Best Race Question

[Tequila]

Greetings all,

I'm returning to the game after being gone awhile and there have been quite a few new changes. One of them are the new races that have been added, very nice btw and also the new classes Favored Soul and Artificers, also nice.

But here's my question: If you were rolling an Artificer and a Favored Soul which would be the best race/class combo in your opinion. I prefer,..let me put up my Gallagher shield , Halflings, but I want to try out the new races as well.

Just curious on everyones opinions, thoughts, inputs, complaints and quirks on these two new classes and the races you would pair up with them and why.

[Jsbeer]

Well for FvS, Warforged are considered to be the best (for solo at least), but for Artis Warforged, Human and Half-elf all have their advantages.

[Splatterfart]

Well for FvS, Warforged are considered to be the best (for solo at least), but for Artis Warforged, Human and Half-elf all have their advantages.

/Disagree
The human Evoker FvS has come ahead to trump pretty much every other divine caster in the game currently for overall gameplay. There will always be a specialized build that can beat it here and there naturaly. There's nothing wrong with a warforged favored soul whatsoever, but human evokers have become the Gold Standard for the class. In general any well played/built cleric OR favored soul can perform the class's duties with an acceptable level of effectiveness.

Warforged is arguably the "best" option for artificer due to the fact that you are able to self-heal most efficiently. That's not to say that they're the ONLY good option, however. Humans pick up the extra feat, skill points, and the option of Human Adaptability.

[NaturalHazard]

/Disagree
The human Evoker FvS has come ahead to trump pretty much every other divine caster in the game currently for overall gameplay. There will always be a specialized build that can beat it here and there naturaly. There's nothing wrong with a warforged favored soul whatsoever, but human evokers have become the Gold Standard for the class. In general any well played/built cleric OR favored soul can perform the class's duties with an acceptable level of effectiveness.

Warforged is arguably the "best" option for artificer due to the fact that you are able to self-heal most efficiently. That's not to say that they're the ONLY good option, however. Humans pick up the extra feat, skill points, and the option of Human Adaptability.

I like human evokers especially when im on my spellsinger and its a quest that involves SP endurance. Warforged sure I can give a 10% discount to spells but missing out on the vigor kinda sucks.

[DaSawks]

/Disagree
The human Evoker FvS has come ahead to trump pretty much every other divine caster in the game currently for overall gameplay. There will always be a specialized build that can beat it here and there naturaly. There's nothing wrong with a warforged favored soul whatsoever, but human evokers have become the Gold Standard for the class. In general any well played/built cleric OR favored soul can perform the class's duties with an acceptable level of effectiveness.

Warforged is arguably the "best" option for artificer due to the fact that you are able to self-heal most efficiently. That's not to say that they're the ONLY good option, however. Humans pick up the extra feat, skill points, and the option of Human Adaptability.

I agree that human FVS evoker is really really nice. I like my WF LOTB FVS AOV build better though. The one difference is I can whip out one of my Greensteel Greatswords and "go to town" with it. I can self tank every boss in the game. I can heal any RAID group. I can solo every Amarath quest with kite/BB and cometfall. A human evoker might heal better or kite/BB faster but the Greatsword imho tips the scale in favor of the WF.

[Diyon]

I can self tank every boss in the game.

If by self tank, you mean heal yourself alone and tank, I might have to question this on at least a few cases.

[DaSawks]

If by self tank, you mean heal yourself alone and tank, I might have to question this on at least a few cases.

That is what I am refering to. I am not saying I can grind down an endgame raid boss all by myself while the other 11 stand around piking. I can and have pulled aggro, beat on while self healing. Healing amp DT w/ 10%, 20% and GreenSteel greatsword +++ w/30%. finger necklace. Quicken. 550 hp. 2400 sp. Not the best tank but it can be done if needed.

[Viisari]

Well for FvS, Warforged are considered to be the best (for solo at least), but for Artis Warforged, Human and Half-elf all have their advantages.

Human Evoker Favored Soul is pretty much the most powerful class/race combination you can have in this game. Necro wizards are either a bit better in general or tied with them.

[unbongwah]

This isn't comprehensive, just a few thoughts on Artificers:

• Human: pros - extra feat, Making DMs make them better crafters; cons - no bonuses to DEX or INT.
• WF: pros - self-repairing, usual WF immunities etc.; cons - again, no bonuses to DEX or INT.
• halfling: pros - +2 DEX, can take healing DMs for more self-sufficiency; cons - -2 STR.
• drow: pros - +2 DEX & INT; cons - -2 CON.

That said, you can make any race work as an arty if you're not too concerned about minmaxing.

[Emili]

This isn't comprehensive, just a few thoughts on Artificers:

[LIST][*]Human: pros - extra feat, Making DMs make them better crafters; cons - no bonuses to DEX or INT.

That's not exactly correct .... humans can add a +1 to two different stats is possibe in attaining max INT and decent DEX - is not like anyone goes Dex crazy anyway... as long as ya hit 19 with a tome you're fine, Helves can add +1 in enhancements to three stats depending on the deli.

