Yet another 16/2/2 Bard build

[azrael4h]

My guild is on the verge of a level 7 cross dimensional rip of epic proportions. Of incredible, even dangerous necromantic potential.

We're going to do a group TR.

Largely we have settled on builds. The paladin of the group will of course play a Paladin, as what else is there to play but Paladins? This time, he's going Warforged for the sake of saying he did something different once.

Another, more used to melee than anything else, will be going full bore Wizard, I put together a build capable of going between PM and Necro/Enchant AM, with at least 40 DC in both either way. Yet another will be an Evoker, more to ensure that the Paladin of the group does not TR his other cleric-that-he-plays-as-a-paladin into yet another cleric-that-he-plays-as-a-paladin. The other is going AA for a change of pace, as Wizard, Wizard, Sorcerer, Wizard has gotten old.

That leaves me and one other... and no one claiming trap duty. So hence, I slapped together this build. Full ranks in DD, Search, Spot, UMD, and perform, and nearly so in Concentration.

It largely depends on whether or not the last member is willing to do rogue, exploiter, or some other trap-capable build. If so, I'm planning on Fighter. If she wants to go fighter, then this is an option.

Didn't put any gear in. I have my GS HP item, and otherwise standard hp gear, so add 155hp. +10 for Argo favor, for a unbuffed total of 475hp. 515 with rage/ship. I'd have to craft an sp item though, wasn't originally planning a blue bar character. Add 2 to saves due to a +6 CHA item (pally dilly), +10 reflex from Parasitic Breastplate. Can get into low 30's for reflex, low 20's for will, and 24 for Fort when self buffed with current stuff laying around. More depending on pally aura. IIRC UMD sits at 37 without GS, 38 with ship buff.

Primarily, this is for dps and buffing, with the capability to emergency heal at need from sp. My role will be haste/rage in the frontlines, and beating up ****. When traps are in the way, I deal with them. Extended Haste, Rage, and Displacement will probably about handle my sp for the most part, I don't think I'll have enough to do much else. Most healing can be done by scrolls if necessary.

This build has superior healing and buffing to the current life as an Exploiter, weaker spot though due to loss of Wild Instincts. Actually it will probably have decently comparable dps, while lower STR she can self haste and rage to better effect, and bard songs help offset the rest. Equally survivable, missing only resists, which I have about a dozen level 11 wands of, and deathward, which I carry clickies.

I'll probably set up a pure rogue build later. It's 2:30am.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Captain Chaos 
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 310
Spell Points: 500 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 15
Will: 12

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 23                   24
Dexterity             8                 10                   10
Constitution         15                 17                   18
Intelligence         16                 18                   18
Wisdom                8                 10                   10
Charisma             14                 16                   16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     4
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         4                    25
Diplomacy             6                     7
Disable Device        7                    27
Haggle                6                     7
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            2                     7
Jump                  7                    11
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock             3                     7
Perform               n/a                  26
Repair                3                     4
Search                7                    28
Spot                  3                    24
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                3                     4
Use Magic Device      6                    26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Rage


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (1): Grease


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder
Spell (2): Invisibility
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Spell (3): Good Hope


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (4): Dimension Door


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (5): Greater Heroism


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Spell (5): Shadow Walk


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistible Dance
Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante III
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III

[karl_k0ch]

It looks like a nice build, and it's great that the parasitic breastplate can compensate for the lack of dex. I never missed wild instincts, but then, I dumped spot on both of my bards.

Will your stunning blow DC be good enough to land it consistently? I had some problems with it when I leveled my 28pt THF pally.
I see the benefit of improved sunder, and tactic feats in general on a support character, but the real question is: Will you be able to land them on a regular basis?

Regarding the Evasion, but Dex dumped thing. Will you always wear the parasitic breast plate? No other perspective for the endgame? And before level 14, is there something to help with that Reflex save? An option which seems to fit to your starting stats is to take the insightful reflexes feat, using your Int mod, rather than your Dex mod for your Reflex save, allowing more flexibility in the armor department.

I am pretty much underwhelmed by the healing abilities of my 18/2 bard, but then, I might not have enough experience playing a real healer. A Concordat Opposition Item and/or a Torc will be of great help for such kind of playing style.

[Infant]

It looks like a nice build, and it's great that the parasitic breastplate can compensate for the lack of dex. I never missed wild instincts, but then, I dumped spot on both of my bards.

