Multi-class PrEs?

[lilleengen2]

Would a multi-class PrE system such a bad idea?
For example, multi-classing Wiz/Rog would make an Arcane Trickster. You get SA damage to ray spells and the like. You get the idea.. It could result in some very interesting builds.
The reason I put a question mark behind this, is because it might be more trouble than it is worth. But I would love to see more of the PnP PrCs ( As PrEs, of course. ). Might just be me, what do you think?

1. I think uncompleted PrEs should be completed first, of course.
2. If this have already been discussed and got a /not signed. from everyone, tell me so and I will close the thread.
3. I am aware that DDO =/= PnP! B-)

[Such755]

* There are many benefits to some multiclasses, adding PrE might make them just too much.
* I would really really REALLY like to see other PrE made before seeing something like this (Cleric?!)
* Although it might make some combinations too powerful, it is a very interesting idea, and I would like to some day see it happen.

So overall - /Signed, but only when the "Normal" PrE are all ready.

[Gorbadoc]

I'd rather see generic PrEs than multiclass PrEs.

Elven Arcane Archer is a great example of a generic PrE. It works as a full-fledged PrE for single-class or multi-class builds. Its requirements force you to dabble in one of a handful of classes, but the exact class is flexible, and the requirement is related to the theme of the PrE.

Actually, there is a multiclass presumption built into the Elven Arcane Archer progression. A ranger/magic user or ranger/mage in First or Second Edition would lag a couple levels in each class behind a pure wizard or pure ranger. Similarly, an elven wizard who (for whatever reason) takes up arcane archery advances in that PrE a few levels behind a pure ranger Arcane Archer.

That's not to say I want non-class-specific versions of existing PrEs. On the contrary, I want to see such PrEs as:

• Master Thrower.
• Duelist
• Dwarven Defender (okay, not really; I'm picturing a dwarven favored soul with Stalwart Defender abilities, and the result would probably make the game implode with its power).
• Dread Pirate (if memory serves, they get some adventure abilities that wouldn't matter in DDO, plus some group buffs).

[bigolbear]

Thanks to the devs listening to the players (yes it does happen, we has proof) - There are 3 prestiges curently implemented that gain additional benefits from multiclassing.

These are:
arcane archer (requires multiclassing if not a ranger and no blue bar as standard, indirect benefits for doing so - mostly feats.)
warchanter (requires feats easier to get via multiclassing, grants benefits for mixing with barbarian)
kensai (bonus KI for unarmed kensai fighter monks)

Back when these were first implemented there were suggestion threads on both the EU and US forums where the devs were actively involved discussing options.

Eldrich knight was suggested as well but as I understand it It was deemed unsuitable.

Id fully expect War preist when it comes out to have some synergy with fighter/paladin/monk.

The elemental savants have synergies with multiclass characters, take fire savant for example - using this my spell sword (see tukaw build thread) can get +4 to intimidate and a bonus fire guard. both features are prety useless to a pure sorc but on that kind of build they have definate use.

Rather than MORE prestiges id like to see the ones we have considered more carefully by both the players and the devs, the devs could add a few more 'off key' benefits to encourage more varied builds and the players .. well the players could look a bit closer and think outside the box because often what you want is right under your nose.

[azrael4h]

I'd like to see them tackle any PrE's. Other than a lonely tier of Battle Engineer, the devs have been a bit reluctant to push something out on us these past few updates.

[Vanquishedfo]

in pnp prestige classes where infact part of the reason for the revamp of the multi / dual class system of previous editions. the way it was altered in DDO really was unfairly skewed towards making pure classes and thier extreme specialization the standard to which all had to measure effectively killing the game in its early days and one of the many factors that lead to DDO being just a f2p mmo with a rep for being good for hack and slash and thats about it.

[Gorbadoc]

in pnp prestige classes where infact part of the reason for the revamp of the multi / dual class system of previous editions. the way it was altered in DDO really was unfairly skewed towards making pure classes and thier extreme specialization the standard to which all had to measure effectively killing the game in its early days and one of the many factors that lead to DDO being just a f2p mmo with a rep for being good for hack and slash and thats about it.

Strong statements. I didn't realize pure classes were the standard, I didn't realize this was unfair, I didn't realize the game had been killed by this, and I didn't realize this led to the game becoming f2p. Oh, and I didn't realize the game ever had a rep for being good for just hack'n'slash.

Conversely, my own experience suggests you're wrong on every one of the above points. That's anecdotal, though. If you have a reason for making your claims (other than being delusional), please explain. Unsubstantiated claims give me the heebie jeebies.

[kierg10]

All I have to say is Dashing Swordsman http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html

[Grenada]

* There are many benefits to some multiclasses, adding PrE might make them just too much.
* I would really really REALLY like to see other PrE made before seeing something like this (Cleric?!)
* Although it might make some combinations too powerful, it is a very interesting idea, and I would like to some day see it happen.

So overall - /Signed, but only when the "Normal" PrE are all ready.

