How much AC at each level to be near-unhittable?

[Goodheals]

As the title asks, I was wondering if anyone had some insight into what ballpark figures you need in AC to be unhittable aside from grazing hits and Natural 20's.

What I would love to see is a list that shows each level, on normal, hard, and elite, that a ballpark AC of a certain value is usually enough.

If no one has a decent list like that, just some generic numbers for various level ranges would be great for the 3 difficulties =)

I would just like a guide to know for a couple of my characters apx. when I should expect to give up on AC (I found 12 to be about right on my cleric), and also to see if my current plan for a Dwarf Stalwart Defender Fighter would be possible to have a near-unhittable AC all the way until endgame (where I hear its almost impossible to get enough AC).

Thanks!

[wax_on_wax_off]

This figure also changes by adventure pack and in general what foes you're fighting. Red and orange named mobs obviously have higher ABs. More recent adventure packs tend to need high AC to be effective.

Mechanically, you need to remember that there will be a range where AC is useful of 19 numbers.

Some observations of quests (all on elite):
Level 3-4: between 35-37 needed to be untouchable I think.
Level 12-15: ~60 to be untouchable.
16+: 70+ to be untouchable.

Bit of a gap there from 5 to 11 but I'd expect to need see a general progression. However, there might a ~10 point jump up to the 60 figure starting with attack on stormreach (U7-8 content).

For hard/normal I'd expect that you can drop ~4 AB for each difficult level that you drop. Not sure on this one though.

My current TR is level 6 doing level 4 quests on elite with up to 40 AC, I'll let you know how I go if I remember.

[Goodheals]

This figure also changes by adventure pack and in general what foes you're fighting. Red and orange named mobs obviously have higher ABs. More recent adventure packs tend to need high AC to be effective.

Mechanically, you need to remember that there will be a range where AC is useful of 19 numbers.

Some observations of quests (all on elite):
Level 3-4: between 35-37 needed to be untouchable I think.
Level 12-15: ~60 to be untouchable.
16+: 70+ to be untouchable.

Bit of a gap there from 5 to 11 but I'd expect to need see a general progression. However, there might a ~10 point jump up to the 60 figure starting with attack on stormreach (U7-8 content).

For hard/normal I'd expect that you can drop ~4 AB for each difficult level that you drop. Not sure on this one though.

My current TR is level 6 doing level 4 quests on elite with up to 40 AC, I'll let you know how I go if I remember.

Very cool thank you.

I'm pretty sure, based off some rough calculations, that I'll be able to hit those numbers or very close to them. I may also focus on hard over elite, in which case it should be even easier like you said to dodge most attacks. My rough idea:

Levels 1-5 should be easy, not gonna worry about it since I'm sure I'll be unhittable.

Level 6-11. +4 Full Plate +4 Tower Shield +10 base should be 30. Can probably get around +4 Dex at this point. Stalwart gives +3 total. Will say +3 protection item. Barkskin +3 and Dodge +1 will even it around 45.

12-15. Stalwart adds 2 more, squeeze in 2 more dex probably either from enhancements or new Mobility feat (lots of extra feats on this char to toy with). Extra +1 Fullplate and +1 Shield. Start using Combat Expertise at this point for +5. The Bard I'll be leveling with should keep Heroics on me often for another +4 at this point. Will say I squeeze +2 from either a dodge or insight item. Should end around 60-62.

16-20. Stalwart adds 2 more. Squeeze in maybe 1 more dex (possibly more later should have room for a few more total). +2 extra protection item. Probably squeeze in say a +3 dodge item and a +2 insight item (so 3 more than previous). Haste will been on often enough to include its +1. Should end up around 70 without any non-bard buffs (I'm almost always with a Bard friend).

I may get even higher, depending on buffs and lucky item finds. There are a couple item/buff bonuses I haven't included to make it more realistic.

This look pretty reasonable?

[Ugumagre]

For normal, a good AC would be around lvl + 25.
I guess lvl +30 or lvl +35 would make you untouchable. On normal.

[donblas]

My 7th level Dwarf fighter has 52 unbuffed and that seems to be enough on elite.

[Goodheals]

My 7th level Dwarf fighter has 52 unbuffed and that seems to be enough on elite.

