It's time for DDO II

[Diyon]

Correct me if Im wrong, isnt cataclysm the new version?

I'm pretty sure it was just a game revamp, people still had everything they had before.

[Thrudh]

Correct me if Im wrong, isnt cataclysm the new version?

That's an update... I'm all for updating DDO...

DDO2 would mean starting over. WOW has never started all over.

[dkyle]

No need of DDO II. Neverwinter is coming and i have the feeling it will rock, especially cause that will use the 4th edition rules, designed specifically for videogames in my honest opinion.

Oddly enough, I love 4E as a tabletop game, but I don't have high hopes for Neverwinter MMO, partly because I don't think 4E is well-suited for a real-time MMO. So much of it is wrapped up in the specific nature of a tabletop, turn-based, grid-based game. 3.5 was more of a world-simulation engine, and less strongly a specifically "tabletop" game.

4E is well suited for a virtual tabletop game, since the vast majority of its rules are clear, concise, and amenable to computerized rules checking. But I'm not sure they generalize well past tabletop-style games.


And as for the OP, no to a DDO2. I don't see a good reason to start over. And I doubt Turbine even could if they wanted to, given Neverwinter MMO probably has exclusive 4E rights, and WotC probably won't authorize a new 3.5-based game.

[Captain_Wizbang]

That's an update... I'm all for updating DDO...

DDO2 would mean starting over. WOW has never started all over.

OK, thanks, shows how much ( or little) I know of other games.

[Diyon]

Oddly enough, I love 4E as a tabletop game, but I don't have high hopes for Neverwinter MMO, partly because I don't think 4E is well-suited for a real-time MMO. So much of it is wrapped up in the specific nature of a tabletop, turn-based, grid-based game. 3.5 was more of a world-simulation engine, and less strongly a specifically "tabletop" game.

4E is well suited for a virtual tabletop game, since the vast majority of its rules are clear, concise, and amenable to computerized rules checking. But I'm not sure they generalize well past tabletop-style games.


And as for the OP, no to a DDO2. I don't see a good reason to start over. And I doubt Turbine even could if they wanted to, given Neverwinter MMO probably has exclusive 4E rights, and WotC probably won't authorize a new 3.5-based game.

A lot of people miss this about 4e. On the surface, it does have a lot of video game resembling like stuff. But in actuality it would be harder to translate to a real time video game since the 4e combat is very much tied up in turns and tactical positioning and movement of yourself, allies and your enemies. 4e had me (I liked some parts, enough to play it) until they started using errata like it was going out of style.

[madmaxhunter]

Lots of flame for OPs post. I'm going to approach it from another angle. Most every "gamer" knows about DDO and has played DDO if so inclined. There is a level of diminishing return to any game. Kids (no, I'm not speaking of children, all ages can fit this category) want the latest thing. Just look at the silly lines for the newest I-Phone.

DDO2 would be a new package to attract those types of players. Sure, we don't REALLY want the flavor of the month player, but the influx of cash helps us continue our hobby/obsession/addiction.

All I care about is the continuation of DDO. Don't give a lick about NWO or anything else. I hate MMOs, I love D&D. Once DDO finally dies, I'll be going back to FPS, RPG and sims.

And housing has been discussed a few times on the forums. I'm all for it. Would create tons of new DDO Store vanity items. Use it or don't. Will make money for the game.

[Captain_Wizbang]

All I care about is the continuation of DDO. Don't give a lick about NWO or anything else. I hate MMOs, I love D&D. Once DDO finally dies, I'll be going back to FPS, RPG .

.

+1, thats post of the day right there.

[LucidLTS]

Example of a MMO game that failed to live up to what it was promising: http://www.planeshift.it/

LMAO!! - Yeah, I loaded that a few weeks ago when I was mad at a hireling ( http://my.ddo.com/lucidlts/2011/11/2...made-me-do-it/ ). It sounded *awesome*, perfect in nearly every way. Then I actually started playing it ... I certainly appreciate more the DDO devs' efforts to make the game new player friendly!

So, OK, you've convinced me to qualify my enthusiasm, "IF" is definitely important here. IF PO lives up to promises it will have me too

There is a lot in DDO that annoys me right now, but it *definitely* could be worse.

Oh, and Vanquished, rest at ease - Pathfinder is an extension of 3.5e, not 4e. I heard the 4e somewhere too but their web site clearly says 3.5.

[Talias006]

No need of DDO II. Neverwinter is coming and i have the feeling it will rock, especially cause that will use the 4th edition rules, designed specifically for videogames in my honest opinion.

For me, 4e was designed to cater to WoW players.
And that's just not how D&D should be, IMHO.

It already is.

Sorry, Cataclysm isn't WoW2.
It's just the latest Expansion.
Until Pandaria is released.

