Human vs Helf

[Pape_27]

I'm getting ready to TR my wizzy back into a cleric. Have two builds in mind. Human or Helf.

I was planning on a human cleric. Like having the 2nd feat at creation. The plan, so far anyways, is to split my 2 skill points between umd and concentration. Maybe add to balance or jump or whatever if i decide to use a +2 int tome later on.

The second build I came up with is a Helf cleric. I started thinking (bad idea at times i know). The build will have enough points to qualify for several helf dilly's. I was thinking that If i went this route and took the sorc dilly (either at the beginning, but most likely feat swap into it later on) I would have access to repair, displace,ment, fireshield and tele scrolls etc.

Do I have that right? If I took the sorc dilly would I, in effect, be able to circumvent umd requirements for scrolls? Is it worth it to lose a feat? Thoughts and comments would be appreciated.

_

[Rusty_Can]

Do I have that right? If I took the sorc dilly would I, in effect, be able to circumvent umd requirements for scrolls?

Dilettante feat and its enhancements would allow your character to be considered a lvl 10 sorcerer; when trying to use scrolls, your character will perform Caster Level checks. Technically, "Dilettante: Wizard" feat would be better, since wizards get lvl 6 spells at lvl 11 (sorcerers do that at lvl 12), but I reckon that its requirement (13 INT) is not easily matched by divine casters.

As a side note, watch out for Arcane Spell Failure, especially if your cleric is the armored kind.

Is it worth it to lose a feat?

For some builds, dilettante feats can be very powerful. My Ninja Spy monk got the cleric feat and it helps a lot. For my evasion cleric I was planning to take the paladin feat, in order to improve saves.

[PNellesen]

For some builds, dilettante feats can be very powerful. My Ninja Spy monk got the cleric feat and it helps a lot. For my evasion cleric I was planning to take the paladin feat, in order to improve saves.

The guy in my sig has Fighter Dilettante, and I loved it for levelling up - good DCs on his spells, and still able to do decent damage in melee. I have a Ranger/Fighter/Rogue with Cleric dilettante as well, and I think it's a great feat to have for a melee who doesn't want to put a lot of skill points into UMD but still be able to use almost-no-fail Raise Dead and Heal scrolls when the sh*t hits the fan.

[decease]

imo

human - less powerful but look good

helf - very powerful but look..hmmm...very unique

[Emili]

imo

human - less powerful but look good

helf - very powerful but look..hmmm...very unique

My exact thoughts...

[Candela90]

It depends what u need. On e.g. sorcerer, rogue, or any feat-hungry class i think human is better. With skill points hungry class still human is better.

But my calculation looks like:

Human
+ 4 skill points
+ 1 feat

Elf
+ 3 dilletante
+ 1 immunte to sleep
- 999 look

U see what will win, right?

[sweez]

I like helf clerics for one reason alone - with paladin dilly you can actually have a semi-reasonable reflex save. Other than that, extra feat from going human wins.

[Galeria]

My helf cleric has the Sorc dillettante and it's very useful for extra charisma and using scrolls and wands like teleport and blur.

She does keep a cloth garment to change into before using wands and scrolls to avoid arcane spell failure. Well worth it, IMO.

[sweez]

My helf cleric has the Sorc dillettante and it's very useful for extra charisma and using scrolls and wands like teleport and blur.

Teleport scrolls are 36 UMD, blur scrolls are what, 24?

12 base cha (easily affordable on a 32-pointer unless you're going for a battlecleric or whatever, and even then you'll want cha for divine might)
06 cha item
02 cha tome
02 cha ship buff
02 cha yugo pot
02 cha enhancements (can be taken as prereq for RS)
------------------
26 easy cha = 8 cha mod, 9 if you make a swappable 2 exc cha tod ring

11 UMD base
08 cha mod
02 good luck
05 conc op item
04 GH
03 competence (crafted persuasion item, golden cartouche, bunny hat)
03 enhancement (ebigtop, cove trinket)
------------------
36 UMD, 37 with an exc cha 2 tod ring, trivial to acquire on a first life toon

Taking dillies on a cleric just for UMD purposes is completely pointless, you might as well just go human and waste a feat on SF: umd lol.

