How do you do your Mass Heals in the Shroud Pt. 4 (and/or 5)

[Calebro]

...I never said using meta-Cures was most sp efficient. Maybe you're thinking of Enoach's post?

A lot can be said for the Quickened Heal, Mass - with Cure, Mass Standby for its efficiency.

There is a HUGE difference between SPAMMING Mass Heal and effectively casting it. The former is a terrible strategy IMO, the latter is where you want to be. That's all I was trying to say.

You shouldn't be spamming anything in there, Mass Cures nor Mass Heals, unless the lag is bad enough to warrant it. I never said you should.

My TR 17/2 FvS, currently without Mass Heal, is forced to use only Mass Cures at the moment. I only toss one when needed. I do not spam. I watch the bars and heal as SP efficiently as I can.
You know what else I do?
I run out of SP in a pug. In guild runs it isn't an issue. In a pug, my SP is gone. On my capped FvS, who hasn't crafted an SP item yet and as such has a smaller blue bar than the level 19 toon, uses Mass Heal and doesn't have issues with SP.
Telling people that Mass Cures is the way to go is simply bad advice.

Have you even healed a Shroud since the update?

[ice584]

1a. I agree that hitting it even when it's not needed is not wise. There are times I see the damage isn't coming, so I'm pausing to hit mass heal again. But, as sirgog said, even WITH overhealing you're STILL more efficient than cures.

2a. I have no problem with your build. You do what you want. I doubt any raid party is EVER going to dis you for your large SP pool. But, I built to be a divine caster. That meant maxing wis. So, my sp is more like, 2750ish. (32pt build) I'm real comfortable with that amount. If I can't get shroud done with 2700, then someone is doing something wrong I think.

3a. I don't know the numbers for sure, but when you're rockin a sup. brilliance clickie, critting on DPs, you're in range for your archon, AND you have a melee championed to get light vulnerability procs, you're contributing a truckload more than 50dps. I'm not going to compare it to a full barb or something, but it's substantial I think.


I understand your idea of ending with 1k sp. I just don't agree. SOme of that should be used to "punish" Harry if possible. That's just my op obviously.


BTW, I ran a hard shroud last night and we were down 2 major DPS on part 4 (one early death, and one DC which was Axer rocking his sick barb with eSOS) We still owned harry without too much trouble and I think I had 500ish sp left. I was keeping my DPs up and pretty much only using mass heal. except for blade transition times or whatever. It took us about 1.3 rounds give or take. Part 5 was similar but I had maybe 300-400sp left. Only 1 death (bard). I'm real comfortable with that. But, I'm just one dude.

1a 100% agree. The distinction between spamming and casting effectively is the difference here. I've seen more than a few healers litterally spamming the button regardless of health bars and I think this comes about because someone told them to "spam Mass Heals". So that's what they do. IMO, instruction should be something more like, "Use Mass Heals instead of Cures as much as possible to be most efficient. If the situation calls for it, spam it. Sometimes more than Mass Heal spamming is required, so toss in some Cures when you're on cooldown. Sometimes nothing is required, so just watch the health bars."

2a I was just trying to answer your questions about how I got there.

3a Yeah, you get those bonuses rolling and that changes things significantly. Also, as you mentioned, when you're short some DPS party members, your DPS can become much more helpful. I haven't run the numbers either, because that just wasn't my focus. My thoughts are just that the DPS output I have per sp would be lower than the amount of DPS the rest of the party can output during that extra time I can keep them alive by spending sp on heals instead. So, my focus of choice is healing.

[Calebro]

sadface @ all these posts that include dealing damage

healer != dealing damage

Here we are folks. I have identified the problem.

2a. Good CHA and some basic end game gear. I'm still using the Sora Kel set for example, so don't think I'm talking Epic gear here. Your standard sp build for Greensteel gets you 600sp, coupled with Mental Toughness / Improved / and 30+ CHA you can get there pretty easily. I had over 3k sp on my first life. With my second life I dropped CHA a bit snice I have the past life. If you know what role you will play in the party, why not build for it? Second life I think my starting stats were 12/12/14/8/16/16.

He has build not one, but two heal-bots. No wonder he doesn't understand the offensive power of divine casters. He's too busy spending feats in Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughess, and spending a bunch of stat points and AP on Cha.

That's certainly one way to build a FvS, but it isn't the only way.

[twigzz]

You really can't spam mass heals.... If I just spammed mass heals I would always have ton of sp left lol.

I'd rather have a melee/healer or evoker/healer FvS in my group than a healbot any day of the week. They contribute far more. My healer only has 2.7ksp and has never had a problem. Solo healed many many many Shrouds, some VoD's, some ToD's and plenty of other content. I will use mass heal any time I can, its more efficient.

