MAX DPS ROGUE build(assassin 3 str build/guide)

[Rogann]

EDIT: With the Mists of Ravenloft expansion release and my general disinterest with current DDO. I’ve decided to do a sort of retrospective guide/tribute to rogue. Doing this mostly for nostalgia and the odd chance we get a Pre-MotU server. This will be the Update 10 version of the guide. Rogues unfortunately peaked at Update 10. The Update 11 ‘fortification and damage buff’ on bosses nerfed rogues to the ground on difficulties above normal. Ill be going into the specifics at the end of the post. Update 11 essentially forced rogues to only run raids on normal. They were also limited to only two epic raids (eChrono and eVon 6). With the release of Update 14 (MotU expansion) the metagame changed over night. Essentially nerfing rogues to the point of uselessness. Even six years later rogues are still in a terrible spot. I highly recommend you check out my Update 13 version of this guide as there were lots of changes from Update 10. Click here to see it.

INTRO:
Rogues have the highest single target dps in the game. Relatively unknown to the general populous who just see them as gimp dps or trap monkeys. This build is meant to exploit rogues damage to the extreme. Focusing more on Raid Bosses. A couple caveats with rogues: Aggro and Fortification. These two things will be the end of you. Also be aware of the tedious nature of rogues. You just cant hop in and start attacking. You have to wait for other people to grab aggro first. Besides that rogues are incredibly fun and rewarding to play. Especially max dps rogues.

RACE:
Half-Orc
*Pure rogue level 20*

NOTE: Half-Orc is the highest dps race as of Update 10 thanks to the permanent +4 base damage and three extra Haste Boosts.

ALIGNMENT:
True Neutral

STATS: 32 point build
Str 20
Dex 15
Con 15
Int 6
Wis 8
Cha 6

NOTE: Requires +2 Dex tome. Raise Con to 16, then Int if 34 point build. (lower Dex to 14 if +3 Dex tome) If you are a 36 point build and have a +3 Dex tome you can actually eliminate the need for a +4 Con Tome by starting with 17 Con. Put the last point into Int.

STAT LEVEL-UPS:
All into Strength (5)

STAT ANALYSIS:

• Int: You may say HA! You gimp! In reality you don't need Int. With easily obtainable gear, you can find and disable any epic traps.

FEATS:

• Two Weapon Fighting
• Improved Two Weapon Fighting
• Greater Two Weapon Fighting
• Power Attack
• Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
• Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
• Past Life: Sneak of Shadows (QuickDraw if you don't have)

ROGUE FEATS:

• Opportunist
• Skill Mastery
• Improved Evasion
• Skill Mastery

NOTE: The feats listed above aren't in order. Simply choose the ones you prefer whilst leveling. Quickdraw removes the one second delay when activating boosts or switching weapons. The dps gain from this should not be ignored.

ENHANCEMENTS:
ASSASSIN 3 PRE REQS:

• Improved Hide 2
• Improved Move Silenty 2
• SA Accuracy 4
• SA Training 4
• Subtle Backstabbing 1
• Rogue Damage Boost 2

ALL ENHANCEMENTS:

• Improved Hide 2
• Improved Move Silenty 2
• Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery 1
• SA Accuracy 4
• SA Training 4
• Subtle Backstabbing 4
• Rogue Damage Boost 2
• Rogue Haste Boost 4
• Rogue Deadly Shadow (capstone, 4d6 SA damage/+2 int)
• Orcish Extra Action Boost 3
• Orcish Power Attack 2
• Orcish Strength 2
• Rogue Extra Action Boost 2
• Rogue Assassin 3

NOTE: I decided to opt for ‘Rogue Extra Action Boost 2’ over ‘Orcish Power Attack 3’. It’s an extra Haste Boost vs +1 damage/-1 to-hit with Power Attack. You’ll have one or two AP leftover respectively with no dps enhancements left to pick. Simply choose what you prefer. If you have the Tharne's Wrath set from DT Armor you may be able to drop 'Subtle Backstabbing 4' and pick up 'Orcish Power Attack 3' if you feel the extra threat reduction isn't needed.

SKILLS:

• Disable Device
• Open Lock
• Search
• UMD

NOTE: Rest are up to you (I go for jump, balance and concentration).

GEAR:
NOTE: This gear layout is the most optimal set up for Str Rogues.