[Quetzacoala]

Why try to fix something that is not broken?

[Diyon]

LMAO!! - Yeah, I loaded that a few weeks ago when I was mad at a hireling ( http://my.ddo.com/lucidlts/2011/11/2...made-me-do-it/ ). It sounded *awesome*, perfect in nearly every way. Then I actually started playing it ... I certainly appreciate more the DDO devs' efforts to make the game new player friendly!

So, OK, you've convinced me to qualify my enthusiasm, "IF" is definitely important here. IF PO lives up to promises it will have me too

There is a lot in DDO that annoys me right now, but it *definitely* could be worse.

Oh, and Vanquished, rest at ease - Pathfinder is an extension of 3.5e, not 4e. I heard the 4e somewhere too but their web site clearly says 3.5.

Ya, I remember it when I was looking for a new game to play after I left Perfect World, I was reading the site and all I could think was "This is awesome! I can't wait to get into this!" And then I started playing. The whole you have to find your way out of the land of the dead was a neat idea though.

People mention 4e with Pathfinder because some of the changes that Pathfinder made to 3.5e are addressing some of the same problems from 3.5e that 4e was addressing. So people say its the best of both. One thing I absolutely loved about 4e was end of the CR encounter system. 4e was so much better for gauging appropriately challenging encounters (also some other things better from a DMs standpoint). I hated the CR system with a passion. Especially that lying piece of crud known as the multiple monster encounter level chart. More often than not it would give you things that the party would walk over (instead of an ok challenge), or you'd accidentally slaughter half/the whole party.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You do realise that with Turbine's current ability to design content, if DDO II were released anytime soon it would two function classes, threee races (maybe). And four dungeons (only one of which would be a raid).


Somehow that just doesn't sound fun to me.






Now..... if suddenly, by some miracle, Turbine was actually able to release a ton of content rapidly..... then. Maybe. I might be more enthusiastic about a second edition.

[Cyr]

You do realise that with Turbine's current ability to design content, if DDO II were released anytime soon it would two function classes, threee races (maybe). And four dungeons (only one of which would be a raid).


Somehow that just doesn't sound fun to me.






Now..... if suddenly, by some miracle, Turbine was actually able to release a ton of content rapidly..... then. Maybe. I might be more enthusiastic about a second edition.

Okay I almost never give you kudos, but this one really deserves an one.

My hats off to you sir.

[Uska]

Umm no thanks it would be 4E and I would rather not go there.

[Uska]

No need of DDO II. Neverwinter is coming and i have the feeling it will rock, especially cause that will use the 4th edition rules, designed specifically for videogames in my honest opinion.

No it wont rock the possible pathfinder mmo has a better chance for being a better game than that trainwreck does.

[KreepyKritter]

Figured I'd cast my 2cp into this thread.

First off, my blinders are off. There is plenty about DDO that could use updated/fixed/polished/etc. That said, even with the acknowledged holes/bugs/missing Sh!*, it's still a helluva long way from any other MMO I've played of its kind. Nothing on the F2P landscape even breathes the same atmosphere, least of all WoW. Among P2P fare, there are some with better graphics (SW:TOR comes to mind), some with broader customizations options, and some with more content (note, I said more, not better). The one thing that all these other MMO's lack is the very reason I'm not likely to leave any time soon...

It's Effing D&D, man. Everything else in the genre is just pretending to be what Dungeons and Dragons has been for the previous 40+ years. It's the original, the innovator, the yard stick by which other RPG's measure themselves, whether PnP or MMO.

I've tried WoW, and it failed to endear itself to me, with it's ridiculous looking hex-graphics, one-track progression and screeching 13 year olds, that old bag can take its 15 million (or whatever) players, and go rot for all I care.

Champions Online is a joke. I've read comic books with more immersion and more fluidity of movement, and its bastard child, City of Heroes, is worse.

The Star Trek MMO was a bad idea from the start, especially since EVE beat them to the idea and their implimentation was better.

The only game out there that has even a slim chance of stealing more than a few days worth of my attention away is the fabled World of Darkness MMO that CCP is allegedly going to put out at some point in next 12 months... If they ever commit the kind of Dev resources necessary to actually do the source material justice on a level that the fan base will demand. WoD players are a decidedly fickle bunch, and they'll tear to shreds anything sub-par in a matter of hours.

Conclusion: An improved game engine would be nice, and some miscellaneous fixes would be welcome, but for the forseeable future, nothing else compares.

[dkyle]

Conclusion: An improved game engine would be nice, and some miscellaneous fixes would be welcome, but for the forseeable future, nothing else compares.

I ultimately agree, but for a different reason. To me, the "D&D" in DDO is barely more present than in any other fantasy MMO, because once you don't have a table with a DM and players forging a story together, it's really not D&D anymore. Having a bunch of D&D-like mechanics is little more than a thin veneer, and doesn't mean much to me. But it doesn't bother me, because I don't think an MMO can reasonably capture D&D's real spirit.