WOW can you give a breakdown? =)

[donblas]

WOW can you give a breakdown? =)

Here's my lvl 7 dwarf AC breakdown (sorry he was 52 not 53AC)
10 base
5 dex bonus (20dex) with mithral full plate and dwarf and fighter armor mastery enhancements
12 +4 mithral full plate
8 +4 mithral tower shield
3 +3 natural armor bonus (crafted necklace)
4 +4 protection cloak (crafted)
2 +2 dodge (stalwart defender stance)
5 combat expertise
1 dodge feat
1 stalwart defender enhancement
1 natural AC bonus from airship
52

he has DR 2/- and the 20% resistance to physical damage from shield mastery just in case anyone hits him

He's just levelled to 8 now and has gained another AC from +5 shield, and will get another when I get +5 armor.
I just realise I can sneak another one easily with a crafted +1 dodge item.

[EDIT] He's just got the world's most horrible +5 mithral full plate and a crafted dodge item to get AC55 at lvl8 all with easily obtainable gear.

No ioun stone alas!

[Thrudh]

My 7th level Dwarf fighter has 52 unbuffed and that seems to be enough on elite.

Yeah, I'd like to see the breakdown on this as well...

[xoowak]

Yeah, I'd like to see the breakdown on this as well...

Seems doable for a twinked-out character with a high level crafter to support it.

10 Base
13 +5 MFP
9 +5 MTS
6 Dex (15 Base +2 tome +5 item)
5 Dusty Rose ioun stone
1 Dodge Feat
1 Dodge (Nimble Trinket)
1 SDI
2 SD Stance
5 CE
------
53

Could get higher with crafted Dodge and Natural Armor items, but I don't know what the MLs are. Also armor and shield rituals.

[cdr]

Could get higher with crafted Dodge and Natural Armor items, but I don't know what the MLs are. Also armor and shield rituals.

Dodge is goggles/bracers/trinket; +1 is ML3 (ML1 with masterful craftsmanship) and +2 is ML7 (ML5 with MC). You have +1 covered with the Nimble Trinket, but you're also counting a Dusty Rose ioun stone, so you might want to either move dodge +1 to crafted or protection +5 to crafted (ML9, ML7 with MC).

Natural armor +3 is armor/shield/necklace/bracers/trinket/ring and ML5 (ML3 with MC). Keep in mind this is the same bonus as barkskin pots, though, and a cove hat is ML5/7/9 for +3/+4/+5.

You could also hold a Greater Parrying weapon for insight +2 if you really wanted to go all out.

[xoowak]

Can you wear +5 MFP and +5 MTS at level 7? I thought those were min level 8... I guess if both were Race-restricted. Edit: Also, alchemical rituals with +4 MFP and +4 MTS would work

Seems pretty silly to be using Combat Expertise at level 7 to get to 53... I'm pretty sure 48 AC gives him the exact same amount of protection as 53 in level 7-10 quests (Heck, in most cases I'd put away the shield and use a greataxe and a barkskin potion and be nearly untouched with a 40 AC while killing twice as fast)

Crafted plain +5 should be ML 6. With Tier 1 Cannith favor you can wear it at 4.

I agree it's probably not a good idea, I was just showing that the AC is achievable.

Dodge is goggles/bracers/trinket; +1 is ML3 (ML1 with masterful craftsmanship) and +2 is ML7 (ML5 with MC). You have +1 covered with the Nimble Trinket, but you're also counting a Dusty Rose ioun stone, so you might want to either move dodge +1 to crafted or protection +5 to crafted (ML9, ML7 with MC).

Natural armor +3 is armor/shield/necklace/bracers/trinket/ring and ML5 (ML3 with MC). Keep in mind this is the same bonus as barkskin pots, though, and a cove hat is ML5/7/9 for +3/+4/+5.

Good catch. I had initally considered Superior Stability for protection +6, but that would eat into the armor or shield bonus. I added the Dusty Rose later and forgot to take nimble out. Still, crafting either the +1 dodge or the +5 protection would still leave a slot open for +2 dodge. Since the post was only regarding unbuffed AC, I'll count the +3 NA ring for even more AC. (Not counting hat, because very few people would bother to craft a cove hat specifically for levels 7 and 8).

That's a net gain of 5. If we assume the shield and armor rituals, that's another 2 for a total of 60 AC unbuffed. Drop the shield and turn on Power Attack for a 46 unbuffed in DPS mode.

[Thrudh]

Seems doable for a twinked-out character with a high level crafter to support it.

10 Base
13 +5 MFP
9 +5 MTS
6 Dex (15 Base +2 tome +5 item)
5 Dusty Rose ioun stone
1 Dodge Feat
1 Dodge (Nimble Trinket)
1 SDI
2 SD Stance
5 CE
------
53

Could get higher with crafted Dodge and Natural Armor items, but I don't know what the MLs are. Also armor and shield rituals.

