Ideas for upgrading Divine Vengeance/Vengeful Protector

[sephiroth1084]

I think that, ideally, the DV should offer some bonuses for various tiers of paladin levels, paladin PrEs and the capstone, and should be upgradeable to become the best-in-slot 1-hander for a pure paladin.

As far as upgrading goes, I'd imagine that it would require, say, 5 Large Devil Scales, 9 Trophies of War, 10 Epic Raid Tokens and something else...something on-theme and requiring players to tackle tough, high-level content. Maybe a Seal of the Abbot? A Martial Cannith Cell? A Refined Spirit of whatever? I'd rather not generate new items that drop in stuff like Elite Tower just to upgrade this thing. Perhaps, add a named item to the Epic Chrono end chest that is useful for everyone, and required in the upgrade ritual for the sword?

As for the effects, I'm thinking:
Base sword, is a normal +5 cold iron longsword

Paladin 6 adds

• Holy
• Axiomatic
• SR 20
• Smite Evil recharge reduction of 5 seconds

Paladin 12 adds

• Holy Burst
• Axiomatic Burst
• SR 25
• Smite Evil recharge reduction of 10 seconds

Paladin 18 adds

• SR 30
• base damage increase to 2d8
• Smite Evil recharge reduction of 15 seconds

Capstone adds

• SR 35
• x3 crit multiplier
• Smite Evil recharge reduction of 20 seconds
• Radiance
• +1 to paladin auras (AC, saves, Concentration, Fear)
• Greater Dispelling (only dispels buffs; does not remove our debuffs/DoTs)

Epic Upgrade adds

• +6 enhancement bonus
• 3d8 base damage
• SR 40
• Smite Evil recharge reduction of 25 seconds
• Evil Bane (+2 enhancement, +2d6 vs. evil creatures)
• Chaos Bane (+2 enhancement, +2d6 vs. chaotic creatures)
• Radiant Blast (as on Epic Wraps of Endless Light)
• Red slot

Defender of Siberys adds

• Tier I - 5% incite; count as 2 levels higher for LoH damage
• Tier II - 10% incite; count as 4 levels higher for LoH damage
• Tier III - 15% incite; count as 6 levels higher for LoH damage; Recharge 1 Lay On Hands per 2 minutes

Knight of the Chalice adds

• Tier I - Smite Evil Recharge reduction by 5 seconds; count as 2 levels higher for smite damage
• Tier II - Smite Evil Recharge reduction by 10 seconds; count as 4 levels higher for smite damage
• Tier III - Smite Evil Recharge reduction by 15 seconds; count as 6 levels higher for smite damage; Outsiders struck by smite must make Will save or be banished, DC = 30+Cha (creatures immune to banishment take extra 150 damage)

Hunter of the Dead adds

• Tier I - +5% Healing Amp; recharge Remove Disease 1/minute
• Tier II - +10% Healing Amp; recharge Turn Undead 1/minute
• Tier III - +15% Healing Amp; Undead struck by smite must make Will save or be destroyed, DC = 30 + Cha (creatures immune to disruption take extra 150 damage), weapon gains Greater Undead Bane

[sephiroth1084]

I'm happy with this shield not being tied to paladin levels at all, and being a pretty good shield for anyone, but would like it to both be upgradeable to epic, and gain a set bonus when equipped with the Divine Vengeance.

Epic Upgrade adds

• 4 base shield bonus (up from 2) [I think all epic shields need to be boosted a bit]
• +6 enhancement
• Blue slot
• Purple slot
• DR 15 (up from 11)
• Negative Energy Absorption 20%

Set Bonus adds

• Dodge +4
• Healer's Bounty

[sephiroth1084]

Seeker +6 and Improved Critical assumed on all.
Base damage is starting from +5 enhancement on weapon, +15 from Str and miscellaneous buffs. Weapons that get a higher enhancement bonus will have that figured into the calculations, but will still be listed at the given base to keep things uniform (for example, the DV would get +1 from being a +6 weapon, and another +2 from Evil Bane).
Radiant Blast set to 1% proc for 382 average (DDOwiki figures)
Disintegration set to 2% for 460 average (ditto)

Divine Vengeance
35 base damage vs. Evil 95.65
35 base damage vs. Chaotic Evil 114.45

60 base damage vs. Evil 129.4
60 base damage vs. Chaotic Evil 148.2

(Glancing blows figured in in this color assuming GTHF, and using average weapon damage)
Epic Chimera's Fang (w/ Dragonmarks)
35 base damage 75.32 94.445
60 base damage 104.07 132.57

Epic Brigand's Cutlass
35 base damage 74.05
60 base damage 105.3


(2-handers will have stats adjusted up for 1.5x Str and 2x PA)
Epic Antique Greataxe
35 base damage 82.7 107.637
60 base damage 111.45 146.762

Epic Sword of Shadows
35 base damage 120.88 142.442
60 base damage 159.63 181.192

[Havok.cry]

Did your efang calculations include glancing blow procs?

[sephiroth1084]

Did your efang calculations include glancing blow procs?

Oops! I knew those figures seemed too low.

Procs would be 20% without feats on 2 attacks per chain, right? So (base*0.2)*0.5?
With all 3 feats, 50% on 3 attacks, so (base*0.5)*0.75?

Also, I can't find a new image of the eFang, but doesn't it also have some special proc effect with a shield? Not sure I want to bother calculating that. Also, there's the issue with the fact that the Divine Vengeance can be dual-wielded effectively.

[sephiroth1084]

Okay, those figures look a lot more reasonable.

