MAX DPS ROGUE build(assassin 3 str build/guide)

[Rogann]

Define strongest. I'll take the usefulness of dex over a few points of base dmg anyday.

"Strongest" as in the best build for a rogue. With so little bonuses to dex and so much for str why go dex?

When you're doing 120~ sneak dmg a hit, honestly, what's 10 more base dmg?

How does that make any sense?

[Xalir]

Iirc assassinate didn't work on red/orange named mobs. So having a chance to kill an already fast kill isn't exactly helping. Where as an extra 10 base dmg works on everything.

You pull your numbers out of thin air. It is not that you have 10 more base dmg. Not even close.

[Rogann]

Works on orange, not red (at least some orange).

Hmm I remember back in the echrono days orange names couldnt be insta-killed.

[Rogann]

You pull your numbers out of thin air. It is not that you have 10 more base dmg. Not even close.

It was an example..the average dex/int rogue has low 20's in str.

[Xalir]

It was an example..the average dex/int rogue has low 20's in str.

Fair enough. But what if said rogue already uses dex-to-dmg weapons? The gap is even closer. Or not existent. Cause that means you can have PA and Precision + all other rogue relevant feats.

[Rauven]

that's completely irrelevant. Having assassinate does nothing towards 'max dps' against bosses.

lol

[voodoogroves]

Hmm I remember back in the echrono days orange names couldnt be insta-killed.

I'm pretty sure I hit just about everyone except the end guy in LoD, but don't really pay attention.

FACT: STR is better against bosses; INT is better at clearing trash. If you run mostly boss-heavy content (raids), STR is generally better. If you run mostly trash-clearing content (epic questing), INT is probably better. DEX is weaker in general than either option right now, as there are minimal other benefits and defense in this game is generally secondary in usefulness to offense. Once DEX to damage becomes possible, DEX will still likely be at-best equal.


(and, FACT, base damage is small compared to sneak damage and lowering fort is easier than ever, so DEX isn't *that* far behind on most content)

[Edamame]

How is having a chance to make trash mobs die faster be max dps? Im talking boss beats here, if you want insta kills roll a caster...

Trash mobs, even in raids, are 97% of the quest! What determines max dps? Dps=damage per second. If I can kill a monster in one second with an instant kill(assasinate) then I think that would be top dps. I am not trashing your build as I have almost the exact same build. The only differance between yours and mine is I will(after my 4th and final life, which I am currently on) have an end game intel of 30. Add twist of fate dc to assasinate and epic midnight greeting in off hand. Flat out str based rogues currently have the top dps if they are getting backstab damage, but to say that assasinate is not dps is false. A casters firewall is dps(again damage per second)! I view finger of death as dps.

Again this is not a bash on this thread or build!! You and I just disagree on assasinate and the mindset that it is dps or not!

Good luck and look forward to updates regarding your build/post.

E

[destiny4405]

Trash mobs, even in raids, are 97% of the quest! What determines max dps? Dps=damage per second. If I can kill a monster in one second with an instant kill(assasinate) then I think that would be top dps. I am not trashing your build as I have almost the exact same build. The only differance between yours and mine is I will(after my 4th and final life, which I am currently on) have an end game intel of 30. Add twist of fate dc to assasinate and epic midnight greeting in off hand. Flat out str based rogues currently have the top dps if they are getting backstab damage, but to say that assasinate is not dps is false. A casters firewall is dps(again damage per second)! I view finger of death as dps.

Again this is not a bash on this thread or build!! You and I just disagree on assasinate and the mindset that it is dps or not!

Good luck and look forward to updates regarding your build/post.

E

first, assassinate and other instant death abilities are not DPS. DPS is meassured against bosses, where they do next to nothing.

second, while assassinate is awesome against sneak attackable trash, it also does nothing against some types of mobs. by going str, you maxed your efficacy against all monsters AND bosses, not just specialized for some mobs.

[Vengenance]

How would I not be maximizing my opportunity to SA? I mean im playing a rogue here. If I wanted mid 40's base dmg with no SA id roll a monk...

The more DPS you do the more aggro you get and if you are not careful with your attacks you'll have a higher liklihood of grabbnig aggro. If/when you grab aggro you'll be doing less DPS than a monk.

Lmao what? How are my builds a monstrosity? In my opinion There one of the most viable builds for endgame.

Corrected that for you. I think many on the forums would argue a caster or divine are the most viable builds for end game.

Good. Then you must know how dex builds are pointless and lacking.

A well played rogue will benifit any group whether its strength, dex, or int based. The player player driving the character is much more important than the specific build. Each flavor of build has it's place albeit dex rogues have fallen further behind.

[soloist12]

first, assassinate and other instant death abilities are not DPS. DPS is meassured against bosses, where they do next to nothing.

second, while assassinate is awesome against sneak attackable trash, it also does nothing against some types of mobs. by going str, you maxed your efficacy against all monsters AND bosses, not just specialized for some mobs.

Unless you're a 30+ int 40+ dex rogue with dual emgs. (2d6+10)+15 or more dex dmg mod with destintegrates and good aligned dmg with 30% crit chance)

Since they're finesse weapons, shadowdancer 3 is also granting 3% dbl strike.

Shadowdancer 5 bypasses all fort for bosses as well (let alone the 50% my rogue currently has until i vorpal the target where it becomes 100% for 12 seconds, resetting on the next vorpal).

What's before the boss in every raid? Lots of trash. Sure not everything can be assassinated, but now everything can be sneak-attacked. You might have a small levy there in base dmg, depending on the weapons we're each using. But what about the other 75% types that can be assassinated in raids? You'll be well behind an assassin.