Will your stunning blow DC be good enough to land it consistently? I had some problems with it when I leveled my 28pt THF pally.
I see the benefit of improved sunder, and tactic feats in general on a support character, but the real question is: Will you be able to land them on a regular basis?

Regarding the Evasion, but Dex dumped thing. Will you always wear the parasitic breast plate? No other perspective for the endgame? And before level 14, is there something to help with that Reflex save? An option which seems to fit to your starting stats is to take the insightful reflexes feat, using your Int mod, rather than your Dex mod for your Reflex save, allowing more flexibility in the armor department.

I am pretty much underwhelmed by the healing abilities of my 18/2 bard, but then, I might not have enough experience playing a real healer. A Concordat Opposition Item and/or a Torc will be of great help for such kind of playing style.

Agree, except for the Saves thing. I find it difficult to land Trip on my Horc 16/2/2 in elite quests, so there might be better feat choices than Sunder and Stunning Blow.

Also, my Bard has 750 Sp with 12 base Cha, +2 Tome, +6 Item, +2 Ship and Wizardry VII. Add 150 from greensteel, then you are at 900, still not a raid healer imho . For quests I use scrolls. Maximize and Quicken are still viable choices probably.

Reflex Saves on a Pally dilly, however, should be decent: 10 from Bard, 3 from Rogue, 3 from Dex (8+2tome+6item), 4 from GH, 2 Good Luck, 1 Haste, 5 Resistance item, 5 Pally dilly (would go all the way here). Thats 33 Reflex save without ship or parasitic breastplate. Not breathtaking, but not bad either.

Infant

[karl_k0ch]

I didn't do the calcs with the dilly, and 33 sounds reasonable indeed, once you have a resistance item.

I think that improved sunder can also be helpful if you don't land it on your first try. The stacking -3 Fort will make subsequent tries more successful, and also other things work better, in particular Stunning blow by (another) melee, death spells by a wizard (if you have one).

[Aerendil]

Primarily, this is for dps and buffing, with the capability to emergency heal at need from sp. My role will be haste/rage in the frontlines, and beating up ****. When traps are in the way, I deal with them. Extended Haste, Rage, and Displacement will probably about handle my sp for the most part, I don't think I'll have enough to do much else. Most healing can be done by scrolls if necessary.

This build has superior healing and buffing to the current life as an Exploiter, weaker spot though due to loss of Wild Instincts. Actually it will probably have decently comparable dps, while lower STR she can self haste and rage to better effect, and bard songs help offset the rest. Equally survivable, missing only resists, which I have about a dozen level 11 wands of, and deathward, which I carry clickies.

I'll probably set up a pure rogue build later. It's 2:30am.

You have the differences between a Bard and a Ranger-exploiter down pretty well. The only thing I'd add to that is that the Bard is lacking "burst" dps, whereas the Ranger (even the Tempests) can Manyshot the **** out of something when needed. But as far as melee dps goes, they're pretty close. The Ranger clearly pulls ahead with Bard buffs in a group setting, but in terms of each solo dps, they can be very close indeed.

The pure Rogue could be a good option as well, as you may need a bit more melee dps from time to time - although they're just as squishy as a Bard in many situations due to the low base hps.

Another option for you to consider (and don't get me wrong, I love playing Bards - so if you have heart set on one, go for it) would be an Artificer.
As your main tank is a WF, you can easily heal him (or her), and still bring great buffs to the table, as well as dps (blade barrier, runearm, flame turret, x-bow). But that, of course, requires a lot of favour and/or DDO store points, which isn't a possibility for everyone at the moment. But it's certainly something different.

[azrael4h]

1 - Stunning Blow was a "I have more feats that I originally thought I would, whats useful? Imp Sunder is because it's useful. I won't have the greatest DC on either, but with the raid changes, I'll probably keep Imp Sunder regardless, but it's not critical. SB is open for swap. It was 2am when I did this, so when I wrote out my feat list I probably miscounted. Another toughness, heck Mental Toughness whatever is an alternate. Lightning Reflexes may also be viable, though I don't know if it has any prereqs. Never had anyone who could fit it.

2 - I have an artificer actually, but I've never managed to get a Bard going. Largely because I've always been focused on other characters, and there's only so many hours after work. I've suggested to the wizard player to carry repairs/recon for emergencies, but hopefully the pally will have some healing amp other than HF1 and past life pally.