• Helm: Epic Helm of the Red Dragon
• Necklace: Shintao Cord
• Bauble: Epic Bloodstone
• Cloak: Epic Envenomed Cloak
• Belt: Colethenis's Belt
• Ring 1: Kyosho's Ring (+2 Exceptional Con)
• Ring 2: Ring of The Ravager (+2 Exceptional Str)
• Gloves: Epic Charged Gauntlets
• Boots: Epic Boots of Corrosion
• Bracers: Min 2 Green Steel (45 hp/heavyfort/protection +5)
• Armor: Dragontouched Armor (Tharnes Wrath slotted)
• Goggles: Tharne's Goggles

WEAPONS:

• NO DR: Lit 2 Khopesh
• DR: Holy Silver of GEOB or Appropriate DR breakers

GEAR NOTES:

• Dragontouched Armor vs Epic Redscale: Dragontouched armor slotted with Tharnes Wrath (-20% threat with Tharnes Goggles) is best in slot. Redscale is useless in nearly every raid. Reavers, Abbot, and Epic Chronoscope when the boss isn’t Fire Immune being the exceptions. Redscale works the majority of the time in quests however due to all the bosses having 0% fort you pull aggro incredibly fast. With the added versatility of the other two Dragontouched Armor slots I cant justify using Redscale. Threat reduction is too important. If you truly want to min/max and have a tank capable of holding aggro use Redscale.
• Trinkets: If you lost your ship buffs and the enemy isn't resistant to Electric damage or has Evasion switch to Greater Bold Trinket. If you miss on anything besides a 1 swap to Cannith Crafted Trinket with +4 to-hit.
• Augment Slots: Will have to slot Greater False Life, Toughness, +1 Exceptional Con, +2 luck bonus, Fear Immunity and others depending on your preference.
• Trap Gear: You'll need a UMD, +6 int, +20 search, +15 disable/openlock items. (I used Epic Kundarak Delving Goggles with +6 Int slotted and Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass for the UMD and +20 search if it was needed)
• Resists: 30 acid/lightning, 40 fire perma resists

NOTE: This is what the build looks like finished. 100% Unbuffed. Has +4 Str tome. I'm only missing the Epic Bloodstone and a +4 Con tome in this screenshot. HP would be 445. Remember that at this time +4 tomes were incredibly rare and were not sold in the ddo store. You had to pray that you saw it in your 20th ToD list or loot it in an Epic Raid.




NOTE: Average damage output of the build. Hardly buffed at all (Pastlife: Rogue being the one exception). I'm also missing about 3 base damage from tomes and Shintao tod set. If you’re still wondering how rogues had the highest possible single target dps in the game think about this. Sneak Attack damage applied to off-hand procs (80% chance thanks to Greater Two Weapon Fighting) at full damage. By only counting non-crit base damage and Sneak Attack the average damage for a single swing is around 230+. You can see how ridiculous this gets. Now add in Haste Boost, Pastlife Rogue, crits, vorpal hands, doublestrike, and item procs like ravager/redscale/shocking blow/lightning strike. Insane dps.



THE DEATH OF ROGUES:

• Update 11: The Update 11 ‘fortification and damage buff’ on bosses nerfed rogues to the ground on any difficulty above Normal. Rogues got 60% or more of their dps by Sneak Attack. Suddenly every raid boss had 65% fort on Hard, and 80% on Elite. Epic Velah and a couple others had 0% fortification prior to Update 11 which were raised to 50%. Not only that but raid boss damage was buffed on all difficulties hurting rogues even more due to their limited health pools. Now you had to rely on your party members to lower the fort for you. Unless you assembled the properly specced dream team (Fvs, fighter, monk) you were boned on any difficulty above normal. Forget about Epic DQ and ELOB raids (80% fort). To make matters worse Opportunist was bugged until Update 12 or later (i'm not actually sure if it was fixed). Where the 10% fort pen would only work for the base damage portion and not the Sneak Attack portion. Not only that but that bug may have persisted with other Fortification reducing abilities like Improved Sunder. Update 11 was rogues untimely death. If you are curious about what people thought of the fortification change click here. Keep in mind that the Update 11 fort changes were completely unwarranted. Melee dps numbers were all within 10% of each other at 50% fort. In fact due to Opportunist being bugged rogues were just barely at the top if not just below the top dps builds. More info here. Keep in mind those calcs assumed Opportunist was working (which it wasn't).
• Update 14 (MotU): When MotU launched the metagame changed over night. Gone was the classic mmo trinity (Healers, Dps, Tank). Suddenly ranged aoe self healing builds were king and single target dps builds were garbage. This was also the start of the giant packs of mobs quest design. Essentially nerfing rogues to the point of uselessness. Even six years and 23 updates later rogues are still in a terrible spot.

