The Guild Wall

[Qaliya]

I think many veterans may underestimate how hard it is for a new player to find a guild that matches their needs. I've been looking for several weeks now and have not had a great deal of luck.

One of the main problems is that it's hard to get current information about most guilds. There is some in the "Sarlona Guilds" section, but it doesn't seem up to date. I can see some of the larger guilds on the server as I PUG, but I never know much about them.

In fact, I usually don't even know if they are looking for new players or not. Postings from newcomers looking for a guild seem to get few responses.

Most guilds don't seem to want newer players. I can understand why this is, but it's a real impediment for those who are new.

Some guilds want you to run with them for a while before they'll consider you. Again, I get the reasoning, but in practice it is very difficult to do this. Raids have timers and it's mostly sheer luck if I happen to be around and looking at the LFM panel when the guild I am interested in happens to open up a raid for PUGgers.

I'm not asking for anything here, just want those who run guilds to think about what they might be able to do to make their guilds more newbie-accessible. Even if it is just making information easier to find, either in the Guilds subforum, via signature links or whatnot.

I know a lot of newer players out there kinda stink, but not all of us do. And any group eventually stagnates without fresh blood. So consider a newbie today.

[ulticleo]

There are many large guilds who take on newbies on a regular basis, including mine.

I have a few issues with your request, however.
First, you are looking for a large guild. those guilds got to high levels through the work of their members. why not join any guild that is recruiting and help bring it to high level ourself?
Second, a guild is a lot more than having a number above your head. some guilds are about raiding and/or epics. some are about friends. some are about the number. Try to make friends or at least get to know some people when you pug. then find if their guild has room for you.

true story:
My first 3 guilds I joined through some kind of recruitment or another. ended up leaving each one for various reasons. Then one day I joined my very first epic, a von1. it was obvious that while some memebers of the group knew the quest, we were all ill equipped. we slugged through it, and about an hour later, finished. we had a blast, and the cleric recuriting me to her guild (this is long before guild ships and levels). I've been running with that guild ever since, and made some very good "in game" friends.

in short, find people, not a guild.

[Qaliya]

in short, find people, not a guild.

What you're telling me to do is exactly what I'm saying I'm having trouble doing. Finding people whom I mesh with well and who are willing to take on new members.

Note that I never said anything about wanting a high guild level. I'm not after a guild for ship buffs. I can get those via invites, and frankly, I rarely use them even via invite. I find that buffs are an addiction, once you stop relying on them you don't miss them much. I usually only use them for very tough content where I feel a responsibility to maximize my ability to contribute.

I want to be a part of a group that I can have fun with. My thinking was simply that a larger guild would offer more opportunities to find people to do things with, especially since I spend a fair bit of time leveling. If the guild is small and I can't find folks to run with, I might as well just keep PUGging.

I think the "we worked for it, go level your own guild" attitude is part of the problem. But I thank you for the response.

[jwdaniels]

Qaliya, what time of day do you play and what class(es) and level(s)? How old are you, and what exactly are you looking to get out of the game? This information (which is missing from your OP) will help anyone from a guild that reads this thread figure out whether or not you might be a fit.

Also, I think the tone of your posts are a bit off. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder that you're not guilded already, however you don't seem willing to put in the effort to find like-minded people to play the game with that you can run with. It takes time to find out if a guild is right for you and if you are right for the guild - whether that process is via forum pms, some quests in game, 20+ years of interacting in real life or some other way it's not as simple as you seem to think.

[Zenako]

Almost everyone in most long standing guilds, got in by running with those guys a bit before getting asked to join. A feeling out period. Making sure how you like to play matches with the dominant ways in the guild. You know when you like to play, just keep looking around at those times. Finding a group of people you like playing with, but whose time of play differs a lot from when you can play, will not lead to success in the long term. If you are as you say a "good player" that is a bonus, but more important to most guilds, are you a "good person" to hang out with and chat with. Does your sense of humor align with the guilds. Run in pugs. Guilds who are looking for new blood often scout there. Be yourself. A lot of guilds are not all that actively recruiting these days, content to stick with whom they have on board. Good luck on finding a match.

[mws2970]

I replied to the OP's other thread in the guild forum (I was the only one) and haven't heard anything. Now, I understand you might not think we're "right" for you, but how do you know unless you try?

[ulticleo]

What you're telling me to do is exactly what I'm saying I'm having trouble doing. Finding people whom I mesh with well and who are willing to take on new members.

so... you are having problems meshing with people, but you want to join their guilds?

