con: 34 (14 base +3 tome +2 cmplt +6 item +2 rage +4 madstone +3 earth III +1 exceptional con)
    Int: 14 (9 base +3 tome +2 completionist)
    Wis: 50 (16 base +6 levels +4 tome +2 cmplt +4 enhancements +7 item +3 insightful +2 yugo +2 ship +4 shiradi)
    Cha: 19 (8 base +3 tome +2 cmplt +6 item)
    32/34 point build: Drop int/dex
    Ability increase every 4 levels: All in wisdom.

    Equipment (hypothetical max DPS, obviously need something more balanced):
    Helm: Epic Mroranon Helm (GFL)
    Gloves: Epic Gloves of the Claw
    Cloak: Cloak of the Wolf
    Boots: Madstone Boots
    Trinket: Planar Focus of Prowess (+8 strength)
    Bracers: Epic Bracers of the Claw
    Belt: Knosts Belt
    Necklace: Gilvaenors Necklace
    Goggles: Tharnes Goggles
    Armour: Spider Spun Caparison (+3 insightful wisdom)
    Ring1: Encrusted Ring (+2 insightful strength)
    Ring2: Gilvaenors Ring (20% healing amp)
    Weapons: Pinion, Cloud Piercer

    Details:
    DPS: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...4QzdtNVE#gid=0
    Stats don't match the gear set. You're calculating in +1 exceptional CON and +6 CHA but those are not part of the gearset listed.

    The HP of this buildout is a bit dubious:
    1. Only one Toughness feat (plus Completionist) but no Toughness enhancements.
    2. No 45 HP Greensteel.
    3. Unless you've got many pair of Madstone Boots, +4 CON/STR/DEX is unlikely with 25% Incorporeal, 12% Dodge and Blur/Displacement. You'll be running circles around the mobs your kiting with 3 effective levels of fast movement and 30% striding.

    Some different gear choices to consider:

    Helm: Greensteel 45 HP/Smoke
    Ring: Seal of Avithoul +7 WIS (replaces Encrusted)
    Belt: +8 STR (guild slot would be a bonus)
    Trinket: +3 exceptional STR
    Goggles: Epic Goggles of Time Sensing (GFL and +1 exceptional)
    Chest: You can stick with the +3 exceptional WIS if it makes your WIS is even (goggles provide +2 WIS), otherswise use a +3 exceptional DEX.

    As for the Dilettante, Cleric provides 95% Heal, True Seeing scrolls and other utility like Raise Dead (100%) and Greater Restoration (85%). Obviously a drop in DPS from Rogue, but it's a push when you're -10 stats/saves from lesser SF potions.
    Last edited by Carpone; 01-12-2013 at 09:48 AM.
    Khyber: Ying-1, Kobeyashi, Nichevo-1 | 75 million Reaper XP

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