Sarlona Pug Shrouds You got it together.

[moops]

Since the pop up of the doom threads right after the update about how groups of lvl 20s can't even finish Shroud, I decided to go out and do my own experimenting by joining random pugs on all dif kinds of alts including my 2 main healers. In these groups I never lead --and let me just say that for my normal play period ( West Coast) Sarlona has it together.

I have not been in one failed Normal Shroud run from day one of this change. These groups had all sorts of class make ups some with lvl 16s and 17s.

I know that we owe this to those that got on first and failed, and reported back about the changes AND all the Doom threads.

Many of these groups had 2 or 3 dif languages being spoken, as well as heavy lag and DCs since I run at a time a lot of Chinese players do, and they have a whole other Lag and DC issue from those of us in the US.

Sure I died in 2 of them, but I died b4 the update every now and then as well. As we like to say, Death =Large Devil Scale

I have actually found that the casual/newer player/lower HP pugs have less deaths and talk about strategy more. They might pull out way early, but does it really matter if it goes 1.25 or 1.5 rounds? This is where I see many die in the more powergamer/heavily geared type of groups, some people just refuse to change their method. The worst normal run I've seen so far was a 3 rounder and prob would've been a 3 rounder b4 update ( the sorc spent most his sp on grease, yes that kinda of group). . .no pots used tho.

I'm sure that some of you will post about your horrible Shrouds, but my wish would be that you would specify what made it horrible--was it an actual wipe? Was it Normal? Was it when it first came out or today? Was it during kiddie hours? Did the leader actually lead? Did people listen to leader? Earlier someone said that they were in a really bad run, I asked if they wiped, they said, "No, but 4 people died." I can tell you as someone who pugs shroud alot, that even before the update in some Shroud pugs 4-6 people would die in part 4 . . .I don't think some people dying accounts for a bad run.

I did the random pugging because I really wanted to get an accurate gage on if it was just a small amount of people who post alot on the forums or if it really was pugs and guilds wiping left and right with hardly any completions--I like this game, and I don't want to see people quit as it will be harder for me to fill my raid groups

Anyway, I just wanted to give props and say something positive about Sarlona. I've actually met a lot of great new players this week.

My 2 copper.

[MaximumCharisma]

You might have gotten in decent groups. I was in a mixed language group (west coast time) 2 days ago that didn't understand the concept of split and kill. So generally bad PUG's do exist, but they always have.

My main problem is the chasing blades. I can move and avoid the circular ones and whatnot, but if one of those blades comes in from behind where I am, it seems to mean death for me on either Yusif or Secondlife. Mostly it's because I lag from a combination of Chilean DSL connection, rather basic laptop computer and game lag in shroud. Secondlife has 507 hp's which for a wizard isn't bad but when a set of those moving blades gets near her, i have <2 seconds to react which just isn't enough. Maybe I'm just a slow-brained guy but I am playing Normal Shroud here; Even though we still completed once when I died, I sat there for 3 rounds waiting in the penalty box and that is just not fun.

Also, I have seen 120 point ticks of blade damage on Normal difficulty which I assume is not WAI.

[Chai]

My wizard is ungeared, level 19, first life, and ~330 HP in lich form and he does just fine.

Completions that were taking less than one round are taking ~1.5 in the ungeared PUG pool due to actually needing to pay attention, rather than run in, autoattack, and afk.

Its still comparitively much easier now than it was when it first came out.

[cdr]

I've tried about a dozen (normal, PUG) Shrouds since the change. About nine of those have wiped on p4. Not sure whether there's something special about moops or about me.

To me, it appears the wipe percent is up an order of magnitude at minimum. I stopped trying, waste of time. Nine p4 wipes is 6+ hours of gametime wasted.

[silinteresting]

as a person who only pugs(two man guild), the pugs on salona are as far as im concerned are 99% of the time awesome. i play at all different times of the day ranging from 10am to 3am uk time(yes the times are right,you can do the maths for your place of residence). i have pugged all different levels 4-20 and have only ever seen a group wipe about 5 or 6 times in the whole amount of time ive been playing(yes i no this aint long). 2 of the wipes are from the new shroud after that people soon worked out what to do thx to all the info that went around. actually thinking on this since update 12, 3 wipes 2 shroud and one in offering of blood(rage quiters not getting heals fast enough). before update 12 the only ones i remember where amrath quests. have i been extremly lucky running quests with the groups ive joined? i doubt it very much. yes we might get a death here and there(myself included) but not wipes. i just think people who were unlucky in pugs like to comon here to moan, lets be honest here if you were in a pug, group or whatever, that didnt wipe, was fun and had no drama's would you come here to tell everyone? 99% of the time you wouldn't. so a far as im concerned a big thumbs up to moops for coming here and saying well done.


your friend sil

[English_Warrior]

I agree....I've been pugging normal Shrouds pretty frequently since the update went live and out of maybe 15-25 tries I have yet to be in a group that failed to complete.

There is no doubt that deaths have been far more frequent...and the raid is certainly more frantic than before the update....and there are more frequent edge-of-the-seat moments...but I'm just not seeing the wipes that people are complaining about.

Sarlona has always had a solid Pug scene and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[Chai]

I've tried about a dozen (normal, PUG) Shrouds since the change. About nine of those have wiped on p4. Not sure whether there's something special about moops or about me.

To me, it appears the wipe percent is up an order of magnitude at minimum. I stopped trying, waste of time. Nine p4 wipes is 6+ hours of gametime wasted.

Ive seen two different types of groups this happens to.

1. People who are so set intheir ways they refuse to change their game to accomodate for changes to the quest after the update.

2. People who are so paranoid of the blades that they cant lay down enough damage to get the job done.

The good players are the ones who can take the entire environment into account, and the game is moving away from merely focusing on one aspect.