[.Revenga.]

solid build, good advice, but for max dps,
i guess you should consider going human/halfelf aswell.

You'll be able to take both the PL and toughness which is nice, but the dps thing is
being able to take human versatility line for a damage boost that can be activated simultaneously
with your haste boost and increases both attack damage and your SA damage.

You loose the PA enhancements and some str, but a +25% boost on all your damage makes up for that :-p

[Absolute-Omniscience]

solid build, good advice, but for max dps,
i guess you should consider going human/halfelf aswell.

You'll be able to take both the PL and toughness which is nice, but the dps thing is
being able to take human versatility line for a damage boost that can be activated simultaneously
with your haste boost and increases both attack damage and your SA damage.

You loose the PA enhancements and some str, but a +25% boost on all your damage makes up for that :-p

This. Human or half elf would mean more damage, and more utility. I'd consider human since the extra feat is quite **** useful on a rogue.

[Feithlin]

Human or Helf because of racial Damage boost? I have not run the numbers, but it's probably not very far behind, if ever, on burst dps. (*Edit: beaten on that one )
Horcs are more or less on par with halflings on dps: Guile III (there's no easy way to get IV on a pure rogue) adds +6 SA damage, while horcs get up to +6 Str, +3 from improved PA. The main difference is +4 to-hit in favor of halflings (Cunning III and +1 racial), but more action boosts for horcs so: a better burst dps for horcs, but a better for halflings when all haste boosts have run out. Both would be better than humans/helves in this situation.
Maybe I forgot something though, it's a bit late

[karl_k0ch]

Crippling Strike is largely useless in endgame content.

I wouldn't take Rogue Dex, or Improved Search, but rather enhancing the versatility of the build, taking either of Wrack Construct or Wand & Scroll Mastery.

Speaking of Versatility: What's your UMD projection?

It's a pain that you have to pick three from Khopesh/PL:SoS/Toughness. Mentioning Completionist is silly, as you are already too tight on feats.

Skills: As you said yourself: A dead rogue deals no damage. How much damage does a knocked-down rogue deal? I suggest to invest in balance, at least after reading a +2 tome.

Where do you slot the guild HP item? Did you check if there is room for all the Slots you mentioned?

Str-based, Horc does more damage than Halfling. Check A-Os DPS calc for more details.

You mentioned that Epic traps are doable even with 6 starting int. This might be true. What about traps while leveling? Will this build require having another trapmonkey in group if you want to run elite monastery?

Imho, this build is doable, but sacrifices too much for improving one aspect of rogue which is already a strong one. I wouldn't play this over a Max-Str Halfling with moderate other stats and room for GS items and a standing 38 UMD.
Note that my Halfling ends up with less DPS, but more HP, namely 447 when ship-buffed (excluding rage, madstone etc.).

[Rogann]

Crippling Strike is largely useless in endgame content.

I wouldn't take Rogue Dex, or Improved Search, but rather enhancing the versatility of the build, taking either of Wrack Construct or Wand & Scroll Mastery.

Speaking of Versatility: What's your UMD projection?

It's a pain that you have to pick three from Khopesh/PL:SoS/Toughness. Mentioning Completionist is silly, as you are already too tight on feats.

Skills: As you said yourself: A dead rogue deals no damage. How much damage does a knocked-down rogue deal? I suggest to invest in balance, at least after reading a +2 tome.

Where do you slot the guild HP item? Did you check if there is room for all the Slots you mentioned?

Str-based, Horc does more damage than Halfling. Check A-Os DPS calc for more details.

You mentioned that Epic traps are doable even with 6 starting int. This might be true. What about traps while leveling? Will this build require having another trapmonkey in group if you want to run elite monastery?

Imho, this build is doable, but sacrifices too much for improving one aspect of rogue which is already a strong one. I wouldn't play this over a Max-Str Halfling with moderate other stats and room for GS items and a standing 38 UMD.
Note that my Halfling ends up with less DPS, but more HP, namely 447 when ship-buffed (excluding rage, madstone etc.).

I personally only took dex to get an even #(i ate +3 supreme tome) hmm my unbuffed umd is 30, 95%-100% on a heal scroll depending on buffs/skill boosts and yes it may be silly but hey, gotta see max str for a rogue.