Note above... Mine came from an aul Ranger (tempest actually) - TR'd so decided like an AA was going to head towards ranged aspects (Helf is the best AA and so come Arty crossbows likewise the brutal ranged).

Helf seem to be more versitile for Arty than a human (outside of a crafting one) Ya see a delittaunte opens up a +1 in some other stat depending on the Deli... and they have all the other enhancements available to a human... So is like this

Feat and 23 skill points (human) vs Delittaunt feat + more enhancement options (Helf)

Artificer is not so highly Feat starved unless you were thinking dragon marks... but then again am a working girl - I quest. So Ranged was my prime choice in her build with some healing and casting on the side...

So I went helf with the rogue deli adding in human adaptability +1 con, greater +1 int and the helf rogue deli enhancements of +1 dex + 3d6 SA damages... is no reason not to max scroll mastery and Arty's are the epitome of UMD puls since they're swimming in skill points due to bubbling up INT... INT is the prime stat followed closely by Con and Dex, BUT a reasonable Cha helps to keep UmD up without too much item investment... we deffo like to layer on more damage and survival items vs depending on a skill item on to cast a scroll ...

Aritficers ranged attacks are often based off INT not DEX anyway ... the spells allow for such, Adding INT mod to Damage or Attack... still a reasonable to-hit is always had and easily attained off either stat in such a ranged toon... so dex is treated as a secondary - which it should be even on a ranger - where the prime is str... you do not need bleedin' 40 dex to hit things with a ranged weapon for some reason is not like melee toons. Improved precise Shot (Dex 19) as long as you start at 17 with a +2 tome or 16 with a +3 you're set.

Took the idea's from my esperience with the many rangers I've had and place Int where Str normally be.

I've played around enough with them to say if ya want a good spell casting or ranged ARTY for me the helf worked out better than a human. I wanted a high output range arty ... I pretty much got one...

Any Arty self heal fine off this, can toss heal scrolls on her for just under 400hp a pop or if under pressure that much I toss a potion on the ground ... a csw potion "TOSSED not drinking" heals her for 100 to just under 200hp.

Some people suggested construct essence as a feat ... but why? When I worked it out the numbers... always came up better not... first am not going to splurge on enhancing recon when scroll mastery covers enough ... Plus HEAL amp (enhancements or items) do not affect recon/repair, only Heals and cures... from my Bards and Clerics I know is often the better WF have healer friend and some AMP and you can heal them more with a heal scroll or spell far better than ya can a recon scroll or spell - only place recon is decent be on a WF wiz or a WF tanking Sulu. So if I were only planning to heal WF and my dog maybe I'd enhance recon/repairs. For now enhancements and item placement too thin...

I'll most likely tweak her around at some point but for now she's a lot of fun... She ranges very well, good damage output, rips thru eLoB pillars can help heal the tank... I like to test and play with the enhancements see what's worth it... below is her current arrangement just as a reference.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Misbehaven In The Night
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Artificer) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 1226 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 15
Will: 12

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength              8                 10                   10
Dexterity            17                 19                   20
Constitution         16                 19                   20
Intelligence         16                 24                   28
Wisdom                8                 10                   10
Charisma              8                 10                   10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                    11
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         5                    28
Diplomacy            -1                     1
Disable Device        7                    33
Haggle               -1                     2
Heal                 -1                     1
Hide                  3                     6
Intimidate           -1                     1
Jump                  0                    12
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         3                     6
Open Lock             7                    29
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                3                    10
Search                7                    33
Spot                  3                    24
Swim                 -1                     1
Tumble                4                    16
Use Magic Device      3                    24

Level 1 (Artificer)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Artificer)


Level 3 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 4 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Precise Shot


Level 5 (Artificer)


Level 6 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning


Level 7 (Artificer)


Level 8 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Rapid Shot


Level 9 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Artificer)


Level 11 (Artificer)


Level 12 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 13 (Artificer)


Level 14 (Artificer)


Level 15 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 16 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 17 (Artificer)


Level 18 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Empowered Spell


Level 19 (Artificer)


Level 20 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost II Needed for Battle master PrE
Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Attack I
Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Attack II
Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Damage I
Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Damage II
Enhancement: Artificer Improved Rune Arm Use I
Enhancement: Artificer Improved Rune Arm Use II
Enhancement: Artificer Improved Rune Arm Use III
Enhancement: Artificer Battle Engineer I
Enhancement: Artificer Rune Arm Overcharge I
Enhancement: Artificer Rune Arm Overcharge II
Enhancement: Uncaring Master Do not lose sleep over my pet dying
Enhancement: Arcane Empowerment
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I Opens racial toughness III
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Intelligence I Int is my damage mod and sp
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I We be stacking this with items for easy healing
Enhancement: Human Versatility I Would like II when I get my UmD stable
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III 
Enhancement: Improved Use Magic Device I Tempt 'til some epic gear
Enhancement: Artificer Energy of Creation I
Enhancement: Artificer Energy of Creation II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Rogue Dexterity I Balanced til +3 tome
Enhancement: Artificer Intelligence I
Enhancement: Artificer Intelligence II
Enhancement: Artificer Intelligence III
Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery IV  Along with class granted abilities becomes the best scroll use in game.