[Hinedhel]

The more I play U12 Shroud, the better my ratio of completions (100% this weekend). Plus, the last one on normal dif yielded two large devil scales: one at the final chests, and one as an end reward. Isn't U12 Shroud just awesome?

[slarden]

Shroud is definitely going better than it was the first week after U12 but I still see a lot of deaths in part IV from blades and as a result it is taking longer to take down Harry.

For my cleric that means more pots which is no problem - I have over 100 and recently was given 9 after a brutal shroud where only 2 of us survived part IV. But instead of accumulating more every week my quantity is starting to go down even with the 9 I received (I think I used 15-20 out of stubborness and not accepting failure that shroud...but we did prevail lol)

My cleric can no longer guarantee every shroud succeeds like I could in the past. It's impossible to keep people with low hp up when they are standing in blades. My cleric has run 29 shrouds with no failures - mostly PUG - but one recent shroud should have been a fail.

I usually run between 4:30am and 6:30 am ET before work and those are often multi-lingual PUGS so communication is tough, but for the most part it works out.

So yeah Sarlona defintely has a lot of good players signing up for PUG raids. But I am still seeing some serious learning curve in part IV.

[Chai]

Shroud is definitely going better than it was the first week after U12 but I still see a lot of deaths in part IV from blades and as a result it is taking longer to take down Harry.

For my cleric that means more pots which is no problem - I have over 100 and recently was given 9 after a brutal shroud where only 2 of us survived part IV. But instead of accumulating more every week my quantity is starting to go down even with the 9 I received (I think I used 15-20 out of stubborness and not accepting failure that shroud...but we did prevail lol)

My cleric can no longer guarantee every shroud succeeds like I could in the past. It's impossible to keep people with low hp up when they are standing in blades. My cleric has run 29 shrouds with no failures - mostly PUG - but one recent shroud should have been a fail.

I usually run between 4:30am and 6:30 am ET before work and those are often multi-lingual PUGS so communication is tough, but for the most part it works out.

So yeah Sarlona defintely has a lot of good players signing up for PUG raids. But I am still seeing some serious learning curve in part IV.

Shroud part 4 on normal should be a no potion fight. Theres no reason with a good strategy and people following directions that you should carry the group by guzzling their way to victory with excessive amounts of resources. 15-20 pots is ALOT for that fight.

My advice....

If its not a borderline situation where like one bauble hit and one potion is the difference between victory or defeat, let it fail. People who refuse to follow easy directions and then get carried through to completion at the expense of the healer dont learn anything other than to not play a healer.

[slarden]

Shroud part 4 on normal should be a no potion fight. Theres no reason with a good strategy and people following directions that you should carry the group by guzzling their way to victory with excessive amounts of resources. 15-20 pots is ALOT for that fight.

My advice....

If its not a borderline situation where like one bauble hit and one potion is the difference between victory or defeat, let it fail. People who refuse to follow easy directions and then get carried through to completion at the expense of the healer dont learn anything other than to not play a healer.

I know all that. When I used 15-20 pots that one time my goal wasn't to teach any lessons or save the shroud, I was just curious if we could pull it off We did (or I should say he did - really good dps...) All I did was heal and take out the gnoll healers.

[moops]

Shroud is definitely going better than it was the first week after U12 but I still see a lot of deaths in part IV from blades and as a result it is taking longer to take down Harry.

For my cleric that means more pots which is no problem - I have over 100 and recently was given 9 after a brutal shroud where only 2 of us survived part IV. But instead of accumulating more every week my quantity is starting to go down even with the 9 I received (I think I used 15-20 out of stubborness and not accepting failure that shroud...but we did prevail lol)

My cleric can no longer guarantee every shroud succeeds like I could in the past. It's impossible to keep people with low hp up when they are standing in blades. My cleric has run 29 shrouds with no failures - mostly PUG - but one recent shroud should have been a fail.

I usually run between 4:30am and 6:30 am ET before work and those are often multi-lingual PUGS so communication is tough, but for the most part it works out.

So yeah Sarlona defintely has a lot of good players signing up for PUG raids. But I am still seeing some serious learning curve in part IV.

1-A few Deaths or Harry going more than one round is not horrible, and it was like this b4 u-12. AND again, people need to pull out in the blades, esp if you have a melee heavy group.

2-You should never use pots on a Normal run unless there is some crazy fluke event that happens, especially if there are 2 healers. Healers just need to trust each other and not heal over each other the entire time. For perspective people do hard with no pots and only 2 healers. I've read that people also do elite with no pots since the update, but I do not know this firsthand. Like Chai says, very good advice.

I don't know how long you've been healing so sorry if you already know this, never throw your masses around the squishiest person--that person could be a 250 HP rogue or it could be a 800 hp barb--I have lost plenty of 800hp barbs in Shroud, I'd rather just raise them at the end then use a pot. Work out healing again like we used to, ie who is healing first. Ask for couldkill if you don't see one, it does cut quite a bit of damage.

Death in part 4 is not that bad, it's the pugs that take 10 mins to decided to hit the altar.

*****
Funny thing, my guild did an eDeeps with one pug yesterday, we messed the 2nd hallway up and wiped-- something that happens to us every now and then--we switched to other alts while someone saved the instance, the pug left. Meanwhile we came back in and handled the room so fast we all felt foolish for dying the last attempt.

They amped up the Cold damage in this room months back--The first time we did it after that update, boy, were we surprised. But We didn't come to the forums and complain and ask them to reduce it, we went right back in and worked on a better strategy. eDeeps is constantly pugged on Sarlona, and one could argue that this change messed up one of the most popular quests in the game that everyone needs to do to upgrade their gear--of course there are alternative options just like there are for the shroud.

Why we still mess this room up sometimes? Because we don't always bring people