[Galeria]

We don't all have yugo pots and charisma ship buffs, sorry to say. My cleric made it to 20 without doing Amrath at all and I have no plans to run it. And my guild doesn't have every stat buff available.

I do really get tired of people pointing out every extreme under the sun that you have to get to make a certain number, then calling it "trivial," Trival for you, great. You have proven you are ubarz, we bow to you. Feel better?

Taking the sorc dilly is a great way for people who don't want to depend on a lot of situational buffs to use arcane spellcasting.

I really don't understand why some people enjoy being so negative, but if you enjoy it, I guess this is the best place for you. Have a nice day anyway.

[Candela90]

We don't all have yugo pots and charisma ship buffs, sorry to say. My cleric made it to 20 without doing Amrath at all and I have no plans to run it. And my guild doesn't have every stat buff available.

I do really get tired of people pointing out every extreme under the sun that you have to get to make a certain number, then calling it "trivial," Trival for you, great. You have proven you are ubarz, we bow to you. Feel better?

Taking the sorc dilly is a great way for people who don't want to depend on a lot of situational buffs to use arcane spellcasting.

I really don't understand why some people enjoy being so negative, but if you enjoy it, I guess this is the best place for you. Have a nice day anyway.

True is, that +2 ship buffs, yugo pots, and +2 tomes are easy available to most of players. Thats why people count it as a "for sure u have it".

The other thing are store pots, 1 minute pots, 5xabishai cookie, alchemical stats, +3/4 tomes - these u can play from years and never see one(+4 tome, t3 alchemical), and the others like abishai cookies and 1 min pots, are just riddiculous ( i mean who drink pot every 1 minute?)

[sweez]

True is, that +2 ship buffs, yugo pots, and +2 tomes are easy available to most of players. Thats why people count it as a "for sure u have it".

The other thing are store pots, 1 minute pots, 5xabishai cookie, alchemical stats, +3/4 tomes - these u can play from years and never see one(+4 tome, t3 alchemical), and the others like abishai cookies and 1 min pots, are just riddiculous ( i mean who drink pot every 1 minute?)

Are you also a dirty elitist ruining other people's immersion?

Look, you have helf, so that implies that you're vip or at least p2p with points to spare. So all that stuff should be pretty easy to acquire, you get a free +2 tome when your character gets to 1750 global favor for example (and well if you're p2p and you bought helves but not enough packs to get to 1750 favor easily, that's a bit silly isn't it?), +2 cha shrine is ship level 57 (fair enough if you're in a one-man guild or whatever, but that isn't exactly the usual situation is it now, and on Khyber even completely casual guilds have passed 57 long time ago). Yugo pots are easy to get on a divine, you should be able to solo most of amrath on hard, and well I can say that divines are always very coveted on elite amrath LFMs lol.

I didn't say 'getting enough UMD to no-fail heal scrolls on a barbarian is easy', which could be interpreted as elitist or whatever, I simply said that getting enough UMD to use blur/teleport scrolls on a divine is trivial (well unless you expect to be no-failing teleport scrolls as soon as you hit 20, but really what's so important about no-fail teleport scrolls, they work just fine with anything over 50% usability).

Thanks for stroking my ego I guess though

[Candela90]

Are you also a dirty elitist ruining other people's immersion?

Look, you have helf, so that implies that you're vip or at least p2p with points to spare. So all that stuff should be pretty easy to acquire, you get a free +2 tome when your character gets to 1750 global favor for example (and well if you're p2p and you bought helves but not enough packs to get to 1750 favor easily, that's a bit silly isn't it?), +2 cha shrine is ship level 57 (fair enough if you're in a one-man guild or whatever, but that isn't exactly the usual situation is it now, and on Khyber even completely casual guilds have passed 57 long time ago). Yugo pots are easy to get on a divine, you should be able to solo most of amrath on hard, and well I can say that divines are always very coveted on elite amrath LFMs lol.

