Torc Proc Rate and a Few Other Guard Proc Rates

[Vanshilar]

I happen to have a Torc on my barbarian so I went to test out its proc rate. Unfortunately, I don't have a conc opp since I don't play casters, so I'm not able to test it currently.

The testing location was the entrance of "The Tide Turns" on elite. After killing the caster and some of the melee trash, there are 7 archers left, ideal for testing proc rates of guard effects that proc from ranged. As usual, video was taken and then I analyzed the video's combat log. Unfortunately I probably won't be uploading the videos again because like before, they're very long and it takes a long time to get them uploaded. The videos totaled 3.8 hours.

At this point it might be worthwhile to differentiate between different types of guard effects. They are all when a monster tries to attack you, rather than when you attack a monster (some monsters also have guard effects, in which case it's when you attack them). Generally guard effects can be split into three types:

* Proc on attack (which I also call "hit attempt"): when an attack is done. Things like blurry are in this category, in fact usually these procs determine whether or not the attack goes through or is stopped via the proc.
* Proc on hit: when an attack successfully hits a target. This does not mean that it actually damaged a target, since the target may have DR, elemental resistance, etc., but it means that the combat roll was made and it was successful (did not miss).
* Proc on damage: When an attack hits a target and does damage to the target. This means that there was some amount of damage which the target didn't fully mitigate.

Torc falls into the third category, procs only when the victim actually takes damage past his DR. I verified it by looking through when it procs and seeing if the hit that caused it did damage. I also double-checked by using a shield (which was sufficient to block all damage), and got hit 30 times without having the torc proc, which has a 0.76% (1 in 131) chance of happening.

Summary of results:
Torc:
* Proc on damage: 14.9% +- 0.6% (95% confidence interval), so likely 15%
* Damage: Average 22.502, stdev 3.812, so likely 5d6+5
I should note that this is the proc rate for ranged attacks. There was some forum speculation about it being different for ranged vs melee attacks, which was not tested here.

The distribution of SP gain from torc was:

SPgain	Count
11	2
12	3
13	6
14	18
15	30
16	46
17	63
18	116
19	141
20	191
21	188
22	197
23	178
24	191
25	150
26	122
27	103
28	84
29	50
30	34
31	20
32	9
33	7

Mabar cloak invis effect:
* Proc on damage: 10.2 +- 1.6% (95% confidence interval), so likely 10%

Levik's Defender heal effect:
* Proc on damage: 2.13 +- 0.25% (95% confidence interval), so likely 2% (it says so in the combat log, but worth verifying)
* Heals for 90 damage base, affected by healing amp

The dataset was:
* 69808 attacks
* 15493 hits (including those where 0 damage was dealt due to DR)
* 13120 damaging hits (where damage was taken)
* 1949 torc procs
* 279 Levik's Defender heal procs

The Mabar cloak was only used a portion of the time; it procced 146 times out of 1426 damaging hits while it was being used.

For the torc, in effect it means an average SP gain of 3.375 SP per damaging hit. This might be useful to know if you're trying to get SP back. For example, if you heal yourself for 200 HP and it costs 30 SP (just making up numbers because I'm not that familiar with healers), you had better be taking less than 3.375*200/30 = 22.5 damage per hit, because otherwise you're losing net HP/SP trying to use the torc to recharge.

[Infant]

I happen to have a Torc on my barbarian so I went to test out its proc rate. Unfortunately, I don't have a conc opp since I don't play casters, so I'm not able to test it currently.

The testing location was the entrance of "The Tide Turns" on elite. After killing the caster and some of the melee trash, there are 7 archers left, ideal for testing proc rates of guard effects that proc from ranged. As usual, video was taken and then I analyzed the video's combat log. Unfortunately I probably won't be uploading the videos again because like before, they're very long and it takes a long time to get them uploaded. The videos totaled 3.8 hours.

At this point it might be worthwhile to differentiate between different types of guard effects. They are all when a monster tries to attack you, rather than when you attack a monster (some monsters also have guard effects, in which case it's when you attack them). Generally guard effects can be split into three types:

* Proc on attack (which I also call "hit attempt"): when an attack is done. Things like blurry are in this category, in fact usually these procs determine whether or not the attack goes through or is stopped via the proc.
* Proc on hit: when an attack successfully hits a target. This does not mean that it actually damaged a target, since the target may have DR, elemental resistance, etc., but it means that the combat roll was made and it was successful (did not miss).
* Proc on damage: When an attack hits a target and does damage to the target. This means that there was some amount of damage which the target didn't fully mitigate.