With max gear/tokens i can only put out 420 unbuffed(note the epic kronzek's cruelty gains you 40 hp, only thing i can do atm) will put me at 460 unbuffed which i am going for atm.

This build is purely endgame, i could care less about lvling up.(can get to a 62 search and like 57 disable i beleive at 20)

Considering im at 440 with only a ship buff(same buff as you, 7hp<more dps)id rather take my build.

50%-fvs crown of redemption
8% improved destruction (4% for destruction)
10% opportunits
25%- monk touch of death
10% improved sunder

[Kmnh]

If you have the gear to support the to-hit loss, swap khopesh proficiency for quick draw and laugh at the penalty

[Rogann]

Thanks to all the advice, didnt know you could have two boosts going at the same time(helf or human, goes to show ya ive never played human heh) plus forgot about the extra human feat(toughness), and eventually when i get the duel epic kronzeks i will be able to have 2 toughnesses putting me over 600 hp buffed. Its a shame i cant tr again, im not wasteing 6 +3 tomes hehe.
Gonna have to talk to a fellow bud about human rogues, since he was one for 2 lifes.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I'd definitely drop strength to 18 and increase intelligence to 12. That is +1 attack/+1 damage you're missing but for it you get a bunch of extra skill points, much easier time on traps while leveling and in epics and +3 assassinate DC.

I really don't see the point in building a pure rogue of any kind without trying for at least a decent assassinate DC, it is just such a powerful ability now that it works in epics.

I think that toughness is required on a rogue. I don't see that you will ever have enough HP without it. This is unfortunately the cost of being a half-orc pure rogue in that you can't fit in everything that you want. Human becomes quite interesting when you can take SoS and Khopesh and the DPS doesn't suffer much as you can combine versatility: damage and haste boost for some brutal burst DPS (but it suffers in the new longer raids obviously).

Rogues are very useful in the main raid with high fortification on the boss - LoB - due to a very important ability: Wrack Construct which I notice that you've skipped in your enhancements. This ability by itself will make any rogue a welcome addition to any epic lob group.

Main weapon of choice is usually radiance for the blindness proc which gives you sneak attacks. Much more DPS than litII's usually.

Int builds are perfectly viable. For instance, if you did the same gear and tome load out on a human with 16 starting strength and 16 starting intelligence with level ups into intelligence then you end up with enough assassinate DC to instant kill better than most completionist palemasters and can still have enough strength (with relevant boosts) to only lose a few points of % off your raid DPS (as most rogue DPS comes from sneak attacks anyway).

[.Revenga.]

I'd definitely drop strength to 18 and increase intelligence to 12. That is +1 attack/+1 damage you're missing but for it you get a bunch of extra skill points, much easier time on traps while leveling and in epics and +3 assassinate DC.

I really don't see the point in building a pure rogue of any kind without trying for at least a decent assassinate DC, it is just such a powerful ability now that it works in epics.

I think that toughness is required on a rogue. I don't see that you will ever have enough HP without it. This is unfortunately the cost of being a half-orc pure rogue in that you can't fit in everything that you want. Human becomes quite interesting when you can take SoS and Khopesh and the DPS doesn't suffer much as you can combine versatility: damage and haste boost for some brutal burst DPS (but it suffers in the new longer raids obviously).

Rogues are very useful in the main raid with high fortification on the boss - LoB - due to a very important ability: Wrack Construct which I notice that you've skipped in your enhancements. This ability by itself will make any rogue a welcome addition to any epic lob group.

Main weapon of choice is usually radiance for the blindness proc which gives you sneak attacks. Much more DPS than litII's usually.

Int builds are perfectly viable. For instance, if you did the same gear and tome load out on a human with 16 starting strength and 16 starting intelligence with level ups into intelligence then you end up with enough assassinate DC to instant kill better than most completionist palemasters and can still have enough strength (with relevant boosts) to only lose a few points of % off your raid DPS (as most rogue DPS comes from sneak attacks anyway).

ugh, don't start about int-rogues in a max dps thread please. Assasinate is a utility that is massivly overshadowed by arcanes and does nothing to improve dps when it's needed: on red/purple names. Trash is trash, no one cares about it.

To OP: the changes for the damage boost making it useful came live with U11, so rather recently.

[karl_k0ch]

Re: Helf vs. Human.

I do not see great advantages of going Helf on a pure Khopesh Rogue. The dillys are nice; in particular Barb, Pally and Monk, but the latter two require some stat investment. But nice is not enough when Human is the only race which allows Toughness, PA, Khopesh Proficiency and SoS. (Yes, the Proficiency can be dropped eventually.)
The extra skill point is just icing on the cake.

