Questions about Earthgrab

[The10man]

1. Why the change?
2. No seriously WHY?
3. Why does Raid loot, FoM, etc., etc., etc. not help with resisting it?
4. Why can creatures in the pit in foundation of discord hit targets in the other room that are hiding behind walls/around corners/etc.?
5. Why can a gong block my spells but not the earthgrab?
6. Why?

I know fanbois, start flaming me (and Neg repping me if i hadn't disabled it due to rampant abuse and a seriously flawed system but I digress...) but I am serious. What was the thinking behind making this SPELL unstoppable? It was WAI for several years we thought. How about an item or two or spell or something to counter it? Damage and incapacitation even through walls and obstacles from LONG distances seems a LOT overpowered.

[Hellllboy]

While I think the game has taken a 180 degree turn on Earthgrab vs. what it used to be-it used to be kinda a joke for most players (especially WF).

I think it could be a little less potent-as standing in an Earthgrab getting chewed up is not very fun anymore.

[wax_on_wax_off]

It's obvious; reduce the advantage that WF has so more players will be horc/helf.

[vampiregoat69]

get rid of a few more of our immunities and we will be HUMAN oh WAIT we have those.

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

Don't worry, they will have potions of anti-earthgrab available in the DDO store any update now.

[Jaid314]

get a decent reflex save. the DC is generally not very high.

[Caliban]

get a decent reflex save. the DC is generally not very high.

On normal maybe. I generally run quests on Elite, with my monk or my wiz with Insightful reflexes, and I still get grabbed.

It's worse in those quests where you encounter 3-5 earth elementals at once - they will chain grab you, and you are going to fail one of those saves. It's just irritating.

[Sarisa]

get a decent reflex save. the DC is generally not very high.

The DC for epic Earth Elementals is at least in the mid 40's, based on the saves I've seen on my Cleric in 'A Small Problem'. Good luck making that save reliably on a Sorc, Cleric, or Fighter.

[The10man]

Don't worry, they will have potions of anti-earthgrab available in the DDO store any update now.

---Exactly!----

Jaid314 "get a decent reflex save. the DC is generally not very high."

----Shh begone troll.----

Caliban Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaid314
get a decent reflex save. the DC is generally not very high.

On normal maybe. I generally run quests on Elite, with my monk or my wiz with Insightful reflexes, and I still get grabbed.

It's worse in those quests where you encounter 3-5 earth elementals at once - they will chain grab you, and you are going to fail one of those saves. It's just irritating.

---This is exactly what triggered my rant. Foundation of discord end fight we were getting chain grabbed and there was no safe spot to heal up or way to resist it. We would get free enough to kill one and get grabbed immediately. We couldn't even tell which one was grabbing us. It is annoying. Not undefeatable, just annoying. And if their spell (or spell like effect) can go around corners and thru walls why can't our heals or damage spells?---

[PNellesen]

I know fanbois, start flaming me (and Neg repping me if i hadn't disabled it due to rampant abuse and a seriously flawed system but I digress...) but I am serious. What was the thinking behind making this SPELL unstoppable? It was WAI for several years we thought. How about an item or two or spell or something to counter it? Damage and incapacitation even through walls and obstacles from LONG distances seems a LOT overpowered.

I'd give you +1 if I could - I'd like to know this as well. At the very least, if they're going to remove the ability to block an OBVIOUS magical "grappling" attempt then they should have made it "in-sight" only.

[Flavilandile]

What was the thinking behind making this SPELL unstoppable? It was WAI for several years we thought.

First It's not a spell it's an ability. If it was a spell it could be dispelled. Earthgrab cannot be dispelled ergo it is not a spell.

Second it never was WAI... it has been fixed ( to our despair ) and right now what is not working as it should is FoM, which should protect from Earthgrab.

Now instead of ranting over it, as it's obvious they won't back away from the change, you're energy would be best spent on being constructive by being concentrated on fixing FoM so that it protect from Earthgrab.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm

Hint : Earthgrab is a grapple attack.

[voodoogroves]

First It's not a spell it's an ability. If it was a spell it could be dispelled. Earthgrab cannot be dispelled ergo it is not a spell.

Second it never was WAI... it has been fixed ( to our despair ) and right now what is not working as it should is FoM, which should protect from Earthgrab.

