MAX DPS ROGUE build(assassin 3 str build/guide)

[Qezuzu]

Fine, emg's and epic envenomed blades.

My INT rogue usually uses dual eGaros Malices, with eMG in offhand only when assassinating. Dual eMG when fighting bosses, but mainly for the improved deception (I usually duo so I need everything I can get for SA). Dual LitII rapiers for fire immune junk, and crafted boss beaters for bosses.

I have base 12 STR and base 18 DEX, and it's actually pretty hard to keep a higher DEX than STR because of what gear there is for STR. Rogues that use DEX-for-DMG weapons, and/or finesse, are mistaken.

[Aerendil]

Anyone can equip any piece of gear. You're implying base-12 STR rogues have, by default, worse gear, or that they neglect to get STR gear.

The only difference between a max STR rogue and base-12 STR rogue is 12 points of STR.

Exactly. Even if I were to dump Str, I'd still be wearing a +7 or +8 str item; I'd still get the same bonuses from tomes; I'd still most likely be getting Rage cast on me in groups; etc.

So I presumed all other things being equal - in which case it's a difference of 8-10 points (since I don't expect many Str rogues to start with max Str of 18. Too many stat points required for that).

The real difference would be if you factored in that +5 damage per hit loss combined with favouring Power Attack over Precision. Then it's suddenly a +10 dmg per hit loss, which is now noticeable - especially on crits when you're losing that extra damage to modify your base damage by. But then you'd crit less as Precision offers -25% fort...so.... someone want to do the odds / math on that?

[Qezuzu]

what else can they use? light maces with no damage mod?

They can use any weapon they're proficient in. DEX for DMG isn't useful, because there is so much gear that raises STR as opposed to DEX.

so, you only rely on SA for damage even on monsters that you can't break DR?

The only DR you can't break with the appropriate weapon is on elementals (and a few other misc mobs).

And, looking at this sentence, what you just asked makes no sense.

i guess you do rely only on SA for damage.

Is there a problem with that? Even with high base damage, sneak attacks and weapon mutations are going to be the vast majority of your damage

and grazing hits do happen with TWF.

I wouldn't be familiar with this because of my rogue's to-hit.

damage is needed to complete raids and quests, hence the need for more.

Damage is needed. What I'm saying is that the small amount of damage you get from higher STR is not needed, and that there are benefits to focusing on other stats. Because rogues have high damage almost by default.

trash is trivial. i don't spend much time focusing on it. bosses aren't trivial.

Almost the entire challenge with completing epic elite is surviving the incoming damage from trash. If its dead it can't do damage. In a full raid group, trash isn't as important, but in epic elites, almost the whole quest is trash. Better Assassinate is more important than a few points of damage.

[Rogann]

Anyone can equip any piece of gear. You're implying base-12 STR rogues have, by default, worse gear, or that they neglect to get STR gear.

The only difference between a max STR rogue and base-12 STR rogue is 12 points of STR.

So your implying a dex/int rogue would equip 3 piece abi set, insight +3, except +1, and +8 str item? Seriously lets get real here. Just because "every build can get the same items" doesn't mean there gonna do it.

[Rogann]

My INT rogue usually uses dual eGaros Malices, with eMG in offhand only when assassinating. Dual eMG when fighting bosses, but mainly for the improved deception (I usually duo so I need everything I can get for SA). Dual LitII rapiers for fire immune junk, and crafted boss beaters for bosses.

I have base 12 STR and base 18 DEX, and it's actually pretty hard to keep a higher DEX than STR because of what gear there is for STR. Rogues that use DEX-for-DMG weapons, and/or finesse, are mistaken.

Then why did you go dex in the first place? If you don't use dex to dmg weapons then I can hardly see why you would want dex just for some measly ac/reflex saves.

[erikbozelie]

why half orc and not halfling?

+3 pa and +2 damage from strength from half orc versus 8(-1str) from halfling guille( also +5 to hit on sneak attacks)?

however you get 1 point more use out of guille since you only get half strength on your off hand attacks?

on the other thought, sa does not multiply with crits. hmm. intresting thought.
ill put my math machine to work tommorow.

[Qezuzu]

So your implying a dex/int rogue would equip 3 piece abi set, insight +3, except +1, and +8 str item? Seriously lets get real here. Just because "every build can get the same items" doesn't mean there gonna do it.

Explain what is exactly preventing low-STR rogues from using items that boost their STR. Because there is absolutely nothing that prevents them from doing that. STR is easier to raise through gear than DEX, and using STR for damage means you can use any weapons.

Then why did you go dex in the first place? If you don't use dex to dmg weapons then I can hardly see why you would want dex just for some measly ac/reflex saves.

I didn't go DEX. My DEX is high enough for Improved Sneak Attack, and that's it. I took INT.

For clarification:

14 STR +3 tome
16 DEX +3 tome +2 level up (21 for ISA)
16 CON +4 tome +1 level up (21 for epic toughness)
16 INT +3 tome +3 level ups (22)
8 WIS/CHA

Now, actually looking at it, I'm not exactly sure what stat I'm supposed to based on. Just barely INT based perhaps. But it's not STR.

[destiny4405]

They can use any weapon they're proficient in. DEX for DMG isn't useful, because there is so much gear that raises STR as opposed to DEX.

who? builds that dumped str? the ones i was reffering to?

The only DR you can't break with the appropriate weapon is on elementals (and a few other misc mobs).

And, looking at this sentence, what you just asked makes no sense.

yes, if appropriate weapons are used. if you answered it, i guess it made enough sense.

Is there a problem with that? Even with high base damage, sneak attacks and weapon mutations are going to be the vast majority of your damage

it is my main portion of damage, but not the only one.

