Are Raids worth running?

[EarlofPain]

Okay I've played for some time but being free to play I've only slowly acquired the packs with raids. Now that I'm to the point of running them I have been very disappointed with the loot. With the exception of Shroud crafted items and the Torc from ADQ I'm just not seeing the point. The rest of the stuff just seems... well Meh. Even items designed for Clerics in mind such as Lorrik's Necklace seem like a waste. Wizardy VI when I have a crystal cove hat with Archmagi. Wisdom +6 is so easy to get I don't even consider this a boost. Efficient Meta magic is craftable in House C. A healing boost to level 8 and lower heals is okay except I use the level 9 mass heal almost all the time so it's a semi pointless buff. Is it that divine raid items are just not that exciting or is it that I'm not running my divine in the right way.

[voodoogroves]

Okay I've played for some time but being free to play I've only slowly acquired the packs with raids. Now that I'm to the point of running them I have been very disappointed with the loot. With the exception of Shroud crafted items and the Torc from ADQ I'm just not seeing the point. The rest of the stuff just seems... well Meh. Even items designed for Clerics in mind such as Lorrik's Necklace seem like a waste. Wizardy VI when I have a crystal cove hat with Archmagi. Wisdom +6 is so easy to get I don't even consider this a boost. Efficient Meta magic is craftable in House C. A healing boost to level 8 and lower heals is okay except I use the level 9 mass heal almost all the time so it's a semi pointless buff. Is it that divine raid items are just not that exciting or is it that I'm not running my divine in the right way.

It isn't that the individual items are mostly things you can duplicate, but rather that you can consolidate things into smaller spaces and then push mroe gear into the mix.

eChrono for the Abishai set, TOD rings, DQ for the Torc, Hound for the Levik's shield (better than Lorriks), Abbot for spell casting boosters / SP stretchers, etc.

There are reasons to hit the raids. That said, once you hit cap with the gear you can make you *CAN* do quite a bit without all the raid gear.

[danotmano1998]

That entirely depends on the individual.

I run raids regularly because to me they are one of the most fun parts of DDO.
So my answer would be YES!

But for you, that may not be a compelling reason.

[Bobthesponge]

Also remember that most raids were designed before crafting and so that was the only way to get these kinds of items. Crafting was designed to essentially get customized raid gear, so your choice is to grind Shroud for a Lit II/Min II weapon or grind crafting levels until you can craft the equivalent.

That being said, Voodoo is correct in that raid gear has the ability to consolidate more than craftable weapons/items. Stormreavers Napkin isn't prized because of the +6 INT - which is common - but the +1 to all DCs that it adds as well. Add ToD rings with augment slots and the various Shroud combinations and you can really start to fit all sorts of things in.

Plus, and this may be the best argument yet, raids are FUN. They are designed as the most challenging quests and usually require a lot of coordination from a large group. This is a game designed for fun and challenge and raids provide that.

[Pape_27]

Okay I've played for some time but being free to play I've only slowly acquired the packs with raids. Now that I'm to the point of running them I have been very disappointed with the loot. With the exception of Shroud crafted items and the Torc from ADQ I'm just not seeing the point. The rest of the stuff just seems... well Meh. Even items designed for Clerics in mind such as Lorrik's Necklace seem like a waste. Wizardy VI when I have a crystal cove hat with Archmagi. Wisdom +6 is so easy to get I don't even consider this a boost. Efficient Meta magic is craftable in House C. A healing boost to level 8 and lower heals is okay except I use the level 9 mass heal almost all the time so it's a semi pointless buff. Is it that divine raid items are just not that exciting or is it that I'm not running my divine in the right way.

Once you get used to raiding, it opens a whole new dimension to the game.

Gear wise, there really isnt a great selection of stuff for divines, but there are some pieces that work well in a cross class way. The bracers from hound are nice, as are the ones from VoD (Leviks and Glacier); the Rings from ToD are worth while because some come with useful +1 exceptional stats and you can add +2 exception stats to them.

I think if you do decide to leave off raiding you will be missing so much of the game. It would be a shame to miss out on that.

[guardianx2009]

How a chance at +3/+4 tomes? And the goal of reaching 20th completion for end reward of your choice? Those are pretty reasons to me.

[EarlofPain]

So what I'm getting from the first few replies is the loot is mildly okay but you have to really figure out what you want ahead of time. I do agree that fun is more important to me than having a good character. I have enjoyed the guild runs with my buddies where we have spent more time fishing soul stones out of lava pools than clearing the dungeon. Those are the runs we talk about with smiles on our faces. However there is always that "HEY THIS IS COOL" moment when you hit a piece of gear that you are willing to adjust everything else you have so it will fit in. For my divine it just doesn't seem to be out there. Yeah I know... stop playing the divine. However I'll keep him around and keep slugging out the raids for now. Thanks for the comments all.

