The Silliness on our AH needs to stop.

[GermanicusMaximus]

These are, I believe, termed strawman arguments. That is, ascribing arguments to your opponents in a debate that they do not make, in the attempt to discredit their actual arguments.

These are exactly the arguments made. The OP believes he has the right to determine what the price of a LDS should be. Barring that, any price higher is at best silliness. At worst, it is outright paranoia that the economy of the server is "under attack".

You really need to get a better grip on what constitutes market manipulation. Simply because someone has more plat than you, and is willing to spend more than you are willing to in order to acquire any given item, does not constitute market manipulation.

In a free market, the price is set by a willing seller and a willing buyer. Any item sold on the AH is by definition a free market transaction. If anything, the arbitrarily limited amount of plat that can be paid for an item sold on the AH serves as the primary constraint to a totally free market environment on the AH.

The varying prices of LDS on the various servers really only illustrates
1) the differences in the supply/demand dynamic on each server
2) the differences in the ecomomic vitality of each server

LDS are for the most part a thinly traded commodity. As such, they are subject to a wide price fluctuation. Couple that with the fact they have no meaningful production cost which would set a floor for their price, and you have a situation where just about any price agreed to by a buyer and seller can be justified.

[Maxallu]

These are exactly the arguments made. The OP believes he has the right to determine what the price of a LDS should be. Barring that, any price higher is at best silliness. At worst, it is outright paranoia that the economy of the server is "under attack".

You really need to get a better grip on what constitutes market manipulation. Simply because someone has more plat than you, and is willing to spend more than you are willing to in order to acquire any given item, does not constitute market manipulation.

In a free market, the price is set by a willing seller and a willing buyer. Any item sold on the AH is by definition a free market transaction. If anything, the arbitrarily limited amount of plat that can be paid for an item sold on the AH serves as the primary constraint to a totally free market environment on the AH.

The varying prices of LDS on the various servers really only illustrates
1) the differences in the supply/demand dynamic on each server
2) the differences in the ecomomic vitality of each server


LDS are for the most part a thinly traded commodity. As such, they are subject to a wide price fluctuation. Couple that with the fact they have no meaningful production cost which would set a floor for their price, and you have a situation where just about any price agreed to by a buyer and seller can be justified.

If you think that the LDS prices (not to mention, large mats, blue scales etc.) are inflated for any reason other than expoiters abusing the economy and specifically the AH, then I feel sorry for you.

[LeLoric]

If you think that the LDS prices (not to mention, large mats, blue scales etc.) are inflated for any reason other than expoiters abusing the economy and specifically the AH, then I feel sorry for you.

So if people posted their stuff for reasonable prices then the same people could get more for their money as they try to launder their ill gotten gains. I say keep the prices high for a while so they get as little as possible. Yeah it sucks if you need to buy something but there's other ways to complete transactions without the extremely volatile plat right now.

[Doubs]

So if people posted their stuff for reasonable prices then the same people could get more for their money as they try to launder their ill gotten gains. I say keep the prices high for a while so they get as little as possible. Yeah it sucks if you need to buy something but there's other ways to complete transactions without the extremely volatile plat right now.

Exactly!

/Doub

[Thlargir]

You really need to get a better grip on what constitutes market manipulation. Simply because someone has more plat than you, and is willing to spend more than you are willing to in order to acquire any given item, does not constitute market manipulation.

On the off chance that you are being serious, I would like to point out that nobody has argued that point. The OP was suggesting that the reason some folks had more plat was because they took advantage of an exploit and that the extra plat has distorted the market, and that this was a "bad thing".

[Correlan]

So if people posted their stuff for reasonable prices then the same people could get more for their money as they try to launder their ill gotten gains. I say keep the prices high for a while so they get as little as possible. Yeah it sucks if you need to buy something but there's other ways to complete transactions without the extremely volatile plat right now.

^^ This

If you are desperate for certain items, use the forum market place, You may get the stuff you need @ Bargain prices.

1 mill Large Devil Scales anyone?

[lronEnema]

There is no point chastising players / complaining about the prices. You are trying to hold back the sea - Canute style. It's not going to work.

This is a function, as others have pointed out, of the massive oversupply of plat (of itself uselesss) and the limited supply of useful items (LDS).

The result is hyperinflation. All we can do now is wait for taxes (ie AH tax) to reduce money supply.

The real failure here is one of regulation - ie Turbine. Allowing the players to keep thier illegally acquired items and plat was always going to have this result. If you want to do something - make your displeasure known to Turbine.......though I can't imagine it will have any effect. For now, what's done is done - maybe we can have the efffect of a more robust Turbine response when the next exploit comes along.

[grodon9999]

These are exactly the arguments made. The OP believes he has the right to determine what the price of a LDS should be. Barring that, any price higher is at best silliness. At worst, it is outright paranoia that the economy of the server is "under attack".

You really need to get a better grip on what constitutes market manipulation. Simply because someone has more plat than you, and is willing to spend more than you are willing to in order to acquire any given item, does not constitute market manipulation.

In a free market, the price is set by a willing seller and a willing buyer. Any item sold on the AH is by definition a free market transaction. If anything, the arbitrarily limited amount of plat that can be paid for an item sold on the AH serves as the primary constraint to a totally free market environment on the AH.

The varying prices of LDS on the various servers really only illustrates
1) the differences in the supply/demand dynamic on each server
2) the differences in the ecomomic vitality of each server

LDS are for the most part a thinly traded commodity. As such, they are subject to a wide price fluctuation. Couple that with the fact they have no meaningful production cost which would set a floor for their price, and you have a situation where just about any price agreed to by a buyer and seller can be justified.

is it really a free market when a few people cheat and effectively print their own money?

