Earth Savant Advice

[Lifespawn]

people strive for 1% more dps 15% is huge your also not taking into account the crit chance and multipliers which widens that gap.

15% less on a 1500 point polar ray is 1275 thats a 225 point difference looks like a big difference to me over the course of a boss fight 15-20 polar rays the boss dies much quicker and you use less sp because you deal more damage per shot.

80 sec chain casting polar ray we'll say base hit for 660 -15% is 561

13200 for the secondary ice spec

11220 for the non specced

thats just shy of 2000 points difference or 3 casts by the non specced to match the specced and thats not counting crits or multipliers when those get added in the gap jumps.

[tinyelvis]

This is absolutely a joke and a concrete example of so called "vets" demanding how other people play and build their toons in a narrow way to fit the vets own biases and needs. It's pretty repugnant. You're not going to reject a wizard because he is CC specced rather than DPS. Or are you? Let's be honest: unless you've filled your elite shroud with 11 other casters, you'd still have better boss DPS by taking that earth savant than another melee. There is no reason to reject a well played, well geared arcane from any shroud - no matter how much you disagree with how it is built.

I never said wouldn't take. I said they would have to occupy a pikers position. I have no issue with you playing any toon any way you like. You can build a barbarian and have him sling only shurikens if you like. However, if you plan to advise new players that this is just as sound a build as others then expect knowledgable folks to point out your shortcomings.

Perhaps I don't understand Earth sevants well enough. So, please enlighten me to the DPS you put out spec'd solely as acid against say Arritriekos in the shroud. If you can break 400 DPS, then I will apologize (though I doubt I would see that courtesy from you). I think this is what you call a put up or shut up moment.

[tinyelvis]

I did some quick calculations and oddly enough it seems if you plan on only specializing in one elemental enhancement line as an earth sevant that you would have higher DPS if you choose ice over acid. This even though acid spells get the sevant bonus and ice do not. The 26 die black dragon bolt for example just barely out DPS's a normal Polar Ray. This one notable exception to the rather poor DPS of other acid spells.

There are some things I do not quit understand though. For example, how many melfs can you stack at one time. If it is not stackable, the DPS of this single spell is horrid.

[Meat-Head]

I did some quick calculations and oddly enough it seems if you plan on only specializing in one elemental enhancement line as an earth sevant that you would have higher DPS if you choose ice over acid. This even though acid spells get the sevant bonus and ice do not. The 26 die black dragon bolt for example just barely out DPS's a normal Polar Ray. This one notable exception to the rather poor DPS of other acid spells.

There are some things I do not quit understand though. For example, how many melfs can you stack at one time. If it is not stackable, the DPS of this single spell is horrid.

I had heard that at least the SLA and the spell stack. Anyone confirm this? Other than that, I don't think a single melfs will stack with another other than refreshing the duration.

[AtomicMew]

people strive for 1% more dps 15% is huge your also not taking into account the crit chance and multipliers which widens that gap.

No, the gap remains at 15% regardless of how much crit is taken into acount. The absolute difference in DPS between 1 rank in cold/fire and 7 ranks in cold fire is approximately 40-60 DPS, according to even tinyelvis' numbers. This is not much more than the FvS archon does.

I never said wouldn't take. I said they would have to occupy a pikers position. I have no issue with you playing any toon any way you like. You can build a barbarian and have him sling only shurikens if you like. However, if you plan to advise new players that this is just as sound a build as others then expect knowledgable folks to point out your shortcomings.

Reformulating weasel words doesn't make them not weasel words. "Others say" "some people say" "according to vets" are all formulations of the same fallacy, an appeal to some vague and mysterious authority. Either name specific people or write an argument on its own merit.

Perhaps I don't understand Earth sevants well enough. So, please enlighten me to the DPS you put out spec'd solely as acid against say Arritriekos in the shroud. If you can break 400 DPS,

300-400 DPS is still far more than you'd get from a melee in shroud, due to blades gimping melee DPS. I don't understand how you can say an earth-specced savant is "piking" when you'd be doing similar damage boss DPS as most wizards, (except doing it much more efficiently SP wise) and having significantly better CC, trash DPS efficiency than most other sorcs.

...then I will apologize (though I doubt I would see that courtesy from you). I think this is what you call a put up or shut up moment.

No one ever argued that earth savants have the best boss DPS, or even 400 boss DPS. When you can admit that your calculations and numbers were wrong (twice) then you can talk about "putting up or shutting up." Until then,you are being rude and hypocritical.

[Lifespawn]

No, the gap remains at 15% regardless of how much crit is taken into acount. The absolute difference in DPS between 1 rank in cold/fire and 7 ranks in cold fire is approximately 40-60 DPS, according to even tinyelvis' numbers. This is not much more than the FvS archon does.


Reformulating weasel words doesn't make them not weasel words. "Others say" "some people say" "according to vets" are all formulations of the same fallacy, an appeal to some vague and mysterious authority. Either name specific people or write an argument on its own merit.

300-400 DPS is still far more than you'd get from a melee in shroud, due to blades gimping melee DPS. I don't understand how you can say an earth-specced savant is "piking" when you'd be doing similar damage boss DPS as most wizards, (except doing it much more efficiently SP wise) and having significantly better CC, trash DPS efficiency than most other sorcs.


No one ever argued that earth savants have the best boss DPS, or even 400 boss DPS. When you can admit that your calculations and numbers were wrong (twice) then you can talk about "putting up or shutting up." Until then,you are being rude and hypocritical.

no because having the points from spell penn enhancments and empower enhancments and such can be put instead into crit multi and % chance



i'm quite sure i described above how 15% makes a large difference even without crits.

