How much AC at each level to be near-unhittable?

[donblas]

By the way, even a wizard can get good AC at low levels:
10 base
+4 armor (Mage armor pot/clicky/wand etc)
+3 barkskin pot
+2 cats grace pot/wand
+2 deflection (protect evil/shield of faith etc)
+4 shield spell/clicky
+1 abishai set (ML:5)
+1 cove nimble trinket (ML:4)
+1 haste potion/clicky (ML:5)
=28

Hah! 29 is nothing I have a lvl6 wizard with 34AC. She's a bit of a silly build, but I made her in response to a thread about PnP elf fighter magic users. So the idea was to wear metal armour and use longsword (superior combustion III pure good) and longbow like the PnP original.

10 base
3 dex bonus
9 +5 mithral chain shirt (race required elf)
5 +4 mithral small shield
3 natural armor bonus (crafted ring)
3 +3 cloak of protection (crafted)
1 natural AC airship
34

Has 0% arcane spell failure due to mithral armour and shield, arcane fluidity and crafted arcane casting dexterity gloves.

I could probably fit in a dodge item I guess.

[Zenako]

Hah! 29 is nothing I have a lvl6 wizard with 34AC. She's a bit of a silly build, but I made her in response to a thread about PnP elf fighter magic users. So the idea was to wear metal armour and use longsword (superior combustion III pure good) and longbow like the PnP original.

10 base
3 dex bonus
9 +5 mithral chain shirt (race required elf)
5 +4 mithral small shield
3 natural armor bonus (crafted ring)
3 +3 cloak of protection (crafted)
1 natural AC airship
34

Has 0% arcane spell failure due to mithral armour and shield, arcane fluidity and crafted arcane casting dexterity gloves.

I could probably fit in a dodge item I guess.

Sounds interesting and is also germane to some Warchanter type bard builds, looking for a bit more survivability in the middle of things, (Which is where most WC types end up in my experience.)

[wax_on_wax_off]

Wax on wax off, it would be useful to all if you also mentioned the setting (Norm, Hard, Elite) that you are one with each post. The AC needed in quests changes a lot with that setting. And the resultant ease of running as well. Also in group or solo can affect most mobs ability to hurt you. In every case, you the PC are basically the same offense and defense values. So if we take a case where you AC is just good enough to hit the 5% on normal solo, let see what happens. Dungeon scaling is a very powerful effect.

For example: Character with 42 AC and 190 HP. Runs quest X.
Casual/Solo: Mobs hit 5% of the time and do 5 points per hit when solo. Without healing you are good for 38 average hits (190/5), or slightly under 760 enemy swings.
Casual/Full Group: Mobs still hit 5% and now do 8 points per hit in full Group. W/O healing you are good for 24 hits or 480 enemy swings.

Normal/Solo: Mobs hit same 5% of the time and now do 10 per hit when solo. Good for 19 hits and for 380 enemy swings.
Normal/Full Group: Lets give a nudge slightly here to 10% and doing 15 per hit. Hit points good for 13 hits and for only 130 Enemy swings.

Hard/Solo: Mobs now hit 25% of the time and do 12 per hit. Good for 16 hits, but it only take 64 enemy swings.
Hard/Full Group: Mobs now hit 35% of the time and do 16 per hit. Good for 12 hits and that takes only 35 enemy swings.

Elite/Solo: Mobs now hit 50% of the time and do 19 per hit. You are good for 10 hits and that takes just 20 enemy swings.
Elite/Full Group: Mobs hit 55% of the time and do 20 per hit. You are good for the same 10 hits (due to rounding) and will last for 18 enemy swings.

Now this simplistic example gets clouded with grazing hits since th odds of those also increase with setting. Having some good static DR can seriously mitigate that damage on lower levels, almost making it a non factor.

The key point to take is the RATE of damage mitigation that occurs. A simple tasty ham can often keep you fully healthy in a normal encounter where the RATE of incoming damage is slow enough that it can be offset by the healing ticks. Also the simple survivability increases at lower challenge levels.

Add to that the fact that mob AC and HP also are affected by dungeon scaling. Your ability to kill them quicker increases a lot when solo. The effects were extremely pronounced during extensive testing some time back.