3 - I will miss Manyshot. Very, very much. I had considered working it into the Fighter build I was planning even, before my group realized our usual trapper has chosen evoker fvs. I actually like playing Ranger, but there's a bit of hate towards them, and I've seen some problems when pugging raids.

4 - Quicken and Maximize are for "Oh ****" moments when we need burst healing yesterday, not later, and for whatever reason the FvS is down or unable to heal.

5 - As far as armor, DT robes on down the line are an option, assuming I ever pull something other than garbage out of the chests. 4 characters have ran in RR and not one has pulled anything of worth. There's also Crimson Chain at 12 I think for occasional free haste and IIRC +5 Reflex. I just happen to have the parasitic already crafted with +10 reflex, and haven't really gotten anything better. I obviously miscalculated on my reflex save from someone else's post.

6 - I've seen bards solo-heal Shroud and VoD, and heal the chew toy in HoX, before. I doubt this build can do that, maybe a 18/2 spellsinger or something could. Well maybe scroll heal the tank in VoD/HoX, if they're built decent. I'm not experienced enough with Bards, as I've only managed level 7 before, and my current one is level 5. Both could heal to an extent at that level, but getting further in I couldn't tell you.

7 - I have never seen a Torc drop ever. After capping a Cleric, who TRed and capped as a Sorcerer, and capping a FvS, and running DQ every time I could catch it, I've never seen a Torc drop. Con Opp is my option there, gotta run 20 Shrouds first and get the mats. And find a slot. I have a WizVI ring that I found, lootgen, so that'll at least handle the long-term buffing like blur and GH.

8 - I need spot because while I ran my exploiter up to do traps, I often ran with a real rogue in the party and didn't always wear a spot item. So I don't know where 90% of the traps or boxes are.

Thanks for the comments. I'm starting to like this build anyway, might modify it if the other guildy wants to run Rogue, and dump traps skill and stay Bard WC. That's the main thing as to what I run as on this character's next life.

[karl_k0ch]

4 - I think that this purpose will work very well.
8 - The ddowiki can provide you with info on the locations of traps, and your fellow ex-rogue player might be able to tell you where the box is. That's of course for the occasions where your spot value doesn't cut it.

[azrael4h]

Well I won't be responsible for traps, my other guildy has called pure Rogue, but I think I'm sticking with Bard. I think I'd like to run one past level 7 for a change.

To that end, I've dumped INT entirely, Putting STR and CON at 17 each (human adaptability in both will even it out), focusing on maxing UMD, Perform, and Concentration only. I swapped Stunning Blow for Lightning Reflexes to boost my evasion further, though that's still an open feat. CHA is pumped up a hair as well, but not significantly. Otherwise it's identical to the prior build.

[code]Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Captain Chaos 
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 330
Spell Points: 500 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 16
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             17                 24                   26
Dexterity             8                  8                    8
Constitution         17                 19                   20
Intelligence          8                  8                    8
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             15                 17                   17

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     8
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         5                    28
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                6                     7
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            2                     7
Jump                  7                    31
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock             3                     3
Perform               n/a                  26
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     8
Tumble                3                     3
Use Magic Device      6                    26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Blur


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (2): Rage
Spell (1): Grease


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (2): Invisibility
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Spell (4): Dimension Door


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (4): Break Enchantment


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
Spell (5): Shadow Walk


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistible Dance
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante III
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III

I picked out Mind Fog, which says in the builder that it gives a -10 Will Save. Does this work? I've never seen anyone cast it, and if it works then I can work out a pattern with the Wizard whose going enchantment-focused, so if that works, then that could be huge.

[HarveyMilk]

Mind fog has a save, so it's just not as amazing as it first seems. It's still helpful. But the wiz should have a better dc than you would, and would prob be better served casting the mind fog him/herself.

[azrael4h]

KK, the builder is light on info like that for the spells, and I never paid attention to it on my Sorc since I have dismal enchant saves there anyway. There's not enough Bard spells to fill out a melee build's list really.

[TheFantasticBard]

the Mindfogs worth it if your DCs are high enough. a -10 to will is amasing(i cannotspell to save my life). only problem is can u get your DCs to the 40s where mindfog becomes a kritical part of cc abilitys(if that is why your takeing it) If you are not goin for the cc, its useless because most mobs will save against it.