Healing Amplification Spell

[Firesmall_at]

Just hit 19 pure Cleric.

I believe I have Life Magic I-IV.

Yes on Empower Healing, though I use it only situationally. It tends to drain my sp pool (around 1870) too quickly. I can and will address that most likely through some GS sp gear.

I have nothing better than Devo VI (Staff of the Fleshshaper I think) and no idea where to get anything better. This is why my single target Heal does so much better than Mass Heal.

As a lvl19 pure I can't understand why you don't have empower healing on. Can you show me some numbers. Assuming you have radiant servant 2 that is a 75% boost.

It is ok sparingly at low lvls, but after rad serv 2 even without the improved empower healing enhancements to it I leave it on all the time.

And you never use ardor?

Wow.

[SirValentine]

Just hit 19 pure Cleric.

I believe I have Life Magic I-IV.

Yes on Empower Healing, though I use it only situationally. It tends to drain my sp pool (around 1870) too quickly. I can and will address that most likely through some GS sp gear.

Not having Empower Healing on is your answer right there. With it on, you would do:

10 * 21 (19 Clr + 2 RS) * 1.4 (Life Magic IV) * 1.75 (Empower Heal)
= 514

With it off, no *1.75, so only 294. That's 220 poinst difference in healing.

For Mass Heal, if you have Quicken on, and nothing that reduces the cost of Empower Heal feat, you would spend 70 SP to heal everyone for 514. With it off, you still spend 60 SP, and only heal 294. It is well worth it to leave it on.

And since you can get enhancements and items to lower the cost to as little as 4 extra SP per casting, it's very worthwhile almost all the time.

I have nothing better than Devo VI

Plain old Devotion? You should be able to find Superior Devotion VI fairly easily, or, better still, Superior Potency VI. They drop on random items. If you are on G-Land, drop a mail to Budstein and I'll give you one.

Items that affect Mass Heal are relatively rare; I wouldn't worry too much about not having one, since, as above it heals for 500+ anyway.

However, if you have access to the Devils of Shavarath pack, there are a couple of belts with Superior Ardor VIII clickies on them. Those are not too hard to get, and well worth it.

[LordMond63]

As a lvl19 pure I can't understand why you don't have empower healing on. Can you show me some numbers. Assuming you have radiant servant 2 that is a 75% boost.

It is ok sparingly at low lvls, but after rad serv 2 even without the improved empower healing enhancements to it I leave it on all the time.

And you never use ardor?

Wow.

As I said, I have somewhere around 1800sp. Having Empower Healing on drains that power bar far too quickly for me to be able to sustain any meaningful amount of healing over any serious amount of time (say, a three-round part 4 Shroud). I do not have any of the mana replenishment clickies other than the Archivist Necklace (no Mysterious Bauble or the like) so that's not a realistic option. So when I run out of power, all I can do is have RS2 on and that doesn't come close to keeping up with end-game damage output- hence my favoring some additional healing capability of some sort that is NOT gear-dependent.

I should probably mention something about my personal play style here that might be relevant. I tend to heal as conservatively as I possibly can, trying to insure that I do not blow through my spell points too quickly. I try not to overheal, try not to constantly top off folks between fights (situationally dependent of course) or anything else that might waste spell points. In short, I always assume the worst is going to happen so that I am not unduly depressed when it does.

As for Ardor, it has essentially the same limitation that Devotion gear has, namely that anything over level 6 is- and should be- rare. I understand that it offers up to a 75% boost for a limited amount of time, but typically only to level 1 through 6 spells, and it isn't my Heal that needs the boost so much as my Mass Heal. If I could come across an Ardor IX item, now.......

Plain old Devotion? You should be able to find Superior Devotion VI fairly easily, or, better still, Superior Potency VI. They drop on random items. If you are on G-Land, drop a mail to Budstein and I'll give you one.

I >think< the Staff of the Fleshshaper is Greater Devotion VI, so it isn't as bad as all that.

