Level16 challenge gear now supeiror to lvl20, in some cases

[Shade]

The craftable +3 on the gear is far superor vs the colorless slot.. So for item sthat don't gave massive benenfits, the 16 versions are quite a bit better.

Seems a bit broken.

EG:

Blasting chime:
The 20 version only gains greater evocation focus... So for melees using this for hte purposes of the nice guard + weaken construct ability, thats a non issue.

Add +2 to hit bonus in the craftable +3 = lvl16 version wins.

or

Mournlode chain:
Mainly just gains AC..

So for anyone that actuall runs epic and knows AC does nothing:
Add lifeshield on the 16 version instead = far superior.

lots more examples im sure.

How to Fix:
Tier2 epic = Craftable +4, not near-useless colorless slot.

[krzyysiek098]

(...) lots more examples im sure (...)

...or a lvl 16 Bracers of Wind which give dodge +3 and can be stotted with dodge +1 using Cannith Crafting. Very good for AC character IMO (unless you have dodge +1 elsewhere) and easier to get.

[grodon9999]

...or a lvl 16 Bracers of Wind which give dodge +3 and can be stotted with dodge +1 using Cannith Crafting. Very good for AC character IMO (unless you have dodge +1 elsewhere) and easier to get.

WOW! I think I need to change my shorts!

The epic stuff should get craftable AND slots.

[LeLoric]

WOW! I think I need to change my shorts!

The epic stuff should get craftable AND slots.

Yeah im gonna have to bank my lev 20 ones or swap to someone who casts spells.

[grodon9999]

...or a lvl 16 Bracers of Wind which give dodge +3 and can be stotted with dodge +1 using Cannith Crafting. Very good for AC character IMO (unless you have dodge +1 elsewhere) and easier to get.

Wait a tick . . . can you crafted Dodge 2 on these bracers? This opens up some potentially ubber-gearing options.

[LeLoric]

Wait a tick . . . can you crafted Dodge 2 on these bracers? This opens up some potentially ubber-gearing options.

Nope it's a +4 enhancment and crafting is a +3 max

[grodon9999]

Nope it's a +4 enhancment and crafting is a +3 max

In a way I'm relieved . . . means I don't have to redo all my stuff again

[HGM-Chi]

...or a lvl 16 Bracers of Wind which give dodge +3 and can be stotted with dodge +1 using Cannith Crafting. Very good for AC character IMO (unless you have dodge +1 elsewhere) and easier to get.

The DDO Wiki has the level 16 bracers with +2 dodge, is that incorrect? Or does the dodge get upped via tiers somehow on the level 16 stuff too?

[krzyysiek098]

The DDO Wiki has the level 16 bracers with +2 dodge, is that incorrect? Or does the dodge get upped via tiers somehow on the level 16 stuff too?

Tier 2 of lvl 16 Bracers of Wind replaces dodge +2 with dodge +3.

BTW - adding 'craftable +4' to epic version would make that item somewhat overpowered. Stacking elec resist +10, a slot, Dodge bonus +3, dodge bonus +2 (Cannith crafting) [giving a total bonus of +5], blurry, air guard on a bracers? Anyone still using epic Scorched Bracers or epic Jidz-Tetka, lol?

[Mojoronomous]

Tier 2 of lvl 16 Bracers of Wind replaces dodge +2 with dodge +3.

BTW - adding 'craftable +4' to epic version would make that item somewhat overpowered. Stacking elec resist +10, a slot, Dodge bonus +3, dodge bonus +2 (Cannith crafting) [giving a total bonus of +5], blurry, air guard on a bracers? Anyone still using epic Scorched Bracers or epic Jidz-Tetka, lol?

Potential of +4 would enable Attack Bonus +4, ... "somewhat" OP?

[gloopygloop]

Tier 2 of lvl 16 Bracers of Wind replaces dodge +2 with dodge +3.

BTW - adding 'craftable +4' to epic version would make that item somewhat overpowered. Stacking elec resist +10, a slot, Dodge bonus +3, dodge bonus +2 (Cannith crafting) [giving a total bonus of +5], blurry, air guard on a bracers? Anyone still using epic Scorched Bracers or epic Jidz-Tetka, lol?