Can you wear +5 MFP and +5 MTS at level 7? I thought those were min level 8... I guess if both were Race-restricted. Edit: Also, alchemical rituals with +4 MFP and +4 MTS would work

Seems pretty silly to be using Combat Expertise at level 7 to get to 53... I'm pretty sure 48 AC gives him the exact same amount of protection as 53 in level 7-10 quests (Heck, in most cases I'd put away the shield and use a greataxe and a barkskin potion and be nearly untouched with a 40 AC while killing twice as fast)

Good breakdown though... It does show that a decent AC isn't that hard to get. And I agree with others that it is very useful while leveling.

[Thrudh]

50 AC in Gianthold is solid
60 AC in the Vale is solid
70 AC in Amrath is solid

[vampiregoat69]

This is funny cause I had a 22 on my archer and NOTHING misses him like it used to. 33 on my monk buffed and he gets hit often. So at lvl 1-? I think you need to start with the most UBER ac and UBER gear possible to not get hit so often. I miss the days when a 20AC was ok and 30 was WOW.

[Zenako]

If you get a chance, make a nice Hat in CC the next time. One can put Nat Armor +5 on it with a pretty low Min level (add a useful skill kicker like Balance for example.) There are other sources for Heavy Fort beyond Minos, and when you have very high AC heavy fort becomes less vital, since you get critted so seldom.

If you can grab some Mithril PLate and Tower Shields you can get more boost from Dex. Can also add Alchemetical boosts to those items as well. I have a level 12 AC halfling dude (in the sig below)with a standing 24/7 AC of 57 IIRC right now with no raid items or other uber gear. Its a first pass character from 2007 or so, no rerolls (so some stat mistakes), but he can run around GH with pretty much impunity. Toss in some buffs like haste and over 60 is no problem.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

So far all the estimates are quite far off.
Take it from someone who always levels with AC in mind (simply because it's so easy to get and gives you so much).

Low levels
1-4 - Around 23 and it's good, 26 and it's unhittable unless it's a named
5-9 - Around 30 and you're unhittable, and it's quite easy to reach because of barkskin (+3) and sof(+3) pots at level 5.
Anything pre gianthold - Around 35 and you're unhittable in all content pre gianthold (with some exceptions). I usually go to gianthold at level 14 on a TR.
Gianthold is a bit higher, you'll need around 50 for the quests to be unhittable, a bit more if it includes giants (madstone, trial, etc), then you'll need mid 50s.
Vale is suprisingly enough lower than GH, and you'll only need low 50s to be unhittable in any quest.
Orchard is in the lines of Vale where you need low 50s and sometimes lower.
The next big jump is for Amrath, where you need low 60s to mid 60s to be unhittable.

After that it's just the raids and epics where you need high 80s and beyond for any effect. (Easy raids such as shroud, vod and such only require mid 60s for unhittable by the raid bosses).

Most of these numbers are for normal, but generally any of these numbers will work on all difficulties, of course it won't mean "unhittable" on elite.

Easy way to get AC while leveling:
10 base
3 dex
8+x for mithral full plate, remove 2 from dex if you don't have one)
3 barkskin potion
3 shield of faith potion
1 haste potion
-----
28, and then another 1 more per + of your full plate, and guild buffs if you have those.

Throw in a shield after that, which you should use if you're rushing (doesn't matter on class) and you'll get another 1+x if it's light (casters) or more if it's a tower shield (melees).

That way you have around mid 30s low 40s without any investment in it besides gear. Once you reach GH you dump all the ac for other stuff, unless you have high 40s or low 50s.

[Calebro]

So far all the estimates are quite far off.
Take it from someone who always levels with AC in mind (simply because it's so easy to get and gives you so much).

I do the same, and I concur with A-O's estimates.
The only thing that I'd add is that the Desert should have been addressed. The numbers you need there are similar to, but slightly less than, GH's numbers. The 35 he was speaking of for pre-GH doesn't quite cut it there, but 50 isn't needed either, so that's one of the exceptions he spoke of.
I find that approximately 43 or so (slightly variable depending on the quest, which all have different mobs) works fairly well.