[Habreno]

As I said, I have somewhere around 1800sp. Having Empower Healing on drains that power bar far too quickly for me to be able to sustain any meaningful amount of healing over any serious amount of time Scroll of Heal. Get some Wand/Scroll mastery and use it on people who are a bit low.(say, a three-round part 4 Shroud Not your fault here, drop group and form another one). I do not have any of the mana replenishment clickies other than the Archivist Necklace (no Mysterious Bauble or the like I have 2003 SP, and the only thing I have for SP restoration is Concordant Opposition, so I'm maybe 300 over you. However, he solo-heals a decent bit of end-game, and wants to attempt a solo-heal EChrono (which I imagine will occurr with only two memonics in Blood Plate)) so that's not a realistic option Work on it. So when I run out of power, all I can do is have RS2 on and that doesn't come close to keeping up with end-game damage output RS 1 when fully meta'd is a very solid heal. If all you have for metamagics is Empower Healing, then you're in a sad bit of shape here, but if you have even Maximize (adding Empower as well makes things only better), you're still 150 or so on a burst, which is decent mana-free healing.- hence my favoring some additional healing capability of some sort that is NOT gear-dependent. This appears to be a play issue.

I should probably mention something about my personal play style here that might be relevant. It is. I tend to heal as conservatively as I possibly can, trying to insure that I do not blow through my spell points too quickly. There is a line between conservative and super-conservative, one I think you've stepped over. I try not to overheal, Mass Heal will not overheal (and will underheal quite a bit) unless you have Empower Healing active, then it will regardless of what you do, until you encounter that WF barbarian who thinks healing amp is a dump stat try not to constantly top off folks between fights (situationally dependent of course) Heal scrolls help here. SP-free topoffs. Radiant Aura is also useful for this, and if people do not listen then make it a known point that you are only there for in-combat heals. Your Radiant Aura is there for out of combat. If you don't want to use the available out of combat healing, then bring your own. or anything else that might waste spell points. Buffs appear a SP-loss, but bring more in savings than their cost. DC-dependent, Greater Command beats healing the damage, as does Implosion or things. In short, I always assume the worst is going to happen so that I am not unduly depressed when it does.

As for Ardor, it has essentially the same limitation that Devotion gear has, namely that anything over level 6 is- and should be- rare. I understand that it offers up to a 75% boost for a limited amount of time, but typically only to level 1 through 6 spells, and it isn't my Heal that needs the boost so much as my Mass Heal. If I could come across an Ardor IX item, now.......

Use Mass Cures more. Mass Heal is not the end-all, be-all. Heal should be used on tanks. Grab Scrolls.

Alchemical Crafting T1 Mystical can grant Superior Devotion IX. This should be a goal of any divine.



I >think< the Staff of the Fleshshaper is Greater Devotion VI, so it isn't as bad as all that.

Red.

[Firesmall_at]

As for Ardor, it has essentially the same limitation that Devotion gear has, namely that anything over level 6 is- and should be- rare. I understand that it offers up to a 75% boost for a limited amount of time, but typically only to level 1 through 6 spells, and it isn't my Heal that needs the boost so much as my Mass Heal. If I could come across an Ardor IX item, now.......

I got my Amara's Belt Superior Ardor VIII on my fourth or fifth run of New Invasion. There are tons of chest in there.
The end boss is tough, but if you have an epic geared tank and you are not too conservative with heals you should complete.

Did 3 runs of Genesis and got no Tok belt.

On my 6th raid of Tower of Despair I pulled the Tokala's Belt and a Wisdom +4 tome.

I hit gold.

For the high drop rate these items are a must have for mass cures. Really your mass light and moderate is better with Superior Ardor (and all 3 metas) than a mass serious or mass critical (and all 3 metas) without ardor. But when u get these belts then you can remove the mass light and moderate shortcuts as a hot key.