[sirgog]

So what I'm getting from the first few replies is the loot is mildly okay but you have to really figure out what you want ahead of time. I do agree that fun is more important to me than having a good character. I have enjoyed the guild runs with my buddies where we have spent more time fishing soul stones out of lava pools than clearing the dungeon. Those are the runs we talk about with smiles on our faces. However there is always that "HEY THIS IS COOL" moment when you hit a piece of gear that you are willing to adjust everything else you have so it will fit in. For my divine it just doesn't seem to be out there. Yeah I know... stop playing the divine. However I'll keep him around and keep slugging out the raids for now. Thanks for the comments all.

There's some really impressive gear for divines out there. Highlights (all assuming you do not melee at all, if you do, add some melee items to the list):

VON6: Epic Helm of the Mroranon (only +7 Wisdom item in the entire game). Epic Belt of the Mroranon (basically Minos Legens as a belt, but with a lot more on it)
DQ2: Torc (classic or epic) as already mentioned. Bracers of the Demon Consort and Lion-Headed Belt Buckle work well for some builds too.
Reaver: Not much, but the unsuppressed Gauntlets of Eternity are pretty solid.
Abbot: Staff of the Petitioner (for the SP cost reduction), Litany of the Dead, Noxious Embers (for the clicky)
Shroud: HP and SP items, Concordant Opposition, 10/15/20% elemental absorb niche use items, 45 resist niche use items, much much more
VOD: Not much here.
HOX: Best shields in the game for when you just need to turtle up behind one.
TOD: +2 exceptional stats on rings, Archmage set for better spell crits
Chrono: Epic Envenomed Cloak
LOB/tMA: So much here, but I'm extremely partial a shield with Superior Devotion 9 and Alchemical Wisdom +2 in one hand, and a caster stat stick with Superior Light Lore in the other.

[Kinerd]

Even the dumb raids are worth running as a cleric so your guildies aren't stuck being the cleric all the time.

Except for Titan, of course.

[goodspeed]

If you can get something out of it, then ya it's usually worth running. If you can't then odds are I wouldn't bother.

I'm guessing it's the ladder among other reasons why finding raid healers aren't the most bountiful. Expecially an epic chrono that's trying to go for a completion. (all know how much fun that is)

[good_ole_corwin]

I'm guessing it's the ladder among other reasons why finding raid healers aren't the most bountiful. Expecially an epic chrono that's trying to go for a completion. (all know how much fun that is)

No idea what youre talking about. Just had a pug run today, cleric and 2 FvSs, non-evasion tank (pally), no pots, no deaths, even with a bard and a sorc in there in the low 300 HPs range.

[Habreno]

If you can get something out of it, then ya it's usually worth running. If you can't then odds are I wouldn't bother.

I'm guessing it's the ladder among other reasons why finding raid healers aren't the most bountiful. Expecially an epic chrono that's trying to go for a completion. (all know how much fun that is)

EChrono? Either that is a VERY bad party formation or the divine plain outright sucks. I can PUG that in my sleep on my Cleric.

[Stermlin]

A healing boost to level 8 and lower heals is okay except I use the level 9 mass heal almost all the time so it's a semi pointless buff.

Ur probably overhealing then. 90% of the time I use an Empowered Healing Cure Light. Even in Hard VOD or HOX I don't need to use Heal Mass that often.

[Vanquishedfo]

first the fact is its well known little raid gear is of use to a raid cleric who is typically used almost exclusively as a nannybot and now days expected to chug mana pots on pugs with no recompense. In fact many who play divines are part of a no healing pug raid mindset now long practiced in an effort to force turbine to recognize the lack of respect they give to those forced by poor game design to carry other players or face waisted game play time.

since you mentioned it being a guild run that isnt a factor your choosing to take up a burden to aid your allies but there will be little you really use unless your speccing to bea real cleric and not a nanny. Healing should be your 2ndary aspect after either warrior or combat casting. Either of which can be focussed in and used to rival the best arcanes while still having all you need invested in healing and being a radiant servant to sustain any but the most worthless of groups.

The real power of the cleric comes from his ability to simply NOT NEED others. once you accept raid loot is generally not that great over what you can get solo, and you only need that uber loot to do the same quests they come from you will see why most consider the raid/epic/end game scene of DDO a huge failure and why TRing is such a huge amount of everyones play style now.

[Firesmall_at]

I have not done epic yet, but the raid loot helps spec your casting for it. The lvl 18+ content is can be tough at any difficulty. And I see the epic raid geared toons shine during those runs.

The Superior Ardor VIII belt drops are nice and a Green Blade helps. I would not necessary say the grinding is worth your time. I prefer buying pots to that, but I would like that Green Blade to drop to see more criticals on my DP.

