Ghetto Necro DC?

[grodon9999]

Tell me if I'm missing anything or simply adding wrong. This is a brand new toon and my caster experience is kinda meh.


My Sustainable INT as soon as I cap should be 46 including Yugo and airship.

So that'll get me a DC of . . . 42?

Necro DC
Int 18
SF/GSF 2
item 2
lich 1
Base + Spell level 19

42 on a toon with barely any work invested . . . is that right?

[gerardIII]

Yes.

[grodon9999]

Thanks, it's looking disturbingly easy to make this easy-button.

[Cam_Neely]

Thanks, it's looking disturbingly easy to make this easy-button.

while it is easier then most people think to get 40ish DCs, Im not sure 46 int is ghetto. For sure possible with starting 18 int, but not easy button int to get.

INT
--------------------
20 base for Drow (19 human, 18 WF)
5 lvls
3 Wiz INT enh
4 Tome
7 item (Epic Staff of Inner Sight - two hander )or Epic Diabolist's Robe/Docent
1 exceptional INT+1 on ToD rings, DT armor or on a Shroud weapon
2 exceptional INT+2 on ToD rings or a Shroud weapon
1 Litany of the Dead
2 Wiz Capstone
2 Lich form
---------------------
47
2 Lesser INT Shrine (mgl 57 [46 gold seal], 60 minutes)
2 yugo pot (15 minutes)
2 store pot (10 minutes)
---------------------
53 sustainable
3 house D pot (1 minute)
---------------------
56
2 Completionist

18 base
5 lvls
3 Wiz INT enh
2 Tome
7 item (Epic Staff of Inner Sight - two hander )or Epic Diabolist's Robe/Docent
1 exceptional INT+1 on ToD rings, DT armor or on a Shroud weapon
2 exceptional INT+2 on ToD rings or a Shroud weapon
1 Litany of the Dead
2 Wiz Capstone
2 Lich form
2 Lesser INT Shrine (mgl 57 [46 gold seal], 60 minutes)
2 yugo pot (15 minutes)
---------------------
47 sustainable

[grodon9999]

while it is easier then most people think to get 40ish DCs, Im not sure 46 int is ghetto. For sure possible with starting 18 int, but not easy button int to get.

I erred in adding up, 44 without the ToD ring or any other exceptional INT

18 Base
5 Level ups
4 ENH (3 Wizard, 1 human)
3 Tome (pulled a BTA in EDQ a few months ago, others could DDO store it)
6 Item
2 Capstone
2 Lich
2 Yugo
2 Airship

44 Int

[Rawel_San]

+3 tome isn't particularly ghetto and neither is +2 item (or can they drop non raid/epic?).
The main point in my opinion is, 42 dc isn't quite the easy button everyone makes it out to be.
Go ahead and try wailing/fodding the first room in wiz king or even just the eSP panthers/wolves. With a
45 dc and running them through deleveling symbol 2-3 times and crushing despairing them I still get about
5 out of 6 or so. In e Wiz king I just ice storm since it's easier,safer and costs less sp.

edit: I guess you can cannith craft a +2 necro focus item so yeah sort of ghetto.

[grodon9999]

+3 tome isn't particularly ghetto and neither is +2 item (or can they drop non raid/epic?).
The main point in my opinion is, 42 dc isn't quite the easy button everyone makes it out to be.
Go ahead and try wailing/fodding the first room in wiz king or even just the eSP panthers/wolves. With a
45 dc and running them through deleveling symbol 2-3 times and crushing despairing them I still get about
5 out of 6 or so. In e Wiz king I just ice storm since it's easier,safer and costs less sp.

edit: I guess you can cannith craft a +2 necro focus item so yeah sort of ghetto.

Yeah . . . but put this LITTLE amount of work into a melee how effective will that be in epics? Will it even be able to hit anything?

[Calebro]

Tell me if I'm missing anything or simply adding wrong. This is a brand new toon and my caster experience is kinda meh.


My Sustainable INT as soon as I cap should be 46 including Yugo and airship.

So that'll get me a DC of . . . 42?

Necro DC
Int 18
SF/GSF 2
item 2
lich 1
Base + Spell level 19

42 on a toon with barely any work invested . . . is that right?

No.

Wit your adjusted Int, you're looking at:
Spell level = 9 (not 19, which is what you had)
Int 44 = 17 mod
SF/GSF 2
item 2
lich 1
----------------
31 with barely any work invested.

[Rawel_San]

Yeah . . . but put this LITTLE amount of work into a melee how effective will that be in epics? Will it even be able to hit anything?

Depends what melee you're building and what you're running. Also if that's all you did for your wizard you'd
be dead more often then not and out of sp the rest of the time.

That said I do agree it's easier to actually gear a wizard it is in my opinion a bunch harder to play them. At least
that is my conclusion from the fact that whenever I have guild healer+caster pug melees we finish anything
without breaking sweat, whereas if healer/caster (sometimes just one guild is enough) is pugged I see a "hitch"
rate of 1 in 3 or so. Just my experience though.

[Rawel_San]

No.

Wit your adjusted Int, you're looking at:
Spell level = 9 (not 19, which is what you had)
Int 44 = 17 mod
SF/GSF 2
item 2
lich 1
----------------
31 with barely any work invested.

You forgot the 10 base. Makes it 41, not 31.

[Calebro]

You forgot the 10 base. Makes it 41, not 31.

Derrrr.... yep
Need more coffee.

[Psiandron]

No.

Wit your adjusted Int, you're looking at:
Spell level = 9 (not 19, which is what you had)
Int 44 = 17 mod
SF/GSF 2
item 2
lich 1
----------------
31 with barely any work invested.