[Tobril]

Be noticed while pugging. Stand out as according to your gifts,
whatever those may be. (skill, personality, etc)

Eventually you will find a group of people similar enough to you
unless your playtime is severely limited.


Where you pug makes a difference as well. Run a lot of epics and
you’ll eventually wind up in end-game groups. Shroud all the time
and meet a wide range of people. IF TRing is your thing then try out
Zonixx’s TR channel and you’ll quickly fall into a solid group if you
“gel” well.

Lots of options out there, but you may have to be a bit of the change
you want to see.

[LordPiglet]

I think many veterans may underestimate how hard it is for a new player to find a guild that matches their needs. I've been looking for several weeks now and have not had a great deal of luck.

One of the main problems is that it's hard to get current information about most guilds. There is some in the "Sarlona Guilds" section, but it doesn't seem up to date. I can see some of the larger guilds on the server as I PUG, but I never know much about them.

In fact, I usually don't even know if they are looking for new players or not. Postings from newcomers looking for a guild seem to get few responses.

Most guilds don't seem to want newer players. I can understand why this is, but it's a real impediment for those who are new.

Some guilds want you to run with them for a while before they'll consider you. Again, I get the reasoning, but in practice it is very difficult to do this. Raids have timers and it's mostly sheer luck if I happen to be around and looking at the LFM panel when the guild I am interested in happens to open up a raid for PUGgers.

I'm not asking for anything here, just want those who run guilds to think about what they might be able to do to make their guilds more newbie-accessible. Even if it is just making information easier to find, either in the Guilds subforum, via signature links or whatnot.

I know a lot of newer players out there kinda stink, but not all of us do. And any group eventually stagnates without fresh blood. So consider a newbie today.

I'm in a small guild, and I'm not sure how other guilds are, but we don't openly recruit.

If you're already in a guild, we're not going to invite you unless you come us asking about it, and you're someone we feel comfortable running with.

[totabc]

in short, find people, not a guild.

Agreed.

[Mangloid]

My question to you is : Why should a guild have to go out of it's way to try and find you?

You need to remember that it's you that want to join them. A lot of the older raiding and epic questing guilds don't go out of their way to find people. They run raids and quest with a lot of long time friends and guild members. Sure, it's hard. It's very hard, but find a guild you like and actively seek it out. I've known several people who started out as some random PUG, but through persistence and effort became a known and trusted who either got an invite to a guild or got steady invites on raids and quests.

Heck, the most recent guy that comes to mind is a certain "i need the Knosts belt" Barbarian. The guy started out as a random PUG that was annoying, but he was persistent. People learned that he's seems to be a pretty decent guy, and a decent player. So he's been getting more invites.

Go find a guild that has people you like to run with. Look for their members LFM's. Send them a few tells. Get to know them a little. Don't just expect things handed to you.

[Dexxaan]

Some Advice:

a) Find a tutor;

b) Read forums up on the areas you need to perform;

c) Run Epics and MyDDO the Tank, The CC, The Healbot, etc.... Look at their Stats, their Gear and see if you are at least 75% up to par. (If you are then you know which way to go as far as build improvement.)

d) When approaching a Guild of your liking, make sure you get a "feel" for what they expect of you. (Fun Loving, Zerger, Powergamer, RolePlaying, etc)

e) Avoid being a Newb: Have plenty of Heal Pots, Rem Curse, Rem Disease (you should have gear against that stuff at higher levels); Don't die and take a rez in the middle of a Red Colored Blade Barrier; don't Pew Pew and drag a ****-ton of Mobs to your Party..... the basics...


Other than that......Suck it up - it builds character or grinds you into a faceless pulp to be promptly discarded on a huge pile of newbwaste.


.

[Qaliya]

I seem to have stepped on toes here and that was not my intention. Sorry if my tone has come across the wrong way.

I will figure this out for myself. I am not asking anyone for anything, in fact I am generally the sort of person who prefers to do things for himself. I was just trying to more generally say something about the overall difficulty of finding a guild that fits. Perhaps it's just me.

I'll keep PUGging and if I find something that fits, it fits. It may be that I just belong in my "guild of one" and exploring the PUG scene.

mws2970, I apologize for not replying to you directly. I usually do, so not sure what happened there. I sent you a PM.