So if you could identify the setting and group size, that helps a lot in making clear assessments of the value of certain levels of AC in quests. AC is just one component of the goal of DAMAGE MITIGATION. That goal can be hit with AC, avoidance of hits via blur, displacement, etc and simple movement skills to not be where the mobs are swinging (which can require levels of game skill that elude many players). All work to mitigate the damage. Finally DR can be an important factor in this.

Sorry, I mentioned it in a previous post but I'm elite streaking. I haven't repeated a quest since kobolds new ringleader. I'm level 10 now and loving it. I can wait to 12 when I get a big chunk of gear.

Sitting on about 40-45 AC Im seeing 80-95% missing depending on mob which is low enough that I can wand heal between fights.

The biggest risk on elite is spellcasters. I have an unsuppressed pale lavender ioun stone but in some quests that goes pretty quick. I'd suggest to combine AC with good saves/SR etc.

[Zenako]

Sorry, I mentioned it in a previous post but I'm elite streaking. I haven't repeated a quest since kobolds new ringleader. I'm level 10 now and loving it. I can wait to 12 when I get a big chunk of gear.

Sitting on about 40-45 AC Im seeing 80-95% missing depending on mob which is low enough that I can wand heal between fights.

The biggest risk on elite is spellcasters. I have an unsuppressed pale lavender ioun stone but in some quests that goes pretty quick. I'd suggest to combine AC with good saves/SR etc.

Cool, I missed it. I like seeing writeups like this. (My AC character is level 12 and at 24/7 57AC now, so I know the feeling. I have Golden Greaves on him for a nice DR3/- and often use some weapons like a Frost+Bodyfeeder of Punturing Rapier when soloing. Hardly need to drink any pots that way. Sure it takes a bit longer, but it is a nice change of pace from being a punching bag with no AC.)

[wax_on_wax_off]

Cool, I missed it. I like seeing writeups like this. (My AC character is level 12 and at 24/7 57AC now, so I know the feeling. I have Golden Greaves on him for a nice DR3/- and often use some weapons like a Frost+Bodyfeeder of Punturing Rapier when soloing. Hardly need to drink any pots that way. Sure it takes a bit longer, but it is a nice change of pace from being a punching bag with no AC.)

Yeah I'm a little bit worried that the AC has plateaued a little early. +2 from +5 protection, +2 from +6 dex/wis items +1 from monk wis I/greater adaptability: wisdom should get me to 50 but the 60 that I want for 12 to 18 content might be out of reach.

Am I missing anything?

So far:
10 base
+2 14 base wisdom
+3 15 base dex +1 rogue dex
+4 House P stat buffs/wands
+1 profane Abishai set
+2 dodge Chaosguard
+4 Mage armour (house P buff or wand)
+3 bark pot
+3 deflection
+1 haste (pot)
+4 from ship buffs
+2 from dex/wis +2 tomes
+2 from water stance
+1 dodge nimble trinket
+1 monk AC (from level 2 monk)
=43 standing
+4 shield clicky (will be more sustainable soon with level 5/10 wands)
+5 versatility: armour class
+6 improved uncanny dodge
=58 burst

Moving shield and adding the above mods wil see standing AC of 52 at level ~13. I'm flagged for Titan, maybe try for a chattering for 55 standing. Maybe put lfms for bard/ranger/paladin and I could manage over 60 no worries :P

Still, not bad for a rogue. Hopefully the ~35 stunning fist DC will let me take mobs down quickly even if they do hit me a bit and the vampiric on stonedust will hopefully keep me healed enough.

I suppose 1 option is to move +2 dodge to crafted goggles for instance and wear +5 or better armour bracers. Any other sources of AC that I've missed?

[donblas]

Sounds interesting and is also germane to some Warchanter type bard builds, looking for a bit more survivability in the middle of things, (Which is where most WC types end up in my experience.)

Warchanters have a bit more flexibility as they don't have to worry about spell failure for light armour after lvl6 and medium armour after lvl12, so they can use mithral breastplate at the lower level and mithral full plate later. An armoured wizard really has to use mithral chainshirt at lvl6. So it should be far easier to get good AC on a warchanter than a wizard I suspect.

