The Silliness on our AH needs to stop.

[bhgiant]

So if people posted their stuff for reasonable prices then the same people could get more for their money as they try to launder their ill gotten gains. I say keep the prices high for a while so they get as little as possible. Yeah it sucks if you need to buy something but there's other ways to complete transactions without the extremely volatile plat right now.

Echoing the wise words of others. Keeping the prices at their natural high will lower the prices quicker and more naturally than if they are supplemented or fixed (current US economy anyone? bailout?). The other option would be for Turbine to actually punish the exploiters which hasn't happened yet (and no, a temporary ban is not a punishment equivalent to the offense of unlimited gold and +3 tome exploiting). Since Turbine is not doing the later, the best option is to just wait it out until the dirty money gets used up and things go back to normal.

[Maxallu]

These exploiter apologists make me sick. Turbine should take their plat away. This is not whining out a sense of entitlement. This is asking the devs to wright a wrong. The players should not have to suffer because a few cheaters.

[keefer1]

MR.Tank said it best..we know whats going on...it will pass just..make hay while the sun shines.


Devilsbane...G-land

[keefer1]

OR...you could run the quests..then you wouldn't need the AH

[Jaid314]

an environment where most of the stuff new players *really* need can be had at a set price and they can sell things for a large amount actually *favors* new players. the problem is thinking that you absolutely need the perfect gear (particularly tier 3 greensteel) to be able to run the content where you'll get the things you *actually* need.

for example, cannith crafting ingredient costs have if anything gone down on my server at least. as good as the best raid loot? admittedly not. but having a good crafting skill *will* get you good enough gear to farm that raid loot. you might not have all the best stuff, but the stuff you have will be good enough to get by until you do.

they may not be able to buy the materials for a lit II khopesh as soon as they used to. but they can sell things for more, and spend them on those things which are at a good price, as well as various consumables that make the game easier. when you can sell things for 3 times the usual cost, gear like a complete set of resist 20 potions or remove curse/blindness/disease/poison pots or a stack of heal scrolls becomes comparatively cheap. gear from the brokers will likewise become more accessible. haste potions, rage potions, displacement potions... the list goes on.

it's a seller's market right now. so be a seller. later on, the market will have balanced itself out, and if you play your cards right, maybe you can be the one with lots of plat to spend, when there's lots of stuff to spend it on.

[grandeibra]

@germanicus

Grodon's post was spot on.

If you feel otherwise, please point us to any economics text where it says that free economy includes where one or more parties can print their own money at will. I have never come across one.

[Chette]

@germanicus

Grodon's post was spot on.

If you feel otherwise, please point us to any economics text where it says that free economy includes where one or more parties can print their own money at will. I have never come across one.

The ability of one or more parties to print their own money (the federal reserve does this in the US), while it can certainly screw up an economy, has nothing to do with whether a market is free or not. The definition of a free market is one where the price of commodities is set by supply and demand, as supposed to a set price controlled by one party).

The people who exploited don't want devil scales to cost 2M plat, I'm sure they'd much rather have them for 400k plat a piece. They are not regulating the prices on the AH. The fact that there is an extremely high demand, yet the supply has not risen to meet that demand, is what has set that price.

Yes, the supply/demand has altered due to their cheating, but the price is still a result of supply/demand.

[grandeibra]

The ability of one or more parties to print their own money (the federal reserve does this in the US), while it can certainly screw up an economy, has nothing to do with whether a market is free or not. The definition of a free market is one where the price of commodities is set by supply and demand, as supposed to a set price controlled by one party)

I agree with everything you said ^^

However that has nothing to do with the scenario I was talking about here. The incentives of the federal reserve are vastly different from a regular player in the free market or from some felon who has his own moneyprintship. That difference makes the two cases completely separate both in thought and effect. The incentive of a cheater is to print as much money as possible. If this is possible (my comment about at will) making the supply curve not a curve with any slope, but a straight line with no y-axis (or x-axis depending upon which type of S/D curve you prefer). This means no equilibrium can be found since all "products" will be bought at any price rendering the basic idea of a free market void, or in the case of DDo all products can be bought at 2.1M. My fear, and I may very well be wrong about this, is that the cheaters have so much stuff saved away that any time they want to they can "print" money and like during the cheating, buy upp everything they need regardless of price. That is not a free market. Having a governing body that can print money, change interest rates etc is vastly different.

[Fundamental]

the world is ruled by 3 forces

greed, power and stupidity

albert einstein

i know people who sell 1 flawless red for 3.1 million pp lol

ghallanda = goin crazy :P

[GermanicusMaximus]

@germanicus

Grodon's post was spot on.

If you feel otherwise, please point us to any economics text where it says that free economy includes where one or more parties can print their own money at will. I have never come across one.

And you likely won't, since what constitutes a free market transaction vs the effects that additional money supply has on pricing are two entirely different topics in the field of economics. A free market transaction is a free market transaction, regardless of the actual price paid. This is one of the reasons texts have chapters that discuss separate topics.

And of course, the exploiters do not have the ability to "print their own money at will". The exploit has been taken away, unless you have specific knowledge that you should be reporting to Turbine as required by your ToS. The exploiters resources are finite, and their ability to further add to them are operating under the same constraints as any other well funded player.

Analogies are useful when they correctly model the actual situation.

[Zenthalas]

It's bad when the recession hits the economy of an MMO, we are the 99% :P

[Aurora1979]

These exploiter apologists make me sick. Turbine should take their plat away. This is not whining out a sense of entitlement. This is asking the devs to wright a wrong. The players should not have to suffer because a few cheaters.

This, I agree with 100% they should have all their plat and equipment deleted. and be lucky they are not kicked from the game.

An exploit is an exploit but this one was pretty heavy.

[cpito]

These exploiter apologists make me sick. Turbine should take their plat away. This is not whining out a sense of entitlement. This is asking the devs to wright a wrong. The players should not have to suffer because a few cheaters.

This, I agree with 100% they should have all their plat... deleted. and be lucky they are not kicked from the game.

An exploit is an exploit but this one was pretty heavy.

I'm curious as to how you would accomplish this? Who would lose plat? What happens to the items bought/sold by people who unknowingly traded with an exploiter? How about those people exploiting the exploiters by selling honestly gotten items at inflated prices?

I'm not apologizing for the exploiters, Turbine could have come down harder, but I am trying to look out for the many innocent people who managed to benefit.

[voodoogroves]

Hold the phone....



On Ghallanda we don't have drama, we have a recession?




Dangit, this is supposed to be my escape!

[harold2560]

How about those people exploiting the exploiters by selling honestly gotten items at inflated prices?

I'd not consider that to be an exploit. You can sell your stuff for whatever you like, whether its a fair price or not.

I would lean more towards classifying this as a sort of community justice. Selling stuff for ridiculous prices via the AH is one way to start to rid the economy of too much plat.

[Aurora1979]

I'm curious as to how you would accomplish this? Who would lose plat? What happens to the items bought/sold by people who unknowingly traded with an exploiter? How about those people exploiting the exploiters by selling honestly gotten items at inflated prices?

I'm not apologizing for the exploiters, Turbine could have come down harder, but I am trying to look out for the many innocent people who managed to benefit.

I know, the chains too long to sort out now. There is nothing that can be done. If you leave the oppertunity for people to take the **** and not get punished then some people will take it.

I could go through your points and give an answer, common sense answers them all but as I say its not going to happen, they have gotten away with it. And because of that they will do it again next time, so will many other people who wouldnt wana miss out.

I would only correct your post by saying Turbine should have come down harder, not could of. We know its within their ability but I dont think anyone can deny that the benefits of the "crime" out weight the punishment