[Zenako]

One little thing to note. If you are in a "guild of one" as you state, that further reduces the odds that someone might ask you to join, since most of the time people frown on poaching players from other guilds. If it is merely a guild of convenience for yourself, you should let it be known to those you are joining, if you are interested in stepping out of it. In the days before Guild Renown and all it brings with it, I and a friend of mine had a simple 2 person guild (Called: Friends of Tim) (and yes he liked playing an "enchanter" and blowing things up). We ditched that artifice once we both joined a more established (but now long defunct) guild.

It is my presumption generally that anyone with a guild tag does so because they are ok with their current guild.

[BansheeMalthus]

My 2 coppers. My guild, has never stopped recruiting, though the way has changed. See we started out as a group of 3-6 friends(3 of which know each other in RL) and made a guildsite, posted on the forums, etc. etc.. Never really got a lot of querys, but we got a few and we grew by 4 or 5 peeps. Well, we started doing the "hard quests" and we actually started joining pugs for *gasp* raids. We didnt have a clue what we were doing, but, we always said so in the LFM or sent a tell before we clicked join. We were always willing to listen, learn, and do what we were told to, so that we could learn and bring this knowledge back to our guildies who didnt want to pug. In a few short weeks/months we actually got enough members to try raids on our on, and pug out a few spots. Then as we got more proficient, we started advertising Guild runs, 2 spots open, etc. Well people started asking about us, cause we are very relaxed, but competent, play to win, but it it hits the fan, no big, etc.. Well weve had 2 MAJOR growth spurts, and while it doesnt seem we are recruiting, its just kinda passive. we know all of our guildies, can bs about anything, and have became friend as well. We dont want to become so big that people are strangers, yet we dont push peeps away either. In the case of wanting to run a few quests with someone first, well playstyles and personalities differ, sometime drastically. You may be a fabulous player, well geared etc, but if you are a jerk, I dont care how well you play, it wont be with us. You also could be a gimptastic toon, but a great person, and we will take you anywhere as long as you try. As stated above, its the people, not the guild, or guild size that matter.

[djl]

My question to you is : Why should a guild have to go out of it's way to try and find you?

You need to remember that it's you that want to join them. A lot of the older raiding and epic questing guilds don't go out of their way to find people. They run raids and quest with a lot of long time friends and guild members. Sure, it's hard. It's very hard, but find a guild you like and actively seek it out. I've known several people who started out as some random PUG, but through persistence and effort became a known and trusted who either got an invite to a guild or got steady invites on raids and quests.

Heck, the most recent guy that comes to mind is a certain "i need the Knosts belt" Barbarian. The guy started out as a random PUG that was annoying, but he was persistent. People learned that he's seems to be a pretty decent guy, and a decent player. So he's been getting more invites.

Go find a guild that has people you like to run with. Look for their members LFM's. Send them a few tells. Get to know them a little. Don't just expect things handed to you.

Okay, I've got to admit this post made me smile a bit.

[moops]

Meh I didn't take offense to your post, but perhaps that is because I have playe dwith you before.

I will say this, the larger the guild, the easier it usually is to get into--since you mean large as in guild size not level.

It is the more established ( by established I mean around for longer than 6 months, not level or repute) small and medium guilds that are harder to get into since these often times are real life friendships or families, or in QE's case real life friendships that started in game.

That said, I do constantly pug to look for new people to fill out raids, and end game content. . .First and foremost I look for people that listen, and then people who don't mind experimenting--gear and build does not matter to me, because if we like you we will help you get everything you need or desire. . .Some of these people have eventually found their way into QE.

It does help if people also send me tells. If you find a guild that you are interested in find out which people in the guild usually lead things, and send them tells--see what kind of response you get.

I personally won't approach anyone with a guild tag. . .I might gently tease, but this would only be to someone that I know really well that might have joined a Chinese guild because 2 friends were in it but both those people don't play anymore

[zorander6]

My little guild doesn't actively recruit. In fact membership increased by 50% just recently (2 new members.) I'm one of the few in my guild that actively PUGs since the wife and a friend don't like the PUG scene. The 2 new members got lucky since we were going to run a quest that one of the new members wanted to run. We are all on a first name basis. If our long lost paladin ever comes back we'll be a full party. I don't recruit people, I don't ask people to join, I don't even advertise if I'm looking since most people in my character's level ranges are already in megaguilds and wouldn't want a small guild with a small airship. We'll probably never hit 40 or whatever it is to upgrade and we don't honestly care.

We play a quest till we complete most of the time(117 deaths is our max) and we try to have fun at it. The wife and friend are flower sniffers, they like to spend 30min + talking about whatever catches their interest outside of game. Me personally I prefer quick quests most of the time but I'm ok with the slower method too.