Torc falls into the third category, procs only when the victim actually takes damage past his DR. I verified it by looking through when it procs and seeing if the hit that caused it did damage. I also double-checked by using a shield (which was sufficient to block all damage), and got hit 30 times without having the torc proc, which has a 0.76% (1 in 131) chance of happening.

Summary of results:
Torc:
* Proc on damage: 14.9% +- 0.6% (95% confidence interval), so likely 15%
* Damage: Average 22.502, stdev 3.812, so likely 5d6+5
I should note that this is the proc rate for ranged attacks. There was some forum speculation about it being different for ranged vs melee attacks, which was not tested here.

The distribution of SP gain from torc was:

SPgain    Count
11    2
12    3
13    6
14    18
15    30
16    46
17    63
18    116
19    141
20    191
21    188
22    197
23    178
24    191
25    150
26    122
27    103
28    84
29    50
30    34
31    20
32    9
33    7

Mabar cloak invis effect:
* Proc on damage: 10.2 +- 1.6% (95% confidence interval), so likely 10%

Levik's Defender heal effect:
* Proc on damage: 2.13 +- 0.25% (95% confidence interval), so likely 2% (it says so in the combat log, but worth verifying)
* Heals for 90 damage base, affected by healing amp

The dataset was:
* 69808 attacks
* 15493 hits (including those where 0 damage was dealt due to DR)
* 13120 damaging hits (where damage was taken)
* 1949 torc procs
* 279 Levik's Defender heal procs

The Mabar cloak was only used a portion of the time; it procced 146 times out of 1426 damaging hits while it was being used.

For the torc, in effect it means an average SP gain of 3.375 SP per damaging hit. This might be useful to know if you're trying to get SP back. For example, if you heal yourself for 200 HP and it costs 30 SP (just making up numbers because I'm not that familiar with healers), you had better be taking less than 3.375*200/30 = 22.5 damage per hit, because otherwise you're losing net HP/SP trying to use the torc to recharge.

nice, +1

[Dandonk]

Very nice work, thanks for testing this!

[Bart_D]

Very nice work, highly appreciated.

Have you tested other proc rates or have links to similar tests?

[DragonMageT]

The extent that you test / verify items and effects never ceases to amaze me.

Thanks for not uploading the video, I may have been tempted to watch (at least part of it) , 3.8 hours Wow!

Nice work, +1

[noinfo]

For the torc, in effect it means an average SP gain of 3.375 SP per damaging hit. This might be useful to know if you're trying to get SP back. For example, if you heal yourself for 200 HP and it costs 30 SP (just making up numbers because I'm not that familiar with healers), you had better be taking less than 3.375*200/30 = 22.5 damage per hit, because otherwise you're losing net HP/SP trying to use the torc to recharge.

Except there are so many other options to self heal on them rather then spell points. Auras, woh, even scrolls while shield blocking make the incoming damage not really that important.

[Kinerd]

Very nice!

DéjÃ* vu...

[PestWulf]

I think the Devs just need to make a subscribe to Vanshilar button. Seriously. I always love your threads, pure non-opinionated data.

Thank you!

[donfilibuster]

Wish i could partake in pondering the torc's proc rate but atm i'm engaged wondering the torc drop rate.
But only been two 20th so maybe third is the charm.

[Barazon]

**** that's a lot of video to wade through to count up all the attacks, procs, etc! If only DDO had a /log <filename> command like EverQuest, crunching data like this would be so much easier.

[countfitz]

Nice.

[dmslasher]

**** that's a lot of video to wade through to count up all the attacks, procs, etc! If only DDO had a /log <filename> command like EverQuest, crunching data like this would be so much easier.

it would also be nice if they simply told us what they were seting the proc rates at on the items. that way it also makes verifing a real number easier. if your already know what number your trying to hit you dont need to have the -+ factor as much cuz you can account for it in just the randomness of it.

[Havok.cry]

Slightly off topic, but does an arties stuff effect the caster level of stuff that procs or just stuff that is activated?

[PNellesen]

For the torc, in effect it means an average SP gain of 3.375 SP per damaging hit. This might be useful to know if you're trying to get SP back. For example, if you heal yourself for 200 HP and it costs 30 SP (just making up numbers because I'm not that familiar with healers), you had better be taking less than 3.375*200/30 = 22.5 damage per hit, because otherwise you're losing net HP/SP trying to use the torc to recharge.

This is where it's so nice to be a Cleric with a decent Radiant Servant aura - I can shield block with my aura going and get some decent SP back without using any for healing.