You can already put the Dodge +2 bonus on another slot if you are looking for AC. This would just provide slot consolidation, not extra AC on top of what you could get without the +4 crafting slot.

If you're one of the 2% of DDO characters that are going for AC, then what you described is a great item, but I'd still rather have the Jidz-Tetka in most situations. +10 stacking electrical resist and +5 AC is nice in addition to the blurry and air guard, but it's really not all that exciting for most characters. I'd rather have the 25% healing amp or an increased attack die step or +2 To Hit and +2 Damage (Cannith wilderness bracers) or Scorched Bracers to add a Colonscope set bonus.

[krzyysiek098]

Potential of +4 would enable Attack Bonus +4, ... "somewhat" OP?

That is not true. You cannot slot attack bonus shards into bracers.

You can already put the Dodge +2 bonus on another slot if you are looking for AC. This would just provide slot consolidation, not extra AC on top of what you could get without the +4 crafting slot.

If you're one of the 2% of DDO characters that are going for AC, then what you described is a great item, but I'd still rather have the Jidz-Tetka in most situations. +10 stacking electrical resist and +5 AC is nice in addition to the blurry and air guard, but it's really not all that exciting for most characters. I'd rather have the 25% healing amp or an increased attack die step or +2 To Hit and +2 Damage (Cannith wilderness bracers) or Scorched Bracers to add a Colonscope set bonus.

I was thinking of AC tanks only - especially DoS and SD. Sorry for misuderstanding. Both of those items are excellent for many builds, but for AC characters - those bracers would be the best choice IMO. If you are tanking as a monk (in places where AC matters), you would not be in fire stance, would you? You cannot rely on Cannith bracers too - proc rate is too low, tho they can give you some very nice short-duration buffs.
Besides - do you know how hard is to get even 1 more point of AC? AC is all or nothing and slot decisions are very difficult. Slot consolidation can give some flexibility elsewhere. Considering how rare dodge bonuses are, that item would be overpowered. That is my opinion - you can have yours :-)

[LeLoric]

Also consider cost to make. Lev 16 is 600x3 ingredients for first tier and 400x3 for each of the next two tiers. Lev 20 is 600x3 for first tier and 600x3 epic ingredients for tiers 2 and 3. And tier 3 costs an additional 5 epic dungeon tokens.

Not to mention the extreme difference in costs of slotting versus crafting. 60 epic dungeon tokens versus just a few mats that can be bought on the ah. Even at a very extreme rate of a token every 10 minutes you are talking 10 hours of in quest time versus what can be gotten from one simple schemes elite chest farm 15 min run.


I would make 2 chimes one with +2 attack and one with +33% electical absorption.

[voodoogroves]

I'm ok with some targeted boosts that more help melee builds.

I'd rather see some changes to slots to allow some cannith things added to them - esp. a colorless slot on a weapon. Yes, being able to stick "aligned" or "metalline" would be bad ... but I think life shield, bodyfeeder, some of the tactics shards, etc. wouldn't be bad options for some.




Restrict shards to certain slots
Trade cannith crafting shards + epic tokens for specific augment (not just epic tokens)
Augments are still color dependent


It could work, and would make it so you couldn't / didn't completely out of balance some things.

[DrNuegebauer]

The craftable +3 on the gear is far superor vs the colorless slot.. So for item sthat don't gave massive benenfits, the 16 versions are quite a bit better.

Seems a bit broken.

EG:

Blasting chime:
The 20 version only gains greater evocation focus... So for melees using this for hte purposes of the nice guard + weaken construct ability, thats a non issue.

Add +2 to hit bonus in the craftable +3 = lvl16 version wins.

or

Mournlode chain:
Mainly just gains AC..

So for anyone that actuall runs epic and knows AC does nothing:
Add lifeshield on the 16 version instead = far superior.

lots more examples im sure.

How to Fix:
Tier2 epic = Craftable +4, not near-useless colorless slot.

Not sure if you're suggesting this just for the challenge items - but it would actually be a change for the better overall with any epic item. Colourless slot option could be to add a "craftable +4" as one of the options (effectively making this an option for any epic item out there - simply add it to the options available near the epic altar)

[Farayon]

Does anyone else wonder if Turbine are secretly being funded by the government to run psychological tests on us by adding completely absurd, inexplicable changes to the game?