[destiny4405]

max dps a rogue can do is with human damage boost IV turned on at the same time as haste boost IV. yes, horc will surpass it eventually, but he has quite some catching up to do first when the boosts run out.

that said, this build can work pretty well. gonna be a bit rough if leveling on elite because of the traps, but shouldn't have any problems with traps at the endgame if buffed properly.

litany provides profane bonus to abillities, same as abi set, so +4 str/con tome and litany wouldn't mean much.

420 unbuffed hp is low. and that's with 32 con, which i don't see.

15base +3tome +7item +3abi +1exc +2exc = 31. where do you get one more?

i would drop one or two abi pieces and get gs hp. 400 hp cant even get you into shroud these days

[Rogann]

max dps a rogue can do is with human damage boost IV turned on at the same time as haste boost IV. yes, horc will surpass it eventually, but he has quite some catching up to do first when the boosts run out.

that said, this build can work pretty well. gonna be a bit rough if leveling on elite because of the traps, but shouldn't have any problems with traps at the endgame if buffed properly.

litany provides profane bonus to abillities, same as abi set, so +4 str/con tome and litany wouldn't mean much.

420 unbuffed hp is low. and that's with 32 con, which i don't see.

15base +3tome +7item +3abi +1exc +2exc = 31. where do you get one more?

i would drop one or two abi pieces and get gs hp. 400 hp cant even get you into shroud these days

Hmm well 32 con with toughness and gfl. I personally went 16 con base and ate a +3 con tome. And it's me Gimpforlife from good old Sarlona hehe

Oh, it's a bit to late for me to get GS, I'd only gain 15hp at the loss of the helm and bracers resulting in a total waste of epic tokens.

[grodon9999]

Human.

[xTethx]

Go tharnes with litany, craft hp item on necklace, and use the new epic ring of stalker. You net 25 hp, 5 more sneak dmg, seeker 6, manslayer (not sure if this stacks with assassin 3 vorpal effect on humanoids), 2 slots (0 really cause you lose gem and need to slot +6 wis to replace tod ring), +1 profane dmg, and a shroud tier 3 effect (radiance maybe?). You lose = 1 fort save, +2 wisdom, +3 to hit (when you have aggro, this cancels with the ring when you dont have aggro), +3 reflex.

These are just my suggestions. Gl with the build.

[Mellkor]

ugh, don't start about int-rogues in a max dps thread please. Assasinate is a utility that is massivly overshadowed by arcanes and does nothing to improve dps when it's needed: on red/purple names. Trash is trash, no one cares about it.

To OP: the changes for the damage boost making it useful came live with U11, so rather recently.

LOL

well, while you are busy beating down devils and orothons in say, eDA, an int based assassin is one-shoting them, and often two at a time. All while still doing 80% or so the dps this build offers up on bosses and 100% fort mobs. Figure that into your DPS calculator and the int based comes out WAY ahead. I think the int based is much more fun to play. A build like this is better done and will get better results by going fighter or barb, IMO, because this build just seems to play out more like a front line fighter instead of the classic sneaky role of a rogue, which for me is the whole point of going rogue!

[karl_k0ch]

well, while you are busy beating down devils and orothons in say, eDA, an int based assassin is one-shoting them, and often two at a time.

That's .Revenga.'s point, I suppose. If there are melees on the trash, the Arcanes are Doing it Wrong™. Under optimal conditions, that is.

[Miow]

Yeah mine is going to be human as well, plus having such a low int doesn't scream traps to me it screams my assassinate dc!(which owns when it's high enough)

A str rogue with a good intel/assasinate is very achievable

[karl_k0ch]

With max gear/tokens i can only put out 420 unbuffed(note the epic kronzek's cruelty gains you 40 hp, only thing i can do atm) will put me at 460 unbuffed which i am going for atm.

Please note that Rogues are not proficient with Scimitars. (Unless they are Elves, or Helves with the fighter dilly.) So you will either have the same penalty as with Khopeshes, or it will cost you another feat.

[Qezuzu]

To-hit is not an issue for rogues. Not only can BAB be artificially increased, rogues are the most likely to be flanking, most likely to have the bonus from Tharne's, have +4 to SA accuracy from enhancements, and SoS is another +5 when active. I can hit epic Turigalon and Malicia on a 2 at the beginning of my attack sequence, without Destruction or sunder, and with PA and oversized penalty.