[WruntJunior]

This is where it's so nice to be a Cleric with a decent Radiant Servant aura - I can shield block with my aura going and get some decent SP back without using any for healing.

This is where it's nice to have a free cure light wounds...just shield block and occasionally heal myself for free. >_>

[teh_meh]

For the torc, in effect it means an average SP gain of 3.375 SP per damaging hit. This might be useful to know if you're trying to get SP back. For example, if you heal yourself for 200 HP and it costs 30 SP (just making up numbers because I'm not that familiar with healers), you had better be taking less than 3.375*200/30 = 22.5 damage per hit, because otherwise you're losing net HP/SP trying to use the torc to recharge.

I want to say thank you for your hard work on this. That is my utmost feedback.

On a secondary note, I really really hope you didn't pull a Torq on a barb instead of putting it up for roll.

On a final note, don't worry about the SP return:damage ratio. Just refill your blue bar and scroll heal yourself back up.

[Darknark]

First, thanks to the OP for the hard work and nice data.

don't worry about the SP return:damage ratio. Just refill your blue bar and scroll heal yourself back up.

^^ The SP return : damage ratio comes into play mainly when using a caster as a maintank in raids. (Even then, fvs capstone or Silver Flame pots for anyone can semi-eliminate this)

Elsewhere you can just scroll.

[MRMechMan]

Very nice work OP...thank you.

[Symerith]

+1 for taking the time to analyse this. Extremely useful information!

[Snootch]

For the torc, in effect it means an average SP gain of 3.375 SP per damaging hit. This might be useful to know if you're trying to get SP back. For example, if you heal yourself for 200 HP and it costs 30 SP (just making up numbers because I'm not that familiar with healers), you had better be taking less than 3.375*200/30 = 22.5 damage per hit, because otherwise you're losing net HP/SP trying to use the torc to recharge.

Taking damage in order to get about 3 SP per hit (on average) and trying to take less than 22 damage each time is more challenging and costly than instead simply relying on something great like the Divine Vitality III from a Cleric (7d4 + 10 SP at "100% proc rate" => 20 TUs x 30 SP = 600 SP) or a Spellsinger's Spellsong Vigor (let's say 250 SP at "100% proc rate" => 20 songs x 250 SP = 5,000 SP). (Turns and Songs regenerate for Clerics (automatically with Radiant Servant PE) and Bards (with Anthem item enchantment) at no cost other than time.)

In comparison, if Vanshilar's numbers are right, in order to get 600 SP out of a TKE item like the Torc, your character would have to suffer between 18 and 55 damaging hits that actually proc. With a 15% proc rate, your Torc-wearer will have to take roughly between 120 to 367 damaging hits just to finally reach that 600 SP figure that a Cleric could award you without requiring you to take any damage or waiting much longer than the time it takes him to click his hotbar twenty times. (Most full-party healers easily have 20+ TUs.) And taking 300 damaging hits at the upper levels of this game is... dangerous, to say the least - especially for robe-wearers.

And as Vanshilar points out, in order to break even, you're going to want to take less than 22 damage on each hit somehow. 22 damage x 300 hits = 6,600 points of damage just to break even and pick up 600 SP. (Which will vanish if you use that SP to heal yourself.)

That's like saying that every 1 SP will cost you 11 HP. Not only that, how much time, money, and damage does it take to amount a useful amount of SP utilizing this method? In order to heal yourself with scrolls or wands, to be able to take that kind of damage, and to be able to reduce the damage as much as possible, your spellcaster will be built, dressed, and acting like a tank, which is wholly different altogether. It will also cost you a lot of money, and your overall spellcaster prowess will be less than what a specialist will have.

My advice is to create a character who specializes in a DDO party role (determined by the Prestige Enhancement) and then play in full, balanced parties. It is so much more fun to let others do their jobs instead of thinking that you can do "well enough" by yourself. You might be "good enough," and that might be fun for you. However, you can also be the best at your position and also have fun. And if you follow that advice, you won't have to tank with your spellcasters or otherwise water-down your character for both melee and ranged/spellcasting duties. Besides, playing to multiplayer strategies is what a MMO is all about; DDO is a (massively) multi-player game. Don't play all by your lonesome when there are thousands of people who understand party roles who are online right now. Make friends by being friendly. Then you don't have to play by yourself. It is a lot more fun to play a multiplayer game to multiplayer strategies. Don't take my word for it; try it yourself. Perhaps then you will see that relying on money, time, and Torc will be an antiquated single-player strategy that you don't have to settle for.


Snootch