Had a +4 wisdom tome drop the other day during TOD raid. Not sure if I will ever TR this guy.

[sirgog]

Ur probably overhealing then. 90% of the time I use an Empowered Healing Cure Light. Even in Hard VOD or HOX I don't need to use Heal Mass that often.

Sounds like you are wasting mana. A lot of it.

Mass Heal every 10 seconds is a lot cheaper SP wise than throwing a max-empped Mass Cure every 5 seconds or a barely-metaed Mass Cure every 3 seconds or so. And if that Mass Heal lands on someone with 160hp out of 700 for 995 points of healing? That's still a very cheap 540 points of healing.

I do use other spells than Mass Heal, but only when there's some reason that I have to sacrifice efficiency.

[danlan]

There's some really impressive gear for divines out there. Highlights (all assuming you do not melee at all, if you do, add some melee items to the list):

VON6: Epic Helm of the Mroranon (only +7 Wisdom item in the entire game). Epic Belt of the Mroranon (basically Minos Legens as a belt, but with a lot more on it)
DQ2: Torc (classic or epic) as already mentioned. Bracers of the Demon Consort and Lion-Headed Belt Buckle work well for some builds too.
Reaver: Not much, but the unsuppressed Gauntlets of Eternity are pretty solid.
Abbot: Staff of the Petitioner (for the SP cost reduction), Litany of the Dead, Noxious Embers (for the clicky)
Shroud: HP and SP items, Concordant Opposition, 10/15/20% elemental absorb niche use items, 45 resist niche use items, much much more
VOD: Not much here.
HOX: Best shields in the game for when you just need to turtle up behind one.
TOD: +2 exceptional stats on rings, Archmage set for better spell crits
Chrono: Epic Envenomed Cloak
LOB/tMA: So much here, but I'm extremely partial a shield with Superior Devotion 9 and Alchemical Wisdom +2 in one hand, and a caster stat stick with Superior Light Lore in the other.

Abbot: Vile Blasphemy, you really get addicted to multiple viles.

[moops]

There's some really impressive gear for divines out there. Highlights (all assuming you do not melee at all, if you do, add some melee items to the list):

VON6: Epic Helm of the Mroranon (only +7 Wisdom item in the entire game). Epic Belt of the Mroranon (basically Minos Legens as a belt, but with a lot more on it)
DQ2: Torc (classic or epic) as already mentioned. Bracers of the Demon Consort and Lion-Headed Belt Buckle work well for some builds too.
Reaver: Not much, but the unsuppressed Gauntlets of Eternity are pretty solid.
Abbot: Staff of the Petitioner (for the SP cost reduction), Litany of the Dead, Noxious Embers (for the clicky)
Shroud: HP and SP items, Concordant Opposition, 10/15/20% elemental absorb niche use items, 45 resist niche use items, much much more
VOD: Not much here.
HOX: Best shields in the game for when you just need to turtle up behind one.
TOD: +2 exceptional stats on rings, Archmage set for better spell crits
Chrono: Epic Envenomed Cloak
LOB/tMA: So much here, but I'm extremely partial a shield with Superior Devotion 9 and Alchemical Wisdom +2 in one hand, and a caster stat stick with Superior Light Lore in the other.

I'll add
Reaver--Head of GOod Fortune--+2 Luck is pretty nice. Napkin +1 to all spell DCs --nice until you can get something better.
Abbot--Vile Blaspheny--SP clickie
DQ--Epic Goggles of SPirit Sight--+2 to Necro and Enchantment DC.


But I raid mostly for fun and to group with more than 6 friends at a time, my healers have always been my richest alts as if the guild isn't doing something I can pick up something else in a matter of 5 mins.

[Meat-Head]

Sounds like you are wasting mana. A lot of it.

Mass Heal every 10 seconds is a lot cheaper SP wise than throwing a max-empped Mass Cure every 5 seconds or a barely-metaed Mass Cure every 3 seconds or so. And if that Mass Heal lands on someone with 160hp out of 700 for 995 points of healing? That's still a very cheap 540 points of healing.

I do use other spells than Mass Heal, but only when there's some reason that I have to sacrifice efficiency.

^^ This. Why is this not universally known by healers? You're called HEALers for a reason. You're not CUREers.

[Carpone]

Okay I've played for some time but being free to play I've only slowly acquired the packs with raids. Now that I'm to the point of running them I have been very disappointed with the loot. With the exception of Shroud crafted items and the Torc from ADQ I'm just not seeing the point. The rest of the stuff just seems... well Meh.

Turbine has done a poor job of itemizing for divine casters. With a few notable exceptions, most of the raid and epic loot isn't desired by divines. The Cannith Challenges have totally overlooked divine casters.