But what does keep me here is the wonderful combination of wide and varied character building options, and a truly fun, active combat engine. I love building characters, and I enjoy using twitch skills in games. WoW-style MMOs (like LotRO) just feel terribly sluggish and boring in comparison.

Now if we could get a little attention on the serious balance issues since U9 (and before), and at least slow the rapidly accelerating charge towards Pay2Win...

[Vanquishedfo]

LMAO!! - Yeah, I loaded that a few weeks ago when I was mad at a hireling ( http://my.ddo.com/lucidlts/2011/11/2...made-me-do-it/ ). It sounded *awesome*, perfect in nearly every way. Then I actually started playing it ... I certainly appreciate more the DDO devs' efforts to make the game new player friendly!

So, OK, you've convinced me to qualify my enthusiasm, "IF" is definitely important here. IF PO lives up to promises it will have me too

There is a lot in DDO that annoys me right now, but it *definitely* could be worse.

Oh, and Vanquished, rest at ease - Pathfinder is an extension of 3.5e, not 4e. I heard the 4e somewhere too but their web site clearly says 3.5.

that does seem to be accurate, which makes pathfinder sound alot more like a real shot at some quality D&D mmo action. However and I actually see this as a good thing but also kind of bad as I was rather hopeful for NWO in the aspect of the foundry and the idea of expanding to the entire D&D multi verse. If pathfinder is inlcuding a fair bit of 3e/3.5 that would indicate to me NWO cant have that much beyond FR rights and makes that game seem ALOT smaller likely to end up some shallow failure like CO has the last few months.

Funny enough a system I didnt give much appreciation to when it was new was hackmaster done by kenzerco when wotc was dropping ad&d rules and going to D20 with 3e. it was to many the real 3rd ed ive discovered, and to many like myself, the things some called silly or spoofy was really just what I wanted in books.

A fun little example is the hackmaster monster manuels. Virtually every creature right down to dawg:rottwieler includes details like what parts of them can be used for spell compenents like the faithful ***** spell. It was 2nd ed taken to the umpteenth degree and I decided recently to order the whole basic set off amazon recently ( xmas gift to myself) to try and start putting a new pnp group together. I might even do it via the online web style route just because I feel 4e has proven that though I love 3e it was almost not even needed. AD&D was all we ever needed we just for some reason forgot that.

[LucidLTS]

that does seem to be accurate, which makes pathfinder sound alot more like a real shot at some quality D&D mmo action. However and I actually see this as a good thing but also kind of bad as I was rather hopeful for NWO in the aspect of the foundry and the idea of expanding to the entire D&D multi verse. If pathfinder is inlcuding a fair bit of 3e/3.5 that would indicate to me NWO cant have that much beyond FR rights and makes that game seem ALOT smaller likely to end up some shallow failure like CO has the last few months.

Pathfinder and NWO can co-exist - Pathfinder took the 3.5 OGL content and expanded it (preserving the OGL status!) based on customer feedback and extensive testing. They made their own world and have no license to D&D properties, NWO can still have them. The Foundry is a huge thing for me too, and I do hope both succeed.

What really knocks my socks off about Pathfinder is their leadership - Their CEO reads their forums, responds to user questions, explains design decisions (and the alternatives he rejected), and apparently knows not just the game he's leading, but also has a solid grasp of technology. Contrast to Fernando. I provided the link above, but it's just so awesome to me I've got to repeat it http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz4v92&pag...sand-Miles#136

No MMO is ever going to get it right on the first try, but if the CEO is paying attention to customers, and taking heat directly when things go wrong, I believe he'll make sure they get fixed promptly.

Funny enough a system I didnt give much appreciation to when it was new was hackmaster done by kenzerco when wotc was dropping ad&d rules and going to D20 with 3e. it was to many the real 3rd ed ive discovered, and to many like myself, the things some called silly or spoofy was really just what I wanted in books.

Awesome! I played a few Hackmaster games at cons years ago and loved them. It's hard to say how much was a great GM and how much was a good system, but I definitely had fun and hope you will too. Great times, great times.

I might even do it via the online web style route just because I feel 4e has proven that though I love 3e it was almost not even needed. AD&D was all we ever needed we just for some reason forgot that.

I hear ya' - I still have all of my AD&D books, and they are on the bookshelf not packed in storage. I still play every other weekend, though it's 3.5e now, and play DDO only as a weak substitute for the real version. The worlds we build in our imagination are the best, and I'm always glad to get reminded of that.

Have fun!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

LOL. This tells me all I need to know about your point of view.

Lol....so true.

If only you would stop posting long enough for me to spread some rep around.