Skills - Arty's have a lot of skill points UmD, DD, Search, Spot, OL, Concentration, Jump and course a point in Tumble - then ya have some to spare, one guildie be asking me what to put points in as he's an over-abundance and really comes down to taste... Jump is important (they seem to run and jump like clerics - so I max that) Dunno why either but I max'd tumble just to tumble 'round like a frog at times ... could have easily covered either bluff or diplo with it.

Arty's really are not so squishy either... they breach the 500hp mark - like mine when dressed up, boat buffed (buffed up am mid 500), and while not some 700hp like a melee ... they do not need to be in that realm as they deal damage from a slight distance. They are among the strongest in utility and buffing ... they are arguably one of the best healers in group and come UmD and Clickie use saddens me that my bards play second fiddle...

That is what I am refering to. I am not saying I can grind down an endgame raid boss all by myself while the other 11 stand around piking. I can and have pulled aggro, beat on while self healing. Healing amp DT w/ 10%, 20% and GreenSteel greatsword +++ w/30%. finger necklace. Quicken. 550 hp. 2400 sp. Not the best tank but it can be done if needed.

In a dirt poor pug... but you're correct some FVS can tank end-game well... but geared for geared at level eLoB's, Elite Horoths ... best have some leways. Healing amps, Hate and Intim along with high HP thresholds win those... healing scrolls landing for 440-660 on the tank.

eSoS for a melee FvS and if so multi-TR'd Horc... my reasoning? Will surpass DPS output of the wf with the given weapon, will heal up better, the WF immunities far more tivial on the FvS class and the HP difference sopped up by the TR build points. Comes to casting ... the Human FvS does better due feat space and DC.

[Aashrym]

Arty's really are not so squishy either... they breach the 500hp mark - like mine when dressed up, and while not some 700hp like a melee ... they do not need to be in that realm as they deal damage from a slight distance. They are among the strongest in utility and buffing ... they are arguably one of the best healers in group and come UmD and Clickie use saddens me that my bards play second fiddle...

Your arti is very similar to mine. I'm very much a fan of rogue dilettante helf.

[Emili]

Your arti is very similar to mine. I'm very much a fan of rogue dilettante helf.

A dile feat(1d6 SA) along with 6ap for (2d6 more SA) grants 10,5 SA damage (tripled increase) and 2ap for +1 dex whats not to like?

Unless really hurting to spec in a general feat, dragonmark feat or past life feat there is no reason at all to be human over Helf (they have all the good human enhancements plus some elf - if wish to draw from that instead - and thier own enhancements).

[deahamlet]

I took half-elf and am very happy. Took Rogue Dil, I get access to both human and elf enhancements... Construct Essence+Quicken means I can self-heal.

[djsonar919]

You mean there are other races in this game, other than Warforged?

[k1ngp1n]

Greetings all,

I'm returning to the game after being gone awhile and there have been quite a few new changes. One of them are the new races that have been added, very nice btw and also the new classes Favored Soul and Artificers, also nice.

But here's my question: If you were rolling an Artificer and a Favored Soul which would be the best race/class combo in your opinion. I prefer,..let me put up my Gallagher shield , Halflings, but I want to try out the new races as well.

Just curious on everyones opinions, thoughts, inputs, complaints and quirks on these two new classes and the races you would pair up with them and why.

For FvS: Melee go WF or Horc THF, caster go human. 18 fvs/2 monk or 2 fighter is a bit outdated but still fun, if you're doing that elf TWF scimitars is a blast. Other blends tend the go human or helf. Dwarf is also an interesting choice as an evoker: it blends the high hp of a wf with the fleshiness of other races. Honestly its one of my favorites for FvS... except for elves which everyone knows are the true master race.

Artificer: WF is 'optimal,' helf and human still very, very strong.

[baii]

Human work(and not sub-optimal) for any class, idk why i brought WF and HO.

[Khayvan]

If you were rolling an Artificer and a Favored Soul which would be the best race/class combo in your opinion.

Warforged for both.

Soul - melee build, go pure for the DR at level 20, having 10-15 natural DR is pretty awesome. Solid 2nd tier melee damage, loads of HP and self-heals. Incredibly fun and survivable toon.

Arty - pure for the capstone. WF CON, HP bonus and immunities are a big help to a squishy class. Tossing quickened Reconstruct on yourself for full effect can't be beat when soloing.

[Diyon]

Something else for halfling arties:

That +2 dex makes qualifying for improved precise shot easier.

They get SA enhancements that go well with the class if using xbow heavily.

Hero's Companion can work on your dog.

The con of -2 STR is almost negligible if you are doing melee. Basically only worry about it for carrying stuff.

[goodspeed]

well if you wanted to go strictly by overall efficiency, id say war forged. A docent wearing self healing, basically enhanced stone skin, that on a mage makes you a no need for umd healer of yourself.

I can't stand the way they look but from self reliance it's all a win.

[voodoogroves]

WF are solid in a few roles.
Human remain solid across many.

Half elf and half orc though are pretty well on top for many (most?) options.