I didn't say 'getting enough UMD to no-fail heal scrolls on a barbarian is easy', which could be interpreted as elitist or whatever, I simply said that getting enough UMD to use blur/teleport scrolls on a divine is trivial (well unless you expect to be no-failing teleport scrolls as soon as you hit 20, but really what's so important about no-fail teleport scrolls, they work just fine with anything over 50% usability).

Thanks for stroking my ego I guess though

And here ure wrong.
1) I play from around 3-4 months only.
2) While lvling I mostly dont do elites - i NEVER TRed any toon(but have plan to). Collecting xp on first life takes me even to 2 months.
3) I dont have helf. *( and dont want it... soooo ugly)
4) I bought epic packs and some to exp, but dont have all. Only 1 week ago i get to buy Delera - i earned it by playing.
4) +2 tomes i get easily not cause of favor. I just sell my epic s crolsl or FRDSes and thats how i get them. 1 FRDS = depends of how good deal is from 3 to 6 +2 tomes.
5) Packs I ave are earned via favor farming OR from my vip (bought vip once for 1 month, and got 1k TP)

So no... Im not uber-elitist player with epic gear, im casual player.
To be honest, i never played any game in my life besides ddo ;p. Never really was a game-type.

[Staffling]

In either case, Helf is an easy button for those who want to UMD only a select few spells and in the respect of the human, is like u have taken UMD focus. What can be concluded (hopefully) is that helf is superior to at least all other fleshies (with certain exceptions to horc)

[Dagolar]

I'm getting ready to TR my wizzy back into a cleric. Have two builds in mind. Human or Helf.

I was planning on a human cleric. Like having the 2nd feat at creation. The plan, so far anyways, is to split my 2 skill points between umd and concentration. Maybe add to balance or jump or whatever if i decide to use a +2 int tome later on.

The second build I came up with is a Helf cleric. I started thinking (bad idea at times i know). The build will have enough points to qualify for several helf dilly's. I was thinking that If i went this route and took the sorc dilly (either at the beginning, but most likely feat swap into it later on) I would have access to repair, displace,ment, fireshield and tele scrolls etc.

Do I have that right? If I took the sorc dilly would I, in effect, be able to circumvent umd requirements for scrolls? Is it worth it to lose a feat? Thoughts and comments would be appreciated.

_

Scrolling up, I honestly couldn't guess that this was the original topic.
Using Dil you ought be able to cast any spells that a caster of equal level to the one listed for that rank of Dil would be able to cast [via scrolls], hence avoiding the need for UMD checks.

From my experience playing clerics, I'd also note that that extra feat from Human can be quite useful.

So it's a decision between raw build focus and improved utility, as suits you.

[sirgog]

Clerics are usually really feat starved, IMO. Human works very well for that reason.

Assuming you are Wisdom-based and don't intend to melee much, you have the must-take feats (Toughness, Maximize, Empower Healing, Active Past Life: Wizard), the good feats (Extend, Empower, Evocation Focus, Greater Evocation Focus) and a series of other feats that are all useful but pretty easily cut (Necro Focus, Spell Penetration, Enchantment Focus, Mental Toughness, duplicate Toughnesses).

[voodoogroves]

Clerics are usually really feat starved, IMO. Human works very well for that reason.

Assuming you are Wisdom-based and don't intend to melee much, you have the must-take feats (Toughness, Maximize, Empower Healing, Active Past Life: Wizard), the good feats (Extend, Empower, Evocation Focus, Greater Evocation Focus) and a series of other feats that are all useful but pretty easily cut (Necro Focus, Spell Penetration, Enchantment Focus, Mental Toughness, duplicate Toughnesses).

And Quicken. Interrupted heals suck.