My healer is a WF with 600+hp, 2.7k sp(could easily be more if I wanted), ~40str and ~30con. Emp healing, max, quicken. Melee+DP= a **** ton of DPS compared to 0. He's also a first lifer.

[sirgog]

You really can't spam mass heals.... If I just spammed mass heals I would always have ton of sp left lol.

This, throwing Quickened Mass Heal every cooldown is ~8 SP per second (~9 if you elect to put Empower Healing on).

An ungeared 18th level FvS has something like 2k SP IIRC - that means you can spam Mass Heal for four minutes. Four minutes is about how long a highly geared melee would take to solo a 120k HP mob like part 4 normal Arraetrikos.

[heavenandhell]

If you are a healer, and not healing a tank in a raid, casting any healing spell other than quickened mass heal means something is wrong or a special situation is occuring i.e. bomb bats in VOD. So just cast mass heal unless you see a special situation, lag or to save yourself.

Mass heal is the singular most efficient healing spell. Learning its timing helps you and the melees prepare for harder quests where spamming heals leads to failure. Many FavS have such high sp that you can heal differently but its good to start with good habits.

Mass heal is a slow spell but its so powerful that i even use it proactively, if I see a flying abashai at the start of EChrono and I will start casting it knowing that it will land right after the party takes damage. Its not that many sp and it can keep the party up. I also proactively cast when I see a situation comming but have time to start casting. Its a great spell learn every nuance of it because it is the dominant healing spell of elite and epic content.

[Mellkor]

Easy. Dont bring anyone that cant self heal.

[LordPiglet]

im surprised to hear that some even can squeeze in some DP.. maybe im being too paranoid and the people dying are not my fault...

@ Kwyjibo, do you wait a bit for their Hp's to go down and pace yourself? Or do you cast right away as soon as the cooldown is over?

Though its been a while, I learned the way I heal based on my Shroud experiences from my first life as a Cleric where I had a lot of runs with less geared / casual players. Everything seems to be going ok until the Boss does one attack and everyone is half damaged, then quickly within a second does another attack and half the group is dead. So its this quick burst of damage from him that I'm afraid of. And it can happen anytime so I try to just spam non-stop...

What it appears based on both of your replies, i may be trying too hard and doing fine, and if the group dies, its not my fault.. Each of my 3 shroud runs since U12, i've used at least 1 Pot on my FVS. 5, 3 and 1. Hopefully next run its 0. At least as a consolation I was thanked for my healing and we got through them safe.

Equip firestorm greaves, activate ardor clickie (just incass i need a mass cure), activate superior brilliance V clickie. Stand in front of Harry, beat on him with anarchic burst blessed silver gs of evil outsider bane, hit mass heal (quicken and empower heal on) when off timer, hit dp when off timer. If both spells are off timer at the same time, hit heal first, unless squishy melee annoyed me, then let them die by going with dp first.

Only downside is there's no arcane lore for the divine punishment, but I do have the major healing lore on the epic mask of comedy.

[LordPiglet]

sadface @ all these posts that include dealing damage

healer != dealing damage

yeah, you're right. I'm not a healer, I'm a divine caster capable of multi tasking.

While your melee is standing in there beating on him, I'm debuffing him everytime he hits me, casting on him, beating on him and keeping your ass alive.

you're welcome

[dkyle]

I melee Harry, keep DP on him, and cast Quickened/Maximized/Empowered Mass Cures as needed. Yeah, it's not SP-efficient, but I've never come close to running out of SP. I hate the long cast time on Mass Heal.

[Calebro]

yeah, you're right. I'm not a healer, I'm a divine caster capable of multi tasking.

While your melee is standing in there beating on him, I'm debuffing him everytime he hits me, casting on him, beating on him and keeping your ass alive.

you're welcome

lol, so true.

[dkyle]

3a. If you are the party's healer, why wade into melee? The party is depending on you to keep them up and every sp you spend on DPS (or time swinging your sword) means the DPS has that many fewer sp for heals or that many more chances that you'll be swinging your sword when s*** hits the fan. By staying on the outside of the group, I rarely take much damage.

I think the outside is actually more dangerous than being next to Harry. The blades are on the outside for most of the fight.

And if I need to throw a quick heal, swinging my sword in no way interferes with that.

Usually the free CLW from capstone keeps me at full health during the fight, every now and then I may toss myself a heal if I get caught hard by a blade. Besides, with casters tossing out 2k damage in a single spell, Barbs swinging for 100+ damage on normal hits and 700+ on crits, my 40-50 DPS from DP is rather moot.