A must have pack for a Cleric/divine IMHO.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Tower_of_Despair

http://ddowiki.com/page/Amara%27s_Belt

http://ddowiki.com/page/Tokala%27s_Belt

And if you get the sets your turns go up.


This for offensive and your healing.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Green_Blade

[SirValentine]

For the high drop rate these items are a must have for mass cures. Really your mass light and moderate is better with Superior Ardor (and all 3 metas) than a mass serious or mass critical (and all 3 metas) without ardor. But when u get these belts then you can remove the mass light and moderate shortcuts as a hot key.

All 3 metas? Ouch, you do want him to blow through SP.

Empower Healing is such a big boost for such a small cost, it is worth it to leave it on all the time for everything, but Maximize and Empower are expensive overkill, in my opinion.

But yes, get the Superior Ardor 8 clicky belts. Mass Cure Critical/Serious with Empower Healing and Superior Ardor will be great for those times when Mass Heal is too slow.

[Firesmall_at]

Yep,

I wanted to show the other extreme. Using all the metas is unnecessary because in most cases you can get by with Mass Heal, heal and heal scroll. Only one toon should be pulling agro on a main boss if things are organized.

As for being conservative. I can see the point too. Raise dead and Res are a lot cheaper than using all this mana to keep someone alive... unless the boss gets a boost from a death. Guess which raid that is?... the one with the sup ardor VIII drops TOD. So the devs want the pugs to have a chance to succeed even if they don't know the quest.

[DeafeningWhisper]

When learning to heal you have 3 main phases:

Miss healing, you calculate wrongly when to heal someone and they die.

Over healing, you discover meta magics and stat using them all the time healing for far more then needed or with a higher lvl of spell then required.

Under healing, you face higher lvl content with fewer shrines and start using you blue bar with too much care and heal for less then what you should.

All 3 lead to wasting sp, either by wasting sp on trying to heal a corpse, wasting it by healing for too much or having to heal too often. The point of the game is to heal someone for just a few hit points bellow their max, that way you waste no sp and they top themselves off with your aura or a pot or 2.

Around lvl 9 turn Empowered Healing on and keep it that way, the additional healing you get from it makes healing that much efficient since you can drop to lower lvl spells which will heal for more for less sp. of course you need to relearn "miss healing" since you suddenly heal for a lot more.

Healing Shroud, do not use Heal Mass it's too slow and the animation can get you killed trying to dodge blades. Use Cure Mass Moderate and Cure Mass Serious with Maximize on (if you have Cove dagger you can do so for free for a period) or Empowered Spell (remember always have Empowered Healing On) if you don't have it.

Lastly if you haven't yet get a few stacks of Heal scrolls and at least third tier of Scroll Mastery.

Not having Empowered Healing on means you are not healing optimally, which is the only real way to make your blue bar last longer.

[LordMond63]

Was one of three healers (two Clerics, one FvS) in a Shroud last night.

I told myself that I was going to follow some of the excellent advice that has been dispensed here and do things such as Empower always on (except between fights of course), using more Mass Cures rather than just focusing on quickened Mass Heal, etc.

I did not have the opportunity to try it out in Part 4 because two sets of blades decided that they wanted to pulp the Cleric standing all the way over there by himself.

However, in Part 5, I was able to do so and it did make a difference. We had a good, solid group which made me loosen up a bit on the healing, knowing that things weren't likely to go bad. Summary: a successful run, no deaths (well...OK...one death...grrr) and I did feel a good bit more effective.

So let's add a fourth criteria to learning how to be an effective healer: gauging the capability of the party and deciding whether it's going to be a one-rounder, two-rounder, three-rounder or more and using your sp appropriately. Call it Clerical Darwinism I guess.

On the belt- Orien doesn't see all that many runs out there sadly so the opportunities to get one are rather limited. Still, it's a goal to aspire to and I thank you for the suggestion.