[grodon9999]

So if people posted their stuff for reasonable prices then the same people could get more for their money as they try to launder their ill gotten gains. I say keep the prices high for a while so they get as little as possible. Yeah it sucks if you need to buy something but there's other ways to complete transactions without the extremely volatile plat right now.

This is why I keep all my money investing in halfling slaves.

[cpito]

So if people posted their stuff for reasonable prices then the same people could get more for their money as they try to launder their ill gotten gains. I say keep the prices high for a while so they get as little as possible. Yeah it sucks if you need to buy something but there's other ways to complete transactions without the extremely volatile plat right now.

To expand on this idea, the higher the prices these people pay, the larger the chunk of plat that gets removed from the game (through AH fees). There are other methods available for making trades at "reasonable" prices.

[Mr_Tank]

These are, I believe, termed strawman arguments. That is, ascribing arguments to your opponents in a debate that they do not make, in the attempt to discredit their actual arguments.




So let me explain, no, there is no time, let me sum up:
1) An exploit injected a large amount of plat into the economy,
2) Plat is useless in of itself and thus has to be converted into useful alternatives,
3) The price of useful alternatives thereby rises.

This is not the way a "free market" operates, this is the way a manipulated market operates.

P.S. Snapshot prices by server (for what it is worth):
Argo 1.5M 1 available
Khyber 1M few available
Thelanis 400K 1 page
Orien <400K 1 page
Ghallanda 1.5M 1 page
Cannith 500K few available
Sarlona 450K few available
Wayfinder none available

Argo, Khyber, and G-land know what is going on.

[Aaxeyu]

Yeah. Free the market by fixing the prices! Oh wait...

[Dandonk]

Yeah. Free the market by fixing the prices! Oh wait...

Or free the market by deleting the exploiters' ill-gotten gains.

[Vanquishedfo]

your just to innocent OP. those who exploited had no NEED to immediatly sale thier ill gotten gains. they in fact will never ever run out as the amount they have stock piled away means that it only takes 1 of those players occasionally clearing out one of his pages on one of his many mules bank tabs to cause this issue to keep rising again to the surface.

the prices will only keep climbing up as new players fueled by greed and desperation follow suit with thier few drops.

[Aaxeyu]

Or free the market by deleting the exploiters' ill-gotten gains.

Yes. Do that and nothing else.

the prices will only keep climbing up as new players fueled by greed and desperation follow suit with thier few drops.

No, the prices will keep climbing becuase of the increased money supply and lower supply of scales.

[Micron]

I needed a little cash the other day and put a couple pairs of shraps and arrowheads on the AH for 120k plat buyout a pair, oblivious to the existence of any exploits (I make a point of reading the General DDO Discussion as little as possible). Was a bit puzzled when they all sold within half an hour.

After reading this thread, I assume they were all bought to be re-sold at ten times the price.

As long as it made the person that re-sold them happy, it's all good I guess. It's not like you can buy friends or skill on the auction house, so who really cares what the prices are. You can always get scales in trade from reasonable people using other means than the AH, or you can go farm Shroud, EDA or Shavarath.

[Miow]

Or free the market by deleting the exploiters' ill-gotten gains.

The problem here is not the market, it's the dirty(ill got) money. The fact is fix the gains from the exploits and it will fix itself. Anybody who argues that might just be an exploiter.

[LucidLTS]

I love a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but the forums are full of threads about how LFMs in general, and Shroud LFMs in particular, have dried up of late - could the prices be explained by this reducing the supply and crippling the "farm your own" option?

Or free the market by deleting the exploiters' ill-gotten gains.

On the other hand, if the conspiracy theory led to this, I'd support it 100%. Turbine could shed a lot of money grubber image if they pursued this option aggressively. But, of course, they won't

[Jaid314]

if shroud ingredients are selling for a ridiculously high price (and probably other commodities are largely unaffected), then perhaps it is time for you to sell a few shroud ingredients, and wait for it to come back down later when you can buy them at what you consider to be a more reasonable price.

if you wish to gain devil scales, simply use the system in reverse; go farm the stuff that trades for devil scales (like dragon scales, tapestry pieces, tome pages, GH relics, etc) and trade loot for loot, where there is likely to be no inflation whatsoever.

you have an opportunity now to make a lot of money at the exploiters' expense, and your money will become more valuable later on once the AH gets back to reasonable levels.

[GermanicusMaximus]

is it really a free market when a few people cheat and effectively print their own money?

If you think that I am in any way endorsing the use of the exploit that took place, you are mistaken. If you doubt this, simply start reading the prior posts I have made across a few threads stating my opinion of the exploiters.

At this point, the plat and items acquired through exploitation has essentially reached legitimate status. Turbine had the option of permanently banning everyone in game who exploited, and apparently they just gave them a slap on the wrist.

Who is buying large ingredients off the AH? Some people seem to believe they know, but in fact all AH transactions are anonymous, and anyone stating they know is either buying the ingredients themselves or overestimating their own knowledge.

In the end, it doesn't matter. No single player has enough resources to control AH prices in anything except the very short term. If people are overpaying for ingredients, they will shortly exhaust their plat.

If you really think AH prices are too high, simply don't buy and farm your own ingredients. That would be a constructive response to the situation. Whining on the forums because you have a sense of entitlement is not.