Yes, though I assumed that the multiclass PrEs (henceforth, MPrEs) would be for less useful builds (making them less of a joke).

Such as the Sorcerer monk making a dragon disciple. Normally the only build would be the Tukaw build, but some variations may all of a sudden become more viable (such as 17/3 sorc/monk; or 16/3/1 sorc/monk/pally etc.)

Or a bard/wizard making something in line with the arcane trickster, a hierophant from cleric/favored souls, a shadowbane stalker from rogue/paladin, mystic thuerge from sorcerer/favored soul, the list goes on.

Making something which would be too useful (such as a fighter/monk MPrE, giving this added bonus could be dangerous; unlike those with caster mixes, melee characters will have less effect from MPrEs on their effectiveness since they will only lose out on a bit of BAB, and maybe the final tier of their main class PrE).

Though I do agree let's see the already planned PrE's first.

[nibel]

Multiclass prestiges would be great if they require almost a perfect split. Dabbling don't give you a big path.

Eg: Arcane Trickster I would require Wiz3/Rogue3. Plus 3 levels each class for each tier. That way, if you get the first tier of the prestige, you automatically lose the chance to get tier 3 of any class prestige.

Sure, some classes are great to dabble 3 levels, like monk and paladin. Others, not that much. But they pay on the PrE being good.

If we follow this path, in the end we can have something like a wiz 11/Rogue 9 with Trickster III, Mechanic I and Archmage II. Hmm, maybe allowing tier 2 on one class prestige. But not sure how to handle the pre-requisites. Brainstorming is fine, anyway.

I'll just /sign for the "think about it after finishing all other PrEs first"

[Calebro]

Actually, there is a multiclass presumption built into the Elven Arcane Archer progression. A ranger/magic user or ranger/mage in First or Second Edition would lag a couple levels in each class behind a pure wizard or pure ranger. Similarly, an elven wizard who (for whatever reason) takes up arcane archery advances in that PrE a few levels behind a pure ranger Arcane Archer.

[nitpick] A pure ranger couldn't become an arcane archer in PnP. One of the requirements is the ability to cast 1st level arcane spells (hence the name Arcane archer), which a pure ranger does not fulfill. [/nitpick]

[RJBsComputer]

I first would love for the Devs to FINISH the Pre Lines that they HAVEN"T FINISHED yet before they start new ones

[voodoogroves]

Personally I'd love to see existing PREs opened a bit to be more like DDO's Arcane Archer. I'd like to see Wizard Savants, Sorcerer PMs, etc.

Maybe the abilities are offset until a bit later, maybe it would require some specific capabilities to really dis-incent some options, but I'd like to see it as an option.

[lilleengen2]

Yes, though I assumed that the multiclass PrEs (henceforth, MPrEs) would be for less useful builds (making them less of a joke).

This was what I had in mind, really.

Though I do agree let's see the already planned PrE's first.

Well, this was what I tried to say in my original post. I should probally have formulated it better, but eh. I think planned and unfinished PrEs should be done first before they start with something new. I also think they should fix more of the bugs and fix some of the more broken things in game before they start something new. I just wanted to throw out the idea and give it some air.

[Aesop]

I would definitely like to see the requirements for PrEs moved from class specific to more generic.

Perfect example would be Tempest.

Dodge Mobility and Spring Attack. Drop the Ranger prerequisite and let anyone who really wants to pick that up do so.... Of course Tempest could use an extra benefit mixed into it... I'm thinking tier 2 could add full off hand strength mod to damage.

Instead of specific Enhancements being required Feats, Skill Ranks, and Class Features would be requirements.

Then you could see some different builds. PrEs are a limited resource overall due to their cost anyway.

Additionally more interesting Enhancements and options that may preclude getting PrEs would be interesting. Like adding in Book of Nine Sword abilities that could be picked up by Feats and Enhancements.

Aesop

[Niv-mizzet]

I would absolutely love to see mystic theurge, enlightened fist (at least I think that was the name of that sorc/monk I played), arcane trickster and other multi-class prestiges show up. Whether I think they would be that GOOD is another issue entirely, but I would still enjoy playing the ever-handy "high int for arcane dc's and passable wis just for the buffs and heals" theurge value pack toon.

Implementing some of them seems hard, especially for the ones that mess with spell progression on your base class. I think the best way they could possibly go in is to literally be a class with its own BAB/saves/spells/abilities table, have its own trainer (or some multiclass prc trainer that just handles them all somewhere) and have the player who qualifies for getting into it take it as levels of their third class (the first two being the ones they're mixing, obviously) pretty much emulating the "real" prc system from pnp. I do believe having a multiprc should also lock out other prestiges on your two base classes as well.

Welp I have no illusions that even if everyone in the universe, past, present, and future liked the idea, we still wouldn't see them for at least a couple years...but hey, it's nice to dream. Maybe they'll show up when we 'snicker' get done with all the single class prc's. (I can't say that with a straight face.)