On the topic of crafting- not to take the thread off in an only slighlty-related tangent but crafting in DDO is probably the least-utilized major content rollout in a game I've ever seen. I crafted in EQ, EQ2, DAoC, WoW and LotRO, with varying degrees of enthusiasm (EQ2 crafting was craptacular), but I've had absolutely zero interest in doing so here. I've seen a bare handful of crafted items on the AH and the prices are ridiculous (coming from the persepctive of someone who doesn't know firsthand how difficult it is to gain skill). In other games, talented craftsmen were able to make a pretty good living from advertising and selling what they made. That sure doesn't seem the case here, so I wonder how realistic a Sup Dev IX would be.

[Infant]

Hi LordMond,

I thought I would chime in with my advice.

I did not have the opportunity to try it out in Part 4 because two sets of blades decided that they wanted to pulp the Cleric standing all the way over there by himself.

Ok, this is a matter of positioning . If you are not in melee, you should be able to easily avoid being hit by circling blades, always (except for lag, of course ).

-- About Empower Healing: With RS II, its 75% boost for 10 Spell points. Best Metamagic for healing. The only one to affect Heal and Mass Heal. Also affects Bursts and Aura. The benefit covers the cost for almost all healing spells. Use it, always.

-- Sup Ardor VI: Easy to obtain as gen. loot. Affects Heal, MCM, MCL and Bursts.

-- Maximize/Empower: I took these on my Battlecleric for DP, BB and Bursts only. With metas and clickies my Radiant burst Heals for about 150-200 HP. And I am not well geared. I am sure there are excellent clerics out there who reach higher numbers.

-- Shroud Healing: I guess solo-healing full 3 rounds can be difficult if you are undergeared. I certainly couldn't do this. If your group needs 3 rounds in normal pt. 4, something is wrong. If I want to go conservative on my SP, I use Quickened Mass Heal and Bursts only. MCM in emergency. I find Maximized+Emp Healend MCM and MCL too SP-inefficient.

Also I try to enter the Harry fight with FULL SP bar. I buff FoM, Fire Res. and Hero's Feast before shrining in pt 3. AFAIK, you don't need any other buffs in pt 4. I heal all blade damage with aura or Heal scrolls (rank II in mastery).

Infant

[LordMond63]

As always, I does appreciate the advice.

Ok, this is a matter of positioning . If you are not in melee, you should be able to easily avoid being hit by circling blades, always (except for lag, of course ).

I agree totally. In fact, I was retreating to a (perceived to be) safer spot when I ran into the Blender (or, rather, it ran into me). General consensus is that the blades spawn when a devil is killed and aggro on the person who killed the devil. Some have said that this is not necessarily the case and that the aggro can be random. From the perspective of someone who has run perhaps 20 Shrouds since U12 (including non-successful ones though I point out that the failure has always been in part 4), I had thought that the first scenario was accurate; now I am not so sure.

-- Shroud Healing: I guess solo-healing full 3 rounds can be difficult if you are undergeared. I certainly couldn't do this. If your group needs 3 rounds in normal pt. 4, something is wrong. If I want to go conservative on my SP, I use Quickened Mass Heal and Bursts only. MCM in emergency. I find Maximized+Emp Healend MCM and MCL too SP-inefficient.

I think the groups that I'm in are still trying to figure out that "perfect compostion". It does seem like the easier runs involve much more ranged dps (Arcanes and ranger/artificiers/rogues/FvS) combat, with melee there pretty much only to keep Harry corralled. I'm seeing 5 melee/4 casters/ranged/3 healers as being very effective.

In the failed run I mentioned above, we had one very lonely Sorceror as our only Arcane, with the rest of the part being very melee-heavy (think we had 6 or 7 up-close types, maybe a ranger with bow, 3 healers and a Bard). On the bright side, part 1 was a BREEZE.

The thought of using bursts had not occurred to me because I am well back from the melees and use the aura to keep the other at-range folks up. I might have to rethink this if it is as effective as you say because that would be the equivalent of a MCM or even MCC with zero sp expended.