Of course, with the fact that few people actually run normal anymore because of the bravery bonus, these numbers don't quite hold up anymore. If you're running for streaks you need to adjust for that.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I do the same, and I concur with A-O's estimates.
The only thing that I'd add is that the Desert should have been addressed. The numbers you need there are similar to, but slightly less than, GH's numbers. The 35 he was speaking of for pre-GH doesn't quite cut it there, but 50 isn't needed either, so that's one of the exceptions he spoke of.
I find that approximately 43 or so (slightly variable depending on the quest, which all have different mobs) works fairly well.

Of course, with the fact that few people actually run normal anymore because of the bravery bonus, these numbers don't quite hold up anymore. If you're running for streaks you need to adjust for that.

Of course, I forgot about Desert. Well actually I remembered it after posting but couldn't be arsed to edit it in. Thanks for point it out.

And I agree, low to mid 40s is all you need in the desert.

[LFKnowledge]

Sorry for the necro, but I've actually put to use the information on this thread and just providing feedback.

This is a great thread, I find that most AC advice given is that "don't bother, takes too much to get worthwhile AC, etc."
After reading this below:

So far all the estimates are quite far off.
Take it from someone who always levels with AC in mind (simply because it's so easy to get and gives you so much).

Low levels
1-4 - Around 23 and it's good, 26 and it's unhittable unless it's a named
5-9 - Around 30 and you're unhittable, and it's quite easy to reach because of barkskin (+3) and sof(+3) pots at level 5.

.....

Easy way to get AC while leveling:
10 base
3 dex
8+x for mithral full plate, remove 2 from dex if you don't have one)
3 barkskin potion
3 shield of faith potion
1 haste potion
-----
28, and then another 1 more per + of your full plate, and guild buffs if you have those.

Throw in a shield after that, which you should use if you're rushing (doesn't matter on class) and you'll get another 1+x if it's light (casters) or more if it's a tower shield (melees).

That way you have around mid 30s low 40s without any investment in it besides gear. Once you reach GH you dump all the ac for other stuff, unless you have high 40s or low 50s.

I took this advice and made a big difference in survivability and fun factor.
1st life, I was a Fighter Stalwart Defender, with AC in the 70s. (Using Combat Expertise feat, enhancements, sword and board, etc)
2nd life, did Paladin, but thought that AC was hard to maintain, so opted to go THF dps. Dumped AC early on, and started running into bumps around the L7 range. Was taking a lot of damage and was really missing the AC.

That was about the time I found this thread and applied A-O's advice.

I use a cat's grace potion from marketplace in lieu of the dexterity. (started with low dex, and use gear slots for str, con and other stuff)

Used mithral full plates from previous life, that also had the alchemical rituals.

Was able to use cannith crafting (natural armor on bracers) for the barkskin potions. This was discovered later on, did use barkskin pots at first.

Also used cannith crafting (protection on cloaks) for the shield of faith potions. Also used pots before the crafting.

Mainly went THF, and didn't want to use a shield, so found out that I could use a Shield clicky, that gave me +4 AC. Also added bonus of immunity to magic missiles. At level 5 range, short duration of 1 minute, so I have several clickies and mainly activate when I know big fights are coming up.

As mentioned by A-O, haste pot and ship buffs added to the AC total.

Overall, was very glad to see "misses" again, made me more survivable. AC was easily in the 30s.
I did dump AC during/leaving Sands and entered GH.

Very satisfied with how AC is helping with the leveling. Thank you all!

[Zenako]

What the OP also has to keep in mind is context.

For some players, the only AC that matters in a quest is what you need to be almost unhittable against the boss on Elite. That all the other encounters are just "trash" that you kill quick and get a little mass healing after the fact to touch up the boo boos.

That number can be significantly higher than the number you need to cruise through the rest of the quest with ease however.

Thus the source of the difference from various players regarding a specific AC level in a quest or group of quests. (For example all trash in a quest have +20ish to hit, so your 43 AC is virtually unhittable, but the Boss has +30 to hit, so it is pounding you a third of the time which for some would hardly be worth it (when on a cleric I would disagree, but that is another thread).)

In addition, for some "good AC" means only getting direct hits on 20's, while for others, effective AC is any level the reduces the RATE of incoming melee damage to something that is easy to manage. When on my clerics, it is easy to see who has some effective AC (Or other means of damage avoidance, DR or twitch skills) and who does not. On most "good AC" types I could drop a Divine Healing on them and go focus on others for a while.

Keep in mind that mobs get situational modifiers too (like flanking) so standing in the middle of whole crew they all have a few extras points of to hit bonus, while backed up against a wall they won't.