Once it ramps up, my DP is 235 DPS, before any vulnerability from my proc effect. Melee damage is probably around 150 DPS. Lantern around 30 DPS. All together, that adds up quite a bit.

[Postumus]

I pick the barb or fighter with the most HP, and center my Mass Heals on him. I cast Divine Punishment, and when the timer is at 1/2 for DP, I cast quickened Mass Heal with all my metas turned on. Hit DP again, and cast Mass Heal when the timer is at half. I may lose a monk or rogue when healing this way, but they should have brought more HPs. This is for normal shroud, of course.

So if one barb has 900 hps and the fighter next to him has 550 hps, would you still do this? Just 'tough luck buddy, shoulda brought more xps' to the fighter?

[dkyle]

So if one barb has 900 hps and the fighter next to him has 550 hps, would you still do this? Just 'tough luck buddy, shoulda brought more xps' to the fighter?

He casts Mass Heal at a regular interval, determined by the cooldown of DP. The HPs of the Barb don't matter, except that the high HP Barb is unlikely to die and thus make him lose his healing target. 550 HP should be enough to survive the interval he uses.

[Calebro]

So if one barb has 900 hps and the fighter next to him has 550 hps, would you still do this? Just 'tough luck buddy, shoulda brought more xps' to the fighter?

The point is that you target a heavy HP guy, so that your target doesn't die. You may lose a couple of low HP stragglers, but you won't lose your target. If you lose your target unexpectedly, then heals are centered on you unexpectedly, and if that happens then more people are going to die.
The 550 HPs fighter will be fine using this method.

IE: target the highest HP, heal for the low HP.... unless they're just *too* low.

v: Obviously, but if you have another player targeted then you aren't in melee, and are therefore not the best heal anchor in that case.

[LordPiglet]

I think the outside is actually more dangerous than being next to Harry. The blades are on the outside for most of the fight.

And if I need to throw a quick heal, swinging my sword in no way interferes with that.



Once it ramps up, my DP is 235 DPS, before any vulnerability from my proc effect. Melee damage is probably around 150 DPS. Lantern around 30 DPS. All together, that adds up quite a bit.

Also, the best heal anchor ever, is yourself.

You don't have to worry about losing targeting, or swapping targeting when you go to dp harry.

[sirgog]

With the new Shroud, things change a little. Mostly you now need to heal during the trash waves, and people will be split up during them, so you need to heal with single-target spells more than usual.

Mass Heal spam is still fine for the Harry phases. Assume 1.5 rounds on Normal, 2-2.5 rounds on Hard and 4-6 on Elite and budget for that. (On E that means each person soloheals a round, then repeat. Try to spend no SP when it isn't your turn. DP is not mana efficient here compared to healing).

The Gnoll phases can be brutal too now on h/e. Again the group is split.


Part 5 elite requires extreme burst healing in the event Harry lives long enough for the blades to get to him.

[LordPiglet]

He casts Mass Heal at a regular interval, determined by the cooldown of DP. The HPs of the Barb don't matter, except that the high HP Barb is unlikely to die and thus make him lose his healing target. 550 HP should be enough to survive the interval he uses.

Actually, the 900 hp barb is probably taking a ton more damage then the decently built rogue with 400 hp and evasion, or someone like my exploiter with 70ac, evasion who doesn't get double madstone because I don't get hit enough between the meteor swarms, and melee for the boots to proc. My pally takes a lot more damage then my evasion toons, even though she has a much higher reflex. Oh, and if that 900 hp barb is a low heal amp wf, then well that's even rougher.

That being said, if you can't last the 4-6 seconds between mass heals that I'm hitting everytime it's off cool down, then that's not on me.

[Cam_Neely]

just reposting this from an old thread as I think it fits well

Take this from someone that has not played a healer past lv 4 (*EDIT* now currently leveling a TRed lv8 FvS). But I want to, and have put some thought in into it.

I think the goal of a healer in shroud 4 should to have one melee die. I see that as a perfect run. Give them a little nudge to get HP up a touch, and it lets the healer know where the edge is. Once you can try to do that and succeed, then shoot for the no death runs.

Sounds like the OP is over healing, mass cures are great, but with your healing ability on a pure cleric +50% from a potencty item, it seems that mass cure mod, with well timed mass heals will get the job done for less sp.

[LordPiglet]

just reposting this from an old thread as I think it fits well

There's a very good chance, that if you died in a raid with me as the divine, it wasn't by chance.

Either you annoyed me, I felt the necessity to sacrifice someone for better loot, or I'm drunk as @!*%

#2 is mostly done in my guild runs. If I'm a pugger in your raid, #3 has a high probability.