[grodon9999]

Barbarians should be striving for 20% heal amp and 30% heal amp effects on their gear. They can easily obtain that while still wearing the best in slot items. If they're warforged, just let them die and heal whoever has aggro.
.

Thanks for the new sig!

[Infant]

As always, I does appreciate the advice.
I agree totally. In fact, I was retreating to a (perceived to be) safer spot when I ran into the Blender (or, rather, it ran into me). General consensus is that the blades spawn when a devil is killed and aggro on the person who killed the devil. Some have said that this is not necessarily the case and that the aggro can be random.

I am not sure about random blade aggro. If I don't trust the group till pt. 4, I just stay far away out of melee during devil phase and scroll heal.

I think the groups that I'm in are still trying to figure out that "perfect compostion". It does seem like the easier runs involve much more ranged dps (Arcanes and ranger/artificiers/rogues/FvS) combat, with melee there pretty much only to keep Harry corralled. I'm seeing 5 melee/4 casters/ranged/3 healers as being very effective.

In the failed run I mentioned above, we had one very lonely Sorceror as our only Arcane, with the rest of the part being very melee-heavy (think we had 6 or 7 up-close types, maybe a ranger with bow, 3 healers and a Bard). On the bright side, part 1 was a BREEZE.

It's much easier in groups with many ranged characters, of course. The biggest problem in melee-heavy groups on Khyber is that people refuse to pull out early and prefer to run through blades (or even fight through them). If the melees leave when the gap is large, they don't take a single hit from the blades. That makes an easy two-rounder. Many group leaders don't understand this or prefer to let the melees jump through several blade ticks and make healers waste their mana overhealing.

The thought of using bursts had not occurred to me because I am well back from the melees and use the aura to keep the other at-range folks up. I might have to rethink this if it is as effective as you say because that would be the equivalent of a MCM or even MCC with zero sp expended.

Only if you have enough hitpoints. Or high reflex save + coldshield (blocks 50% of meteor swarm fire damage). I find 500hp (w/o good Reflex saves or Coldshield) comfortable enough. Clonks are probably best for this. Going in with 400hp, getting a little lag and dieing (happened to me ) makes you feel stupid .


Infant

[LordMond63]

I am not sure about random blade aggro. If I don't trust the group till pt. 4, I just stay far away out of melee during devil phase and scroll heal.

Kinda goes with what I said about expecting the worst and not being disappointed when you get it.

It's much easier in groups with many ranged characters, of course. The biggest problem in melee-heavy groups on Khyber is that people refuse to pull out early and prefer to run through blades (or even fight through them). If the melees leave when the gap is large, they don't take a single hit from the blades. That makes an easy two-rounder. Many group leaders don't understand this or prefer to let the melees jump through several blade ticks and make healers waste their mana overhealing.

Could not agree with you more here.

We still seem to have a fixation of the 'perfect one-rounder' here and it forces casters- all casters- to expend a TON of sp in order to maximize damage and healing over the short amount of time between Harry's initial appearance and his going poof. I think that is players accepted the fact that, post-U12, two-rounders are the new 'perfect Shroud' then we'd all be better off.

Only if you have enough hitpoints. Or high reflex save + coldshield (blocks 50% of meteor swarm fire damage). I find 500hp (w/o good Reflex saves or Coldshield) comfortable enough. Clonks are probably best for this. Going in with 400hp, getting a little lag and dieing (happened to me ) makes you feel stupid .

Infant

I'm in the mid-400s as far as hit points but have the reflexes of an overweight rhinosceros with bad knees, so staying at a distance is going to work best for me. I could still use the burst for healing others who stay at range though, so it's not at all a bad suggestion.

[dopey69]

/signed great idea !

[gloopygloop]

The real issue is that your Heal is hitting for 300 instead of, say, a conservative 564, on a zero-healing-amp target.

If that 700-HP Barb can manage to find 20% healing amp on his own, that Heal will take him from almost empty to full no problem.

