Is beating post U12 and Achiement?

[grodon9999]

Wanted to know if it's considered hard or not.

I thought Shroud was much worse.

[Diyon]

Wanted to know if it's considered hard or not.

I thought Shroud was much worse.

Uhhhh beating what exactly?

[katz]

i accidentally the whole thing?

[grodon9999]

Bah, Elite Abbot. Wasn't paying attention while typing.

[xTethx]

Bah, Elite Abbot. Wasn't paying attention while typing.

A guildie and I are attempting both Shroud and Abbot elite witout pots, and Im fairly certain the abbot will be much harder. Let ya know in a few days when we both get back on from t-day break.

[grodon9999]

A guildie and I are attempting both Shroud and Abbot elite witout pots, and Im fairly certain the abbot will be much harder. Let ya know in a few days when we both get back on from t-day break.

We just beat Abbot tonight, and I think Shroud was harder. We did stack the deck with as many ideal melee DPS as possible though.

Good luck with the two-manning.

[LeLoric]

We just beat Abbot tonight, and I think Shroud was harder. We did stack the deck with as many ideal melee DPS as possible though.

Good luck with the two-manning.

Abbot is by far harder elite right now.

Shroud really isn't that hard if people are watching the blades and aware of them.

[grodon9999]

Abbot is by far harder elite right now.

Shroud really isn't that hard if people are watching the blades and aware of them.

I didn't find Elite Abbot to be that bad, you just can't bring 10 casters anymore.

[Ayseifn]

Did it last week with an all caster+spell singer+monk group and I'm pretty sure no pots were drunk, just need to be good at keeping dots up and not dying to infernos. I haven't done an abbot with lots of melees in forever so no idea how much easier/harder it'd be though.

[morticianjohn]

Abbot is by far harder elite right now.

Shroud really isn't that hard if people are watching the blades and aware of them.

I've had a couple elite shrouds go bad recently. It seems no matter who I bring if the blades don't kill them then they die to DBF (though in retrospect I should have left the sub 300 casters and probably the ~400 rangers at home). I've had really good players just randomly die even from 400-450 HP to -10 (reasonably geared palemasters). I haven't tried Abbot post U12 but from what I'm hearing and experiencing elite shroud is less than 50% even with pots (though I do expect this to continue to improve as more people become used to the random blade activity). At least in Abbot you can pot your way through if necessary. for this reason I think elite shroud is a harder completion.

[LeLoric]

I've had a couple elite shrouds go bad recently. It seems no matter who I bring if the blades don't kill them then they die to DBF (though in retrospect I should have left the sub 300 casters and probably the ~400 rangers at home). I've had really good players just randomly die even from 400-450 HP to -10 (reasonably geared palemasters). I haven't tried Abbot post U12 but from what I'm hearing and experiencing elite shroud is less than 50% even with pots (though I do expect this to continue to improve as more people become used to the random blade activity). At least in Abbot you can pot your way through if necessary. for this reason I think elite shroud is a harder completion.

Those same sub 300-400 hitpoint players are going to be dying in abbot much more. Theres a lot more dbfs, disintegrates, horrid wiltings, otilukes, many more that will one shot those players in abbot versus what harry throws. Those same people woulda died to those spells pre u12 also.

Fact is shroud is hard because of blades which are very predictable and those that are having troubles are generally newer to the game and not used to having to worry about where the blades are etc. Once people learn the blade patterns better and become accostumed to avoiding them it becomes pretty much what the raid was pre U12.

Abbot is hard because there is a an awful lot of aoe dmg being lobbied about in very unpredictable manners and add to that you are often disjuncted and have to worry about things like encasement and inferno.

[LeLoric]

I didn't find Elite Abbot to be that bad, you just can't bring 10 casters anymore.

And shroud elite isnt that bad you just cant stand in one spot and let the blades run through you like ya did before.

[sirgog]

Those same sub 300-400 hitpoint players are going to be dying in abbot much more. Theres a lot more dbfs, disintegrates, horrid wiltings, otilukes, many more that will one shot those players in abbot versus what harry throws. Those same people woulda died to those spells pre u12 also.

Fact is shroud is hard because of blades which are very predictable and those that are having troubles are generally newer to the game and not used to having to worry about where the blades are etc. Once people learn the blade patterns better and become accostumed to avoiding them it becomes pretty much what the raid was pre U12.

Abbot is hard because there is a an awful lot of aoe dmg being lobbied about in very unpredictable manners and add to that you are often disjuncted and have to worry about things like encasement and inferno.

The blades that kill people are the seeker ones. With skill they can be dodged too, but that level of situational awareness hasn't really been required in DDO, so Shroud Elite will continue to be tough until players develop that skill.

[Shade]

There's no rules on whats an achievement. Post what you feel is worthy.

I've failed a cpl post u12 abbot elites, then won one.. It was devastatingly difficult, but for the wrong reasons: Too much hp.

Didn't post it as no one in the run commented on it lining up for a ss and i know its not nearly khybers first post u12 as a friend of mine did a cpl on patchday while i was busy with challenges.

If none have been posted for your server, id say yea post it. It is stupidly hard now.