So what does this rambling lead to? Run PUGs, get to know people, and once you know someone in xyz guild that you want to join let them know that you are interested.

[Lost_Leader]

I think many veterans may underestimate how hard it is for a new player to find a guild that matches their needs. I've been looking for several weeks now and have not had a great deal of luck.

One of the main problems is that it's hard to get current information about most guilds. There is some in the "Sarlona Guilds" section, but it doesn't seem up to date. I can see some of the larger guilds on the server as I PUG, but I never know much about them.

In fact, I usually don't even know if they are looking for new players or not. Postings from newcomers looking for a guild seem to get few responses.

Most guilds don't seem to want newer players. I can understand why this is, but it's a real impediment for those who are new.

Some guilds want you to run with them for a while before they'll consider you. Again, I get the reasoning, but in practice it is very difficult to do this. Raids have timers and it's mostly sheer luck if I happen to be around and looking at the LFM panel when the guild I am interested in happens to open up a raid for PUGgers.

I'm not asking for anything here, just want those who run guilds to think about what they might be able to do to make their guilds more newbie-accessible. Even if it is just making information easier to find, either in the Guilds subforum, via signature links or whatnot.

I know a lot of newer players out there kinda stink, but not all of us do. And any group eventually stagnates without fresh blood. So consider a newbie today.

I understand what you are saying here. I imagine it would be tough as a new player to find a crew that wasn't an open invite Korthos Army style of thing.

For my own guild, I don't go out of my way to recruit. I am not trying to make us appealing to fresh blood to prevent stagnating. I wait for fresh blood to find me.

For me, at least, this has worked well. We have found most of our members through pugging, friends of friends, and even one or two on the forums. People run with us, read about us, know one of us, and contact me about joining. I talk to my crew, and we decide whether or not to try it out. I have a rule that whoever "sponsors" a new member is pretty much responsible to help them fit in, and that can be a bit of a time commitment. Since most of us jealously guard our game time, such a commitment is not a thing taken lightly.

The point of all that, though, is that my guild tends not to ask people to join. Especially if someone is already wearing a guild tag. We wait for people to ask us, and then we run together a bit and see if our personalities will mesh.

Is this newbie friendly? Not really. But I am not here to run a business trying to attract customers. I am merely the organizer of a group of friends.

Then again, we are a small crew, only 30ish members (but we have been around since March of 06, so something must be going okay), so my style of guild may not be the target audience of your post.

I don't know if this post will help you find a guild you are looking for, but maybe if other guild leadership is run like mine, you should try taking the initiative towards setting up a time to join them on raids, join their groups, get to know them. I mean actually send a tell to their leader/officers and ask to join some of their raids/quests, don't just wait for a serendipitous pug. Tell them you are interested in joining, from previous experience with them, or from reading their webpages, or whatever. Ask them, don't wait for them to ask you.

[zorander6]

I understand what you are saying here. I imagine it would be tough as a new player to find a crew that wasn't an open invite Korthos Army style of thing.

For my own guild, I don't go out of my way to recruit. I am not trying to make us appealing to fresh blood to prevent stagnating. I wait for fresh blood to find me.

For me, at least, this has worked well. We have found most of our members through pugging, friends of friends, and even one or two on the forums. People run with us, read about us, know one of us, and contact me about joining. I talk to my crew, and we decide whether or not to try it out. I have a rule that whoever "sponsors" a new member is pretty much responsible to help them fit in, and that can be a bit of a time commitment. Since most of us jealously guard our game time, such a commitment is not a thing taken lightly.

The point of all that, though, is that my guild tends not to ask people to join. Especially if someone is already wearing a guild tag. We wait for people to ask us, and then we run together a bit and see if our personalities will mesh.

Is this newbie friendly? Not really. But I am not here to run a business trying to attract customers. I am merely the organizer of a group of friends.

Then again, we are a small crew, only 30ish members (but we have been around since March of 06, so something must be going okay), so my style of guild may not be the target audience of your post.

I don't know if this post will help you find a guild you are looking for, but maybe if other guild leadership is run like mine, you should try taking the initiative towards setting up a time to join them on raids, join their groups, get to know them. I mean actually send a tell to their leader/officers and ask to join some of their raids/quests, don't just wait for a serendipitous pug. Tell them you are interested in joining, from previous experience with them, or from reading their webpages, or whatever. Ask them, don't wait for them to ask you.

From what I've seen this is how most good guilds work. Run with them, get to know someone and have them sponsor you. No, not newb friendly but some guilds will make exceptions too.