Now instead of ranting over it, as it's obvious they won't back away from the change, you're energy would be best spent on being constructive by being concentrated on fixing FoM so that it protect from Earthgrab.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm

Hint : Earthgrab is a grapple attack.

Agreed. We had one batch of code handling different but similar things with an unintended consequence - WF were immune. In changnig that one batch of code yet still not coding for the multiple ways things can be grabbed/etc. the problem was simply moved to another event, with a difference unintended consequence.

Not requiring LOS or being able to grab targets in mid-air, notwithstanding ...

[The10man]

First It's not a spell it's an ability. If it was a spell it could be dispelled. Earthgrab cannot be dispelled ergo it is not a spell.

Second it never was WAI... it has been fixed ( to our despair ) and right now what is not working as it should is FoM, which should protect from Earthgrab.

Now instead of ranting over it, as it's obvious they won't back away from the change, you're energy would be best spent on being constructive by being concentrated on fixing FoM so that it protect from Earthgrab.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm

Hint : Earthgrab is a grapple attack.

Hey whatever reason works, but it needs fixed. FoM spell and Kundarak Raid item on a character who is in other room in sneak mode around corner behind pillar in sneak without having aggro; that PC should NOT be getting grabbed PERIOD! For a myriad of reasons.

It won't be though for a long time if ever because it benefits the player base to fix it so that is low priority. What sells more store items and points is what matters.

[Falco_Easts]

Honestly, I have no problem with them removing FoM protection.

I wish they could/would code different features for different difficulties however.

Normal - FoM protects from Earthgrab
Hard - FoM gives 40% protection
Elite - FoM gives 10% protection
Casual - Gives you 500pp resulting from the lawsuit after Elemental invades your personal space.

Normal - No troll regen, additional damage from fire/acid
Hard - No troll regen
Elite - Troll regen. Need fire/acid to kill all trolls (like the Scrags of old).

Etc...

[donfilibuster]

A source of frowns is that we don't know if FoM is WAI or not, it might indeed be that it was coded to not work on earthgrab but can very well be an omission or bug.
Double frown if they just fix one bug but left the second.

The part where FoM isn't supposed to prevent grab because it is not a spell is debatable, because what FoM is supposed to do is to "let you move" whenever your movement is impeded, not limited to spells.

Granted, there's no grapple or escape skill in DDO but refer to the actual physical attacks not the effect causing it.
Furthermore, PnP FoM don't dispel anything, if you were paralyzed and FoM expired the effect would resume.
(the spell that actually dispelled effects was freedom)


And lastly, the most frowns i see in the posts come from the buggy grab of eles, through the walls, seemingly quickened, and chained if there's multiple eles.
So there's indeed a case of fixing one bug to fall in another. Like with air eles this may deserve some further tuning, easybutton or not.

edit: and no, grabs still occur if you are standing next to the ele, which some say prevent it.

[Bogenbroom]

Couple of points...

1) As I understand it, Earth Elementals don't have eyes. Line of sight is not relevant to them. They detect things by vibration, so as long as you are attached to the ground, you can be earth grabbed. If anything, move silently should help defend against it. But not being in another room. That does suggest, though, that the "vision" range of an Earth Ele should be pretty damned short.

2) Earth eles only seem to grab if you are out of melee range. Don't be out of melee range. That works in the majority of places you find them.

3) FoM was vastly overpowered. I am not saying their shouldn't be a way to defend against grab, but FoM covered too many things. My initial thought was to divide up FoM into two spells, much like was done with Resist and Protection, so that one version protected from Grabble and other physical impediments and anotehr protected from hold and other magical impediments.

[donfilibuster]

2) Earth eles only seem to grab if you are out of melee range. Don't be out of melee range. That works in the majority of places you find them.

This seems to be once you stay in melee range, say, if it begins to hit you then it'd keep hitting you but if it begins to grab it'd keep grabbing.

And is kind of tricky because they can grab as soon as they raise when you walk in.
Some eles take long to wake, others wake at a distance. Quests like TTF have some that wake on trigger.

Naturally there's extra danger in rooms with multiple eles.
Mix these conditions and you have higher chance of being grab in tandem, one after another without break.