[Zenako]

One thing you could have done is make a nice Crystal Cove Hat for the character. I have a Nat Armor +5, Balance +15 hat on my guy. While you can get Pots, those take too long to keep drinking and can dispel and or wear off at inconvenient times. I found that with AC that high was I was not getting hit for crits worth worrying about and I had enough HP to withstand the 1/400 chance that most mobs had. (I do have a Heavy Fort Ring I can pop on when needed if it becomes an issue like against some bosses.) As a Fighter build I had toughness already and all the enhancements that go with it, so did not need the Minos nearly as much as some might.

You can get +6 Armor Bracers pretty cheaply on the AH, and sometimes +7 for a few more AC. My guy is a MFP Fighter build, so that goes down a whole different line of AC attainment.

[Thrudh]

Here's my lvl 7 dwarf AC breakdown (sorry he was 52 not 53AC)
10 base
5 dex bonus (20dex) with mithral full plate and dwarf and fighter armor mastery enhancements
12 +4 mithral full plate
8 +4 mithral tower shield
3 +3 natural armor bonus (crafted necklace)
4 +4 protection cloak (crafted)
2 +2 dodge (stalwart defender stance)
5 combat expertise
1 dodge feat
1 stalwart defender enhancement
1 natural AC bonus from airship
52

he has DR 2/- and the 20% resistance to physical damage from shield mastery just in case anyone hits him

He's just levelled to 8 now and has gained another AC from +5 shield, and will get another when I get +5 armor.
I just realise I can sneak another one easily with a crafted +1 dodge item.

[EDIT] He's just got the world's most horrible +5 mithral full plate and a crafted dodge item to get AC55 at lvl8 all with easily obtainable gear.

No ioun stone alas!

And he is unhittable - I can attest!

My squishy sorc died in the maze in Valak's Mausoleum and he did not. It then took about 10 mins for him to kill everything tho before we could resurrect! Got there in the end tho and we completed with 4mins to spare.

AJ

I would suggest he turn off Combat Expertise and turn on Power Attack... He'll STILL be unhittable with "only" a 50 AC at level 8, and it will only take him 5 minutes to kill everything and get you to a shrine instead of 10 minutes.

[donblas]

I would suggest he turn off Combat Expertise and turn on Power Attack... He'll STILL be unhittable with "only" a 50 AC at level 8, and it will only take him 5 minutes to kill everything and get you to a shrine instead of 10 minutes.

It is a downside of the build that he doesn't kill as fast as my THF and TWF toons

I do toggle CE on and off depending on whether I'm hitting all the time or not, but seeing as everyone else was dead (and all the stuff that killed them was surrounding my toon) and we hadn't opened the shrine yet I was being ultra cautious (probably TOO cautious).

I'm now starting to worry where i can get more Ac from in the next few levels (I know I can up protection and a couple of other things but I wants MOAR!)

I'm not sure his 299HP are enough either

[Zenako]

I'm not sure his 299HP are enough either

Probably fine for lots of combat, even against some boss types, but the real kicker will be spell damage from sources you can't save against. (Searing Light for example....grrrr). Thats why I have a row of resist 20 pots all lined up on a hotbar for example, next to a row of Prot pots. Its the no saving throw damage that can get you and that is where lower hit points becomes a bigger issue.

[donblas]

Probably fine for lots of combat, even against some boss types, but the real kicker will be spell damage from sources you can't save against. (Searing Light for example....grrrr). Thats why I have a row of resist 20 pots all lined up on a hotbar for example, next to a row of Prot pots. Its the no saving throw damage that can get you and that is where lower hit points becomes a bigger issue.

He is only lvl8 He hasn't been one-shotted yet.

[Arsont]

Personally, I found that mid 30's was good enough to about level 5, then it increases every 5 levels or so for a bit before leveling off around lv 18. To not get hit much (Miss chance 95%) in elites, a good way to think of it is to have your AC=(Quest level)*5. What I mean by this: You'll want to be about ± 5 AC for elite content at level (Meaning, +/- 2 levels of the quest level). However, with some of the newer content, this isn't really as true as it used to be.

Some general benchmarks for elite quests to be pretty much unhitable:
Harbor:30 AC
Market (lv 5ish quests): 40 AC
Red Fens/Von: 50 AC
Gianthold/Necro 4: 65 AC
Vale: 70 AC
Amrath: 85 AC

Those are general numbers I tend to use for my benchmarks in each level range. The actual values may vary ± 5 AC based on the quest. For example, you'll be wanting ~70 AC to be missed much by the giantish types in elite Madstone (Ogres, Trolls), but only a 65 AC to be missed in elite Temple of Vol (Both are level 14 quests, 16 on elite).