(And with the addition of Alchemical Weapons, Mass Heal just got crazy: 731 points on a zero-healing-amp target!)

I really don't see the need you are seeing.

Heal 10 HP per level, max 15 =150
* 1.5 Empower Healing
* (1 + .4 Life Magic + .5 Superior Potency VI)
Total "standard" Heal = 428

Heal 10 HP per level, max 15 =150
* 1.5 Empower Healing
* (1 + .4 Life Magic + .75 Superior Ardor VI or higher)
Total "Superior Ardor" Heal = 484

Where are you getting a "conservative" 564 from? You can't count on critical heals because any crit will be massive overhealing that is wasted on any character and your heals need to be big enough to keep your party alive without crits or the characters who don't get a crit heal will die.

Remember that about half of the "healers" out there aren't Radiant Servants. If Clerics get a second PrE, then even fewer will be Radiant Servants.

[SirValentine]

Where are you getting a "conservative" 564 from?

OP is a Cleric, I believe, so boost up Empower Heal from 50% to 75%, and there's your 564.

Though even your 484 is still far more than the 300 the OP was mentioning.

Remember that about half of the "healers" out there aren't Radiant Servants. If Clerics get a second PrE, then even fewer will be Radiant Servants.

FvS have less powerful heals, yes, and I'm personally looking forward to more Clr PrEs. But for the moment, any Clr12+ should be a RS2; they are gimping themselves if they are not.

You can't count on critical heals because any crit will be massive overhealing that is wasted on any character and your heals need to be big enough to keep your party alive without crits or the characters who don't get a crit heal will die.

Of course. Which is why I don't suggest wasting more than the minimum required AP on the healing crit enhancement lines.

[Angelus_dead]

To fill this "doughnut hole" in the healing line of spells, I would like to see a series of single-target and mass Healing Amplification spells introduced into the game. I'm thinking a single-target 10% amp level 4 spell, a single-target 20% amp level 6 and a single-target 40% healing amp level 8

DDO already has much too much healing amplification, and the last thing it needs is more of that.

Indeed, the kinds of spells they should look at introducing would be the opposite of that: spells which additively buff a character's maximum hitpoints, so that it becomes less likely you can refill him with just one spell.

So under best circumstances, we'd be talking about a 300 point single-target Heal

Where did you find a single-target Heal that was only 300? On someone who didn't have healing amp? But why didn't he have it...?

[LordMond63]

DDO already has much too much healing amplification, and the last thing it needs is more of that.

Indeed, the kinds of spells they should look at introducing would be the opposite of that: spells which additively buff a character's maximum hitpoints, so that it becomes less likely you can refill him with just one spell.

Seems like this would just exacerbate the problem.

If current healing is not consistently capable of refilling the hp bar of a 600 hp character, wouldn't it be even less capable of refilling the hp bar of a 900 point character, thus requiring the expenditure of even more sp and/or consumables?

Pleased talk me thru this one if you would.

Where did you find a single-target Heal that was only 300? On someone who didn't have healing amp? But why didn't he have it...?

Actually, I'm off a bit with that single-target Heal figure. It should be upped to about 340 or so.

I can't speak as to whether the target had or did not have healing amp, what amount and why he did or did not have it because the only time I can consistently gauge whether someone has healing amp is when they are within the radius of my healing aura and I see numbers consistently at 60/tick rather than 20-24/tick. I'd love to claim that I am getting crits that often but I'd be delusional if I did, so I'm guessing good heal amp on the part of those targets.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I like the idea of RS3 aura granting an increased healing amp effect... would be another way to ensure people dont run off

As for a spell to increase healing amp.. tricky one, though if it worked in a similar way to the artificer positive energy infusion works for HP (increase the target's amp while reducing the caster's) that could be quite an interesting one too.. would be very handy in raid situations especially for tanks, though now if that idea gets picked up i expect it'll probably be on the favoured soul healing PrE rather than the poor neglected clerics