[AtomicMew]

no because having the points from spell penn enhancments and empower enhancments and such can be put instead into crit multi and % chance



i'm quite sure i described above how 15% makes a large difference even without crits.

The 15% calculation is the difference between 7/1/1 ranks and 1/1/1 ranks. 7/1/1 was proposed not by me, but by others suggesting secondary specs. (If you want to suggest an alternative enhancement set, go ahead.) Adding crit gear does not change the 15%, since it is a multiplicative change.

The factual statement is that this 15% difference in a secondary line represents a ~40-60 DPS difference against bosses.

The opinion statement is that this difference is large. In my opinion, it is not.

[Lifespawn]

The 15% calculation is the difference between 7/1/1 ranks and 1/1/1 ranks. 7/1/1 was proposed not by me, but by others suggesting secondary specs. (If you want to suggest an alternative enhancement set, go ahead.) Adding crit gear does not change the 15%, since it is a multiplicative change.

The factual statement is that this 15% difference in a secondary line represents a ~40-60 DPS difference against bosses.

The opinion statement is that this difference is large. In my opinion, it is not.

how is 40-60 dps a small difference?

over the 80 second fight i described above taking the average of 50 over 80 seconds thats 4000 dps and thats just against a single mob.

[baii]

Why does trash dps matter?
The only DPS tat matters is boss DPS.

And not having enhancement ready to boost niac + elardir on any Sorc is just gimping yourself.

[MRMechMan]

I did some quick calculations and oddly enough it seems if you plan on only specializing in one elemental enhancement line as an earth sevant that you would have higher DPS if you choose ice over acid. This even though acid spells get the sevant bonus and ice do not. The 26 die black dragon bolt for example just barely out DPS's a normal Polar Ray. This one notable exception to the rather poor DPS of other acid spells.

There are some things I do not quit understand though. For example, how many melfs can you stack at one time. If it is not stackable, the DPS of this single spell is horrid.

I suppose I was playing devils advocate-I DO have a secondary element and that element is indeed cold. And I don't take the spell pen enhancements or feats.

I didn't go earth savant for the dps. If you go acid spec for raw single target dps you will be disappointed if you've played elec or cold spec at cap.

Not sure if earth savant is the shuriken barb though...it's more comparing the Epic Antique Gaxe to the ESoS...and the Eantique user has a 45-50 stun DC (aka earthgrab). Sure the ESoS does more raw damage, but the EAntique breaks DR (Acid spells versitility) and is still a viable DPS weapon.

Do you kick barbs for using anything but Epic Sword of Shadows?

Do you kick people in harbor for not using Maelstrom or carnifex or Risia-ed keen pure good falchions?

You can complete any quest in the game with top DPS. You can complete any quest in the game with top DPS minus 15%.

Yes, I brought up the issue of pots...but you stated that you go up to a group of mobs and cast several maxed emped AOEs in a row till they are dead. You also stated that you don't bother gathering up mobs beforehand. I don't see how it is possible to sustain this playstyle. Efficiency of SP usage matters at least a little, EVEN for a sorc. There are some times when it's good to go full Rtard sorc dps...there are many, many times where it's not possible or smart. Try soloing an epic with this playstyle and see how far you get...

And as for melfs SLA? THe ability to deal several hundred unsavable damage to a target for 5sp is awesome. It's not best DPS, but being able to hit a mob and run away KNOWING it will die is pretty satisfying

And as for your earlier post, perhaps you didn't MEAN to sound insulting, but that is exactly what you came off as.

No one has ever finished a post with "I didn't mean to sound insulting, but..." and NOT sounded insulting. The fact that you mentioned it IN your actual post means you knew it sounded insulting and didn't edit or change it.

I've played every type of savant to cap and at cap. I am well aware the the incredible raw DPS that a sorc can put out. I'm not that guy who only uses SLAs and finishes the quest with 60% sp. There is no need to belittle me based on the fact that I enjoy earth savant.

[tinyelvis]

I had heard that at least the SLA and the spell stack. Anyone confirm this? Other than that, I don't think a single melfs will stack with another other than refreshing the duration.

That is what I suspect too. This is troublesome and leads to wasted spell points unless you are very disciplined with your spell chains. For example, a melfs has a duration of like 12 seconds but the spell will refresh in less than 2 seconds. It is very easy to waste spell points recasting too soon.

A single element spec'd sorcerer is not going to put out enough damage to warrant taking up a DPS spot in a group during end game play. You certainly can pull off CC. However, most folks would rather take a wizard for that. My enchantment spec'd sorc is a water with acid and electric secondary spec. You certainly can be a CC sorc and still pull off a DPS if you desire, in fact, that is what makes you more favorable than a wiz in some quests (i.e. epic chrono)

IF you insist on spec'n just one element with your acid sevant, ice would be the best all around choice.

I plan on playing an earth sevant soon. I like the idea that they have a good no save ray attack SLA (melfs). I also like the ability to support my High DPS spells (DBF and Freezing sphere) with the additional damage of acid rain and acid blast. I will spec fully in acid, fire, and ice damage. However, after investigating in detail the acid spell list, I think that I will make ice my main specialization (not acid), and spec the crit line in only ice fully.

I disagree with folks concerning the DPS capability of the earth sevant. It seems just fine to me so long as you dont hamstring yourself. Trash killing will be better and boss DPS only slightly less.