[Adken]

Does anyone else wonder if Turbine are secretly being funded by the government to run psychological tests on us by adding completely absurd, inexplicable changes to the game?

hahaha +1

[Yan_PL]

If epic weapons get Craftable +4, that's making it possible to add greater x bane to them, while still getting double damage dice and multiple goodies. Now, would that new greataxe slotted with GEOB be ahead of current DR breakers? I am worried that theese might become useful, thus making me want 'em enough to actually get them.

Craftable +4 on weapon capable of bypassing DR = overpowered? that's 14.5 damage per plain hit, right?
Take tier 3 mournlode slotted with silver in red, greater evil outsider bane vs bearded devil

------------------------
Possible Mournlode Devil beater:
+6 Enhancement Bonus, Silver, Righteous, Greater Undead Bane, Brilliance, Radiant Blast, Blinding Flash, Greater Evil outsider Bane
------------------------
Cannith crafted Devil beater
+5 holy burst silver x of greater evil outsider bane
------------------------
+9 vs +12 (due to righteous and bane)
2d6 holy burst vs Radiance = 1d6 loss on normal hit, 4d6 vs 2d10 burst on greataxe?
- vs Radiant Blast + Blinding Flash <== no idea on numbers
- vs double damage dice <== 1d12 gain. multiplied by crits. +60% works with glancing blow on pure barb.


or even, easier one, go with +7 on red slot and add holy of regular undead bane in +4 craftable slot, and go harass some undead?

holy of x bane is 2+4d6 damage vs chosen evil foe. =16 damage per hit
greater x bane = 4+3d6 = 14.5 damage per hit
holy burst = 2d6 +4d6 per crits (on greataxe, critting 2/19 hits on non-kensai, averaging to 1.473684... damage) = 8.47 damage per hit


------------------------
Ultimate undead beater?
------------------------
so mournlode with craftable +4 made into holy of [regular] undead bane, +7 in red slot, would be:
+7 +2 righteous +2 regular bane +4 greater bane = +15 to hit and to damage
1d6 light damage, 2d6 holy damage, 5d6 bane damage (7d6)
x d10 from light on crits, depending on weapon type
Radiant Blast (which is said to be proccing more often vs undead)
doubled base weapon dice.

Assuming FrBIII with IC:Slashing, and upcoming changes to GS base damage dice (1.5[W])

Mournlode Greataxe: +15, +7d6 per hit, +d12 base damage, 2d10 on greataxe crits (1.158 per hit), Radiant Blast
Compared to tripos GS GA: +5, 9d6 per hit, +d12/2 base damage, 8d6 on greataxe crits (2.947), 4d6blast+100disrupt nat20 damage (~6per hit)
7+2.947+6=15.947 (2d6 difference per hit, tripos crit + tripos nat 20)
15.947-1.158-10=4.789 (tripos "gain" - mournlode burst - mournlode +15 in comparison to GS +5)
d12 base = (17*d12 + 2*6*d12)/19 = d12*29/19 = 9.921 damage per hit, tripos GS gets half of it. (4.961). 4.789-4.961= (-0.172)
now, radiant blast. I have no idea how much damage it gives or how often it procs. But it's notable ability.
Glancing blows: no idea how disruption/banes d6's proc on them, but I'm pretty sure burst and blast and natural 20 instakill won't work with that, so I'll assume it's 7d6+radiant blast (+15 +d12) vs 9d6 (+5+d12/2)

------------------------
Conclusion
------------------------
Mournlode with +4 slotted with holy of regular bane, and with +7 in red, would outdps GS tripos vs Abbot.

[Shade]

I am worried that theese might become useful, thus making me want 'em enough to actually get them.

You worry too much. Embrace the future.

This is next level epics. It's a good thing.

[nivarch]

You worry too much. Embrace the future.

This is next level epics. It's a good thing.

/This

These should out-dps a triple pos GS.
These should out-dps a lit2 GS in some situations.
If they out-dps cannith crafted it's not such a major issue either.