You forgot the base 10 and in the post you cited he used the wrong INT in his calc which you, rightly, corrected. So, 41 wbawi

Doh, Rawel beat me to it.

[Chai]

Yeah . . . but put this LITTLE amount of work into a melee how effective will that be in epics? Will it even be able to hit anything?

Alot of stuff is still immune to death spells one way or the other too. People cry too much about death spells until they actually play a wizard that is focused on it and see that while some quests are a breeze, most are not /autocomplete just because of a decent necro DC.

I could roll an ungeared half orc barbarian, and have it at the point where it doesnt really need to worry about hitting anything unless its a few specific bosses, and even then, it still gets the job done. Sure its better after the work is done, but Ive run a few now through the epics this game has to offer.

Its the hybrid classes that have the hardest time in this department, because paladins and rangers are much harder to rock a huge strength score on, and their spells arent powerful offensively. Add that to the fact that their HP totals are usually much lower, unless they are a tank PRE.

10 base
9 heightened casting
1 lich
2 greater necro focus item
17 int score of 44
2 necro focus and greater necro focus feats
1 exceptional int +2 (cove spyglass, shoulda made one when you had the chance, heh)
-----------------------------
42 - This nocks it out in most "easy epics" - completions in those quests arent hard to come by anyhow. Why are people still harping on it? 800 HP ungeared barbarians with healers arent having issues either.

Id like to hear from the casters who claim to be soloing eADQ1 and eWiz king. I dont think their necro DC is easy button-ing them through those quests alone. They sure as heck aint doing it on a ghetto caster who hasnt farmed / built eardweller, torc, conc/opp, spell storing, or eaven a coupla TRs to free up those spell pen feats for another higher DC.

Yes, there is a power gap between high end casters and high end melee. This is overstated to the point of hilarity on these boards however, as this isnt really a huge issue in the low, medium, and just reached cap range. I see the largest power gap with fully geared toons, where the casters can crush just about anything, but the melee are limited, but not for the reasons the forumites say they are. Damage mitigation is the biggest issue in DDO, not DCs of one school of magic.

[tinyelvis]

It is pathetically easy to make and play a marginally useful wizard. I think this is a great thing. If you want to play a spell caster and your a newb or have little high end gear then go wizard. You can be useful end game.

However, they are still only marginally useful. First off, they specialize in killing easy trash. This is not really a super high demand need end game. The newb wiz falls apart when spell resistance is present or end boss fights. Often these are the most important fights. Take your newb wiz into OOB or DA and see, just to name a few.

A newb barbarian would actually perform better in these later more important cases. For this reason I do not believe the wizard is OP, or at least less so than many melee classes. Get over the fact that they out perform you in kill count.

[Aurora1979]

If your talking ghetto...

-1 for the tome, i think +3 is not ghetto, +2 everyone gets a fairly easy shot at.

-2 yogo pots. lots of people dont have them/ wont get them till very late on.

-2 ship buffs. not everyone has access to a ship

[Ironforge_Clan]

If your talking ghetto...

-1 for the tome, i think +3 is not ghetto, +2 everyone gets a fairly easy shot at.

-2 yogo pots. lots of people dont have them/ wont get them till very late on.

-2 ship buffs. not everyone has access to a ship

Disagree on the ship buff comment. Even a guildless pugger like myself can get a ship invite whenever I need one. Figure -3 not -5.

[Aurora1979]

Disagree on the ship buff comment. Even a guildless pugger like myself can get a ship invite whenever I need one. Figure -3 not -5.

Im a guildless pugger too but i stand by what i said.

If Im in a raid I can grab someone elses buffs, Or I can send a tell to a friend and get some..... But me myself, I dont have access to them, and not everyone does.

Its not impossible to get, of course, but he is the one who said ghetto dc.... I take that to mean something very easy to get that everyone has access to. Ship buffs dont fall into that imo.... but then I know there are lots of people that swear by their ship buffs and never leave home without them. There are also loads of players with no access to a ship at all unless they are in a group and get an invite from a random.

All of that makes me feel like ship buffs shouldnt be included.

[voodoogroves]

Yes and no Junk ... some of this is "big guild" or "have other toons" benefit. Aurora called it ...

For a great many people, a +2 INT shrine and +2 from a Yugo pot isn't a guarantee. Neither are +3 tomes. So ... someone savvy with gear access and (say) a bank filled with seals, shards, etc. or ability to find a solid group (likely in guild, not channel) to grind out an epic staff of inner sight, yugo favor, etc. ... that amount is easier.

Not as likely for the small guild or less-resourced player, and so not ghetto.

[grodon9999]

Yes and no Junk ... some of this is "big guild" or "have other toons" benefit. Aurora called it ...

For a great many people, a +2 INT shrine and +2 from a Yugo pot isn't a guarantee. Neither are +3 tomes. So ... someone savvy with gear access and (say) a bank filled with seals, shards, etc. or ability to find a solid group (likely in guild, not channel) to grind out an epic staff of inner sight, yugo favor, etc. ... that amount is easier.

Not as likely for the small guild or less-resourced player, and so not ghetto.

Honestly, I was more concerned about me

Just wanted to know what I'd be able to hit before the serious grind for the rare stuff happens and to make sure I was adding my modifiers correctly.

[Rawel_San]

Disagree on the ship buff comment. Even a guildless pugger like myself can get a ship invite whenever I need one. Figure -3 not -5.

You don't count as a guildless pugger and you know it. Guildless pugger means you don't have 4 raiding
channels and tons of friends in end game raiding guilds.