The eFang could probably use a further slight upgrade I'd imagine, and unless I'm wrong, the EAG could still use a bump as well, but I think Divine Vengeance looks to be in about the right place against Chaotic Evil monsters with all the stuff I have tacked onto it. Could stand to have its damage dialed back a tiny bit to account for the fact that it's doing a lot more than simply providing DPS.

I'd say ditch Radiant Blast as a start there.

[Xenostrata]

I'd still like a THF version, please

Also, maybe have the epic sword upgrade be seperate from the tiering - so that an 18/2 monk splash could upgrade the sword to epic is well, but not get as much.

[sephiroth1084]

I'd still like a THF version, please

Also, maybe have the epic sword upgrade be seperate from the tiering - so that an 18/2 monk splash could upgrade the sword to epic is well, but not get as much.

A THF version would be good. Let's see what Barrage has to say about that...say, a greatsword with x3 multiplier and 4d6 base damage.

60 base damage vs. Evil = 179.65
60 base damage vs. CE = 191.85

Both of those with glancing blows figured in.

Seems pretty reasonable for this to be a little behind the ESoS vs. evil, non-chaotic monsters, and a bit better vs. Chaotic Evil stuff, though again, could probably stand to get dialed back a bit to account for all of its other goodies.

Hm...could do that, but I have no idea how to structure that. Maybe making it epic could add +6 enhancement, a red slot, and bump your effect up one tier, so the 6 paladin would get the 12 sword, the 12 the 18, the 18 the capstone, and the capstone the full epic version?

[Xenostrata]

A THF version would be good. Let's see what Barrage has to say about that...say, a greatsword with x3 multiplier and 4d6 base damage.

60 base damage vs. Evil = 179.65
60 base damage vs. CE = 191.85

Both of those with glancing blows figured in.

Seems pretty reasonable for this to be a little behind the ESoS vs. evil, non-chaotic monsters, and a bit better vs. Chaotic Evil stuff, though again, could probably stand to get dialed back a bit to account for all of its other goodies.

Hm...could do that, but I have no idea how to structure that. Maybe making it epic could add +6 enhancement, a red slot, and bump your effect up one tier, so the 6 paladin would get the 12 sword, the 12 the 18, the 18 the capstone, and the capstone the full epic version?

I like it.

I do, however, think you are overthinking my suggestion - making an epic version should be restricted to the top tiers, and I would be totally ok with it only applying to pures and 18/2 splashes. Not that there are a plethora of 12 paladin builds out there.

[incineration]

as far as 18/2 splits, why not just make it so that it goes up a tier with each one? that would put the 18/2 at the level 20 variant, and the pure at the epic variant but keep some things always on the epic - base damage increase and +6 enhancement bonus

[Angelus_dead]

I think that, ideally, the DV should offer some bonuses for various tiers of paladin levels, paladin PrEs and the capstone, and should be upgradeable to become the best-in-slot 1-hander for a pure paladin.

What exactly does it do now, in terms of dispelling?

[sephiroth1084]

What exactly does it do now, in terms of dispelling?

In terms of dispelling? Apparently it removes debuffs and DoTs, making using it strictly detrimental in many situations.

The stats for the sword now are:
+5 Cold Iron longsword
1d8, 19-20/x2
Holy Burst
Axiomatic Burst
Radiance
Greater Dispelling
SR 35

[sephiroth1084]

There needs to be a stone of change ritual to combine 2 of these into a single greatsword. Base stats would upgrade similarly to the longsword version, ending up at 4d6 probably.


Also, was thinking that, as a way to make this slightly more attractive to the general populace, paladin past lives could count toward unlocking effects on this.

Each past life (passive or purchasable) would add 6 to your effective paladin level for the sword, so a pure fighter with 1 paladin life would get the level 6 version, while a 6 paladin/14 whatever, with 2 paladin lives would gain the level 18 version. The level 20 version would remain exclusive to pure paladins I think. That, or 3 past lives + the feat would result in the pure paladin version.

[sephiroth1084]

Anyone care to weigh in with their opinion on some of this stuff?

[sephiroth1084]

Looking at what I have here, I'm thinking that some of the paladin-specific abilities could become enhancement lines instead, if paladins had their AP costs reduced a bit and some of the useless flack cleaned up, rather than putting them on the sword, but I really want the sword to directly interact with paladin abilities in some way.

[bloodnose13]

Set Bonus adds

• Dodge +4
• Healer's Bounty

only thing i noticed is that dodge +4 would be useless for dos pally as +4 dodge is the part of tier 3 stance

all other upgrades sound great

[sephiroth1084]

only thing i noticed is that dodge +4 would be useless for dos pally as +4 dodge is the part of tier 3 stance

all other upgrades sound great

Item bonuses and enhancements/feats generally stack. In the case of Dodge, they stack. The devs made a stupid move when they started tinkering with how Dodge bonuses work, because what they ended up with is a rather confused community.

[Talias006]

So, if I'm reading this right +4 Dodge from an enhancement will stack with +4 Dodge from an item.
Just that same number bonuses of Dodge do not stack in terms of items alone.
Correct?

[sephiroth1084]

So, if I'm reading this right +4 Dodge from an enhancement will stack with +4 Dodge from an item.
Just that same number bonuses of Dodge do not stack in terms of items alone.
Correct?

Yup.

In fact, the +1 Dodge from the Dodge feat stacks with the +1 Dodge from Haste, which both stack with a +1 Dodge item, which all also stack with the +1 Dodge from the Haste portion of Air Guard.

[bloodnose13]

i have one bit of idea for the epic upgrade of divine vengence, a charisma based enchantment bonus same way as on epic midnight greetings, as for set effect great thing would be a fvs aura like light/good dmg vulnerability guard efefct, maybe weaker but it would still be something usefull.