I will say however, that by dumping int and cha, you can jack con up and have more hp and gear as such and it opens up a couple slots where you dont need to worry about int/cha/assassinate dc.

Besides, if you're dumping all the fun stuff a rogue can do, why not just roll a barb :/

[Rogann]

I'm pretty sure I hit just about everyone except the end guy in LoD, but don't really pay attention.

I confirmed it with a good friend. You can't assassinate orange named mobs.

[Rogann]

Corrected that for you. I think many on the forums would argue a caster or divine are the most viable builds for end game.

Since when am I talking about other classes on my rogue post?

[grandeibra]

I confirmed it with a good friend. You can't assassinate orange named mobs.

Your friend is partially right, partially wrong. So no, that was NOT confirmation ^^

[Quarterling]

It was an example..the average dex/int rogue has low 20's in str.

What if I told you my Int rogue has a standing Str in the high 30's? Just a bit lower strength than your build, and can assassinate ~90% of the time? Life 3. Reason why he has 5 levels of fighter is because I was using +5 hearts to get the Fighter PL. His str is slightly lower than normal since I wasn't caring about equipment at the time since 15 rog/5 ftr is meh.

[wax_on_wax_off]

What if I told you my Int rogue has a standing Str in the high 30's? Just a bit lower strength than your build, and can assassinate ~90% of the time? Life 3. Reason why he has 5 levels of fighter is because I was using +5 hearts to get the Fighter PL. His str is slightly lower than normal since I wasn't caring about equipment at the time since 15 rog/5 ftr is meh.

Omg, what a gimp, who wear's a +1 Wise Helmet at level 20?! /Reroll.

That int score could be misleading, I'd think an int based rogue would have higher int even without int gear?

And yes, an int based rogue can still have a very solid strength score (16 base+3 tome+1 enhancement+7 item+3 exceptional =30 for "basic" end game gear).

[Gridwalker]

Currently I am on my 4th life, all of them were Rogue lives, so I think I have some insight on this matter. I would like to say this:
1. Trash is trash, no one cares if I have two time more kills then anyone else in a party. I am Rogue so it is expected. On lvl 25 I will have 30 INT and that is enough with SD destiny maxed DC for assassinate to kill all the casters around. For heavy HP mobs there is Hold or Paralyze on eGreetings (still the best Rogue weapon, especially if u go SD destiny). 30 INT is maxed dmg from eGreetings too, so I think that that more then 14 INT to start is a waste of points (with +4 INT tome).
2. STR is slightly better then DEX. You don't need to go Horc but for best DPS with PA its a sold choice. Human/Helf is maybe a bit better cos of boosts, but they are situational.
3. Dead Rogue don't do damage. I think CON is the way to go. After U14 I don't miss, I don't use divine power, I simply go behind the mob and hit it. With SD and two new feats, Rogue survivability is going really up. When i reach 25 again I will have 900+ HP in "I would rather not die" mode (in SD destiny, with ED it will be even more) with shadow form (20% miss) with concealment (from Shadow Dragonmark II and from improved invisibility III and GS item) and from uncanny dodge or dodge chance from SD charges. I personally think its not so needed to put all your level to STR or INT.

[Dieterstrife]

Rogann, just a suggestion. Even you have agreed, precision can be better dps than PA. And that you are waiting on Ravager to see just how much more dps it will provide.

It is a compelling argument. I would like to make a suggestion for you. If you were to TR one more time, I would suggest going Human. And building pretty much the exact same build, and the extra feat from being Human would be for Precision. That way, you have both of the supreme dps feats, Human Versatility (again, max dps capability), and a more balanced stat setup. I personally (I'm never making this build, I don't have the patience) would make my starting stats 16 16 16 14 8 8. Yes yes blah blah -2 to hit and damage over the starting stats of your current build, blah blah blah. 2 lvl ups into dex (+3 tome makes 21 dex, SCHAWING ISA), and the rest of the lvl ups into str. I personally think this would give you a fantastic amount of dps, and allow you to actually be closer to max dps than what you currently are now. The Int score also allows you to have a decent assassinate, which you may just find incredibly handy.

You have to remember as well, Human is supposed to have access to all of the race prestiges. meaning that you could still go ravager

This is all just a long and not very well thought out design, but hey it would be something I think you would like.

[destiny4405]

Unless you're a 30+ int 40+ dex rogue with dual emgs. (2d6+10)+15 or more dex dmg mod with destintegrates and good aligned dmg with 30% crit chance)

emg's are not boss beaters. you need an arti for it. and if you have it, you'll be still behind, cause you won't have deadly.

Since they're finesse weapons, shadowdancer 3 is also granting 3% dbl strike.

so are rapiers and handwraps. your point?

Shadowdancer 5 bypasses all fort for bosses as well (let alone the 50% my rogue currently has until i vorpal the target where it becomes 100% for 12 seconds, resetting on the next vorpal).

no it doesn't. it makes enemies vulnerable to SA if they are immune. it doesn't remove targets fortification altogether.

What's before the boss in every raid? Lots of trash. Sure not everything can be assassinated, but now everything can be sneak-attacked. You might have a small levy there in base dmg, depending on the weapons we're each using. But what about the other 75% types that can be assassinated in raids? You'll be well behind an assassin.

i'm not after kills, i'm after damage. in which you will be behind.

Besides, if you're dumping all the fun stuff a rogue can do, why not just roll a barb :/

so, if rogue isn't specced in assassinate it might as well be a barb? funny, cause rogues are much more then that.

[Rauven]

so, if rogue isn't specced in assassinate it might as well be a barb? funny, cause rogues are much more then that.

Funny, cause your posts imply that you think rogue's are nothing more than "MOAH DPS," when they are so much more than that.