Once you hit elite Amrath/Inspired Quarter, some of the mobs have a stupid amount of to-hit, so you'll be wanting upwards of 80 AC at that point.

Hope this makes sense.

[Grenada]

Personally, I found that mid 30's was good enough to about level 5, then it increases every 5 levels or so for a bit before leveling off around lv 18. To not get hit much (Miss chance 95%) in elites, a good way to think of it is to have your AC=(Quest level)*5. What I mean by this: You'll want to be about ± 5 AC for elite content at level (Meaning, +/- 2 levels of the quest level). However, with some of the newer content, this isn't really as true as it used to be.

Some general benchmarks for elite quests to be pretty much unhitable:
Harbor:30 AC
Market (lv 5ish quests): 40 AC
Red Fens/Von: 50 AC
Gianthold/Necro 4: 65 AC
Vale: 70 AC
Amrath: 85 AC

Those are general numbers I tend to use for my benchmarks in each level range. The actual values may vary ± 5 AC based on the quest. For example, you'll be wanting ~70 AC to be missed much by the giantish types in elite Madstone (Ogres, Trolls), but only a 65 AC to be missed in elite Temple of Vol (Both are level 14 quests, 16 on elite).

Once you hit elite Amrath/Inspired Quarter, some of the mobs have a stupid amount of to-hit, so you'll be wanting upwards of 80 AC at that point.

Hope this makes sense.

Elite vale, I'm pretty sure 60 will do. Your numbers do seem a tad high.

[Thrudh]

Personally, I found that mid 30's was good enough to about level 5, then it increases every 5 levels or so for a bit before leveling off around lv 18. To not get hit much (Miss chance 95%) in elites, a good way to think of it is to have your AC=(Quest level)*5. What I mean by this: You'll want to be about ± 5 AC for elite content at level (Meaning, +/- 2 levels of the quest level). However, with some of the newer content, this isn't really as true as it used to be.

Some general benchmarks for elite quests to be pretty much unhitable:
Harbor:30 AC
Market (lv 5ish quests): 40 AC
Red Fens/Von: 50 AC
Gianthold/Necro 4: 65 AC
Vale: 70 AC
Amrath: 85 AC

Those are general numbers I tend to use for my benchmarks in each level range. The actual values may vary ± 5 AC based on the quest. For example, you'll be wanting ~70 AC to be missed much by the giantish types in elite Madstone (Ogres, Trolls), but only a 65 AC to be missed in elite Temple of Vol (Both are level 14 quests, 16 on elite).

Once you hit elite Amrath/Inspired Quarter, some of the mobs have a stupid amount of to-hit, so you'll be wanting upwards of 80 AC at that point.

Hope this makes sense.

Those numbers are WAY too high... 60 AC in Vale and you don't get hit. 55 AC in Gianthold and you don't get hit, 70 AC in Amrath and you don't get hit... You do not need 85 AC in Amrath.

[Arsont]

Those numbers are WAY too high... 60 AC in Vale and you don't get hit. 55 AC in Gianthold and you don't get hit, 70 AC in Amrath and you don't get hit... You do not need 85 AC in Amrath.

My numbers are based on the assumption the OP wants to run elite content while being barely touched.

As the title asks, I was wondering if anyone had some insight into what ballpark figures you need in AC to be unhittable aside from grazing hits and Natural 20's.

Also, I noted that my numbers are within 5 AC of the required values; This is to keep account of the various to-hits the mobs will have. For example, trash in Vale will miss you more often than will the trog warlords, or any of the named mobs. So yes, my numbers are a bit high for standard trash or for normal, but my numbers are for 95% miss on elite (I don't know the normal/hard because I usually meet the numbers for elite, so it covers all difficulties).