They need to cut down the hp massively, add back the nasty on-death mummies and thatd be a nice elite. Current version is just too repetitive, like u11 dragon was.

Going from 50kpp to ~300k in a cpl patchs is just ludicrous. He needed an upgrade on elite, not SIX TIMES THE HP.. geez.

mm othr raids:
To rank the changes:

Most increased in diff to least (elite/epic - counting u11 changes):
1. Shroud
2. Abbot
3. Reaver (fixed eles.. moar hp, maxize and emp now, lots harder)
4. ToD (mainly more hp, more dmg is tough but nothing too crazy)
5. VoD (Ton more hp, hits quite a bit harder)
6. Hound (hound was maybe changed b4, dunno, just ran it again recently.. Mindflayers have crazy high hp now, so getting another stone is near impossible, so its pretty mcuh 4 stones and win, or else..)
7. Dragon (new trick got us first try, other runs have been fine and lower hp, more sp is good)
8. DQ2 (Actaully easier now for most of my characters, maybe harder for heavy caster grps or crappy reflex save any class.. a good thing)
9. LoB? .. I think they might of stealth buffed him somehow.. I dunno, seems a tiny bit harder now, tho nothing tangible.. Maybe just the good players are bored of running it.

[grodon9999]

There's no rules on whats an achievement. Post what you feel is worthy.

I've failed a cpl post u12 abbot elites, then won one.. It was devastatingly difficult, but for the wrong reasons: Too much hp.

Didn't post it as no one in the run commented on it lining up for a ss and i know its not nearly khybers first post u12 as a friend of mine did a cpl on patchday while i was busy with challenges.

If none have been posted for your server, id say yea post it. It is stupidly hard now.

They need to cut down the hp massively, add back the nasty on-death mummies and thatd be a nice elite. Current version is just too repetitive, like u11 dragon was.

Going from 50kpp to ~300k in a cpl patchs is just ludicrous. He needed an upgrade on elite, not SIX TIMES THE HP.. geez.

.

The HP is silly, the evasion is even sillier. It's the kind of thing that if a DM tried to pull on his players he'd get a can of Mountian Dew chucked at his head.

We stacked the deck with as many monks and monk-splashes with Epic Mabar wraps, Red-scale, and bursting ToD rings as we could find. That type of melee is ideal for fighting a big 100% fort lich. Brought a bard for the most melee DPS we could get, and just went medieval on him. The divines kept our saves buffed up in the stratasphere as did that pally's aura so most of the incoming damage was mitigated. All of us were 100+ completion vets who knew exactly what to do what inferno hit and how to handle encasement, etc . . . we had a few deaths on a bugged encasement where no matter how many rocks were thrown it would go away but other than that I'd say it was smooth.

All that work for crappy loot to . . . hard seems to be dropping moire upgrade seals and is MUCH easier.

I still think Shroud is harder

WHat bugs me about this is most of this loot is caster loot, yet is seems to go better when you pack the raid with a bunch of melees.

[maddmatt70]

This is hard to say actually. Abbot elite can be pretty easy, but at other times can be hard - this depends a little bit on the players. Having 3 or so real ringers makes the thing pretty smooth. Ran an elite abbot the other day with 5 healers 1-2 caster 5-6 melee types and it was smooth. Hints: mass prot in there is great on the melee and BDB and DP are pretty effective as well so just divy up the duties for the healing types. Some caster/healers heal and others DOT for e.g.. Shroud elite has a learning curve so my guess is it will be easier then Abbot elite once you overcome that learning curve.

[LeLoric]

The blades that kill people are the seeker ones. With skill they can be dodged too, but that level of situational awareness hasn't really been required in DDO, so Shroud Elite will continue to be tough until players develop that skill.

You pretty much said what I said so not sure why you quote me and act like I was wrong. Those blades are predictable (which is what I said) once you know how they work. They spawn on barbazu death and generally follow last person who had it's aggro. The only really hard blades are the ones in part 5 and good groups can generally not have to deal with those.

It's no more situational awareness then in epic dragon knowing that you get out of the way when she snorts fire. Or epic abaishai devastator knowing the color and what each does.
This kind of awareness has already been in the game.

[Sarisa]

The blades that kill people are the seeker ones. With skill they can be dodged too, but that level of situational awareness hasn't really been required in DDO, so Shroud Elite will continue to be tough until players develop that skill.

Skill, plus not having any sort of latency. DDO's network structure, where ONE person's flaky connection can cause the entire raid to hitch/freeze/damage queue/etc is what destroys any sort of skillful avoidance.

Having the damage radius not match the animation doesn't help matters either.

[voodoogroves]

The HP is silly, the evasion is even sillier. It's the kind of thing that if a DM tried to pull on his players he'd get a can of Mountian Dew chucked at his head.

In my gaming group, this was first witnessed as a hackysack, and a concussion.


Afterwards, the "parking lot" rule was created. In short, any action by any player or DM that was of such a level of annoying d-baggery as to prompt not just one but the general populace to follow said individual out to the parking lot and discuss the finer points is recommended as a course of action not to take ... else the other individuals had free reign to indeed follow said person to the parking lot.