I wouldn't be familiar with this because of my rogue's to-hit.

like i said, try harder difficulties.

Damage is needed. What I'm saying is that the small amount of damage you get from higher STR is not needed, and that there are benefits to focusing on other stats. Because rogues have high damage almost by default.

how do you know it is not needed? with hp inflation every point counts. i do like to focus on every stat if given the chance and need.

Almost the entire challenge with completing epic elite is surviving the incoming damage from trash. If its dead it can't do damage. In a full raid group, trash isn't as important, but in epic elites, almost the whole quest is trash.

so, again, some people focus on trash, some on bosses.

Better Assassinate is more important than a few points of damage.

except for bosses, right?

[Rogann]

why half orc and not halfling?

+3 pa and +2 damage from strength from half orc versus 8(-1str) from halfling guille( also +5 to hit on sneak attacks)?

however you get 1 point more use out of guille since you only get half strength on your off hand attacks?

on the other thought, sa does not multiply with crits. hmm. intresting thought.
ill put my math machine to work tommorow.

I beleive the math was already done in this thread by someone. Iirc halflings get +1 more dmg however horcs is base dmg where halflings is Sa dmg. However with the new enhancements change i speculate horcs will pull ahead(halfling racial pre=assassin and horcs racial pre=ravager).

[Rogann]

Explain what is exactly preventing low-STR rogues from using items that boost their STR. Because there is absolutely nothing that prevents them from doing that.

Its blatantly obvious nothings stopping them. Its the fact they dont. I told you that your missing gear in your str difference. Well its a fact. You cant tell me a dex/int rogue not only gets ALL the str items and then focuses on the dex/int items aswell? Seriously start seeing the picture here. The average dex/int rogue has low 20`s in str. Its a proven fact. Yes a "dex/int" rogue can go for all though's items but then he's just a str/int rogue.

[Qezuzu]

like i said, try harder difficulties.

There's nothing harder than epic elite, which is what I generally run. My to-hit is around 55, over 70 if I try.

how do you know it is not needed? with hp inflation every point counts. i do like to focus on every stat if given the chance and need.

There's a difference between "it's needed" and "it's helpful". Again, 12 STR would raise a well-geared rogue's DPS by only a small amount. 10 STR (I started with 14, not 12) would personally raise my DPS by 3.3%. I've been doing fine in all content with that, and my ISA isn't even functioning.

so, again, some people focus on trash, some on bosses.

except for bosses, right?

Focusing more heavily on INT and having lower STR doesn't mean you're neglecting your effectiveness against bosses. Again, under 5% increase in DPS. It's just really, really easy to be effective against bosses as a rogue.

[destiny4405]

There's nothing harder than epic elite, which is what I generally run. My to-hit is around 55, over 70 if I try.

got about the same to hit and was seeing grazing hits even on eh.

It's just really, really easy to be effective against bosses as a rogue.

yes, but i want to be really, really, really effective against bosses

[Qezuzu]

The average dex/int rogue has low 20`s in str. Its a proven fact.

You're a hoot.

You cant tell me a dex/int rogue not only gets ALL the str items and then focuses on the dex/int items aswell? Seriously start seeing the picture here.

For reference, I have exactly one item that boosts my INT, and I only wear it for Assassinating (Rahkir's Ring with INT). I also have exactly one item that boosts DEX (colorless slot). I think you're referencing DEX/INT rogues that max those stats. I would never recommend that.

Get enough DEX for ISA. I wouldn't go higher; even if a DEX to DMG feat comes out, DEX is still inferior for doing damage than STR, because of all the buffs available for STR. Also you're down a feat or two and can't use heavy weapons.

Then choose whether you want some more damage, or more skills and a better Assassinate. I think the latter is a better option, but that's me. Going for damage is perfectly fine, but it shouldn't be the knee-jerk response for people who are asking for build advice for a rogue.

[Qezuzu]

yes, but i want to be really, really, really effective against bosses

You are and so am I. Let's agree on that.

[Rogann]

You're a hoot.

What?

For reference, I have exactly one item that boosts my INT, and I only wear it for Assassinating (Rahkir's Ring with INT). I also have exactly one item that boosts DEX (colorless slot). I think you're referencing DEX/INT rogues that max those stats. I would never recommend that.

Get enough DEX for ISA. I wouldn't go higher; even if a DEX to DMG feat comes out, DEX is still inferior for doing damage than STR, because of all the buffs available for STR. Also you're down a feat or two and can't use heavy weapons.

Then choose whether you want some more damage, or more skills and a better Assassinate. I think the latter is a better option, but that's me. Going for damage is perfectly fine, but it shouldn't be the knee-jerk response for people who are asking for build advice for a rogue.

Not sure why your referencing me your build.

[Aerendil]

For clarification:

14 STR +3 tome
16 DEX +3 tome +2 level up (21 for ISA)
16 CON +4 tome +1 level up (21 for epic toughness)
16 INT +3 tome +3 level ups (22)
8 WIS/CHA

Now, actually looking at it, I'm not exactly sure what stat I'm supposed to based on. Just barely INT based perhaps. But it's not STR.

That looks eerily similar to what I'm at.
Minus the +4 con tome :/ Would love to grab eToughness - that's my next goal. But otherwise, exact same stat allocation.

Guess we're "generalist" Rogues?

[Jdoyle518]

I guess STR Rogues are cool in my book. lol not do my traps and pike thats what i want from you gimp.

[zafahor]

dude dex based rogues are teh best

[Rogann]

dude dex based rogues are teh best

Lies.

[Schnellcast]

Its a shame i cant tr again, im not wasteing 6 +3 tomes hehe.

Tomes retain after TR, you can TR now into a human and be the best you!

Edit: I feel like this has been covered though before... carry on