[Hephaistor]

My Level 20 dwarfen tempest has an standing AC in the mid 60's:

10 Base Armor Bonus
10 Armor Bonus Parasitic Breastplate
11 Dex Bonus (8 from the Plate and +3 from enhancements)
05 Natural Armor Bonus Barkskin
03 Narural Armor Bonus Rough Hide (on the Plate, stacks)
04 Shield Bonus Tempest III
04 Insight Bonus
05 Deflection Bonus Protection +5
05 Dodge Bonus Defensive Fighting
03 Dodge Bonus
02 Dodge Bonus
01 Dodge Bonus
03 Ship Shrines
------------------------------------------------------------
= 66 AC without buffs from palas, bards, clerics

I don't have a +4 dodge item, because I cant wear Icy Raiments. With a bard in group I am hitting 70 AC. Is there an other source for dodge +4 then Icy Raiments? Would it stack with the bard song? Should I dump AC alltoghter and use the slots for DPS? If I TR and take a monk level I would get my wisdom bonus to AC, but would loose +5 from the Parasitic breatplate (-3 from Roughe Hide and -2 from less armor bonus, 8 is max with cloth, right?) So I would need 22+ WIS and a +8 armor bonus item to make it work, seems not to hard. What are the best +8 Armor bracers? Do you know any other AC Bonuses I could get on my ranger? Does the dodge feat stack with an +1 dodge item? Can I get the eldirch ritual on the parasitic breastplate for an other +1?

[wax_on_wax_off]

So I've just leveled to 11. I missed a couple of the level 8's (Threnal, Spies in the House, Haunted Library) as I was basically capped on XP.

I've been sitting on 43 AC buffed without any outside buffs and I'm starting to get hit a little in some quests and having to rely on short term buffs for when I don't want to get hit.

Necro 2: 47-50+ needed.
Von1/2: ~47 AC is ok
Sorrowdusk: 40-43 is fine except for mephits, need 47-50 for those.
Delera's: 35-40 is fine for most of this.

Time for me to get some level 5/10 shield wands and keep them up all the time I think. 47 will helpfully do me through level 9 quests (von3-4 etc).

[wax_on_wax_off]

So I found +5 dex boots in my TR bank, a Wand of Shield (5th) on another toon and a guildy passed along a Locus of Vol. I reshuffled my enhancements to make advantage of the new odd stats and now will have 49 sustainable AC with the possibility to burst up to 59 with improved uncanny dodge and versatility: armour.

With a friendly paladin and ranger in the party the sustainable AC goes up to 54.

I'll try this out in von3, von4 and shadow crypt on elite and let you know how it goes. I'll probably level to 12 after that but might do another quest or two (like Keeper's Sanctuary in Delera's). All quests will be on elite of course. Sleep first though ...

PS In Tomb of the Shadow King I was surviving ok against the undead when they were in the torches suffering from the curse with about 43 AC. That quest was hilarious, even with 2 clerics in a 4 man group my rogue had the sort of kill count that usually the wizard gets with firewall. Still, quite long and painful without solid AoEs.

[donblas]

OK I'm going to try an experiment. I have 30+ toons of various levels, classes and ACs. I'm going to step in and let stuff attack me and see what hit % I estimate. For speed purposes I'll probably only go a little way in until I am attacked. Or I'll possibly go further if it's thought I should find an orange or red name.

Could someone suggest useful quests/wildernesses/difficulties to try out to get sample data?

I have casters at lvls 4, 6 10 and 11
I have bards at 4, 9, 11, 14
Artificers 7, 8
Fighters/paladins at 8, 11, 13, 14
barbarians at 9, 10
Unarmored monk splashes at 7, 8, 12, 13
Rangers at 9, 10, 11, 17, 19, 20
Cleric at 13

[wax_on_wax_off]

OK I'm going to try an experiment. I have 30+ toons of various levels, classes and ACs. I'm going to step in and let stuff attack me and see what hit % I estimate. For speed purposes I'll probably only go a little way in until I am attacked. Or I'll possibly go further if it's thought I should find an orange or red name.

Could someone suggest useful quests/wildernesses/difficulties to try out to get sample data?

I have casters at lvls 4, 6 10 and 11
I have bards at 4, 9, 11, 14
Artificers 7, 8
Fighters/paladins at 8, 11, 13, 14
barbarians at 9, 10
Unarmored monk splashes at 7, 8, 12, 13
Rangers at 9, 10, 11, 17, 19, 20
Cleric at 13

I'd suggest an intervention against your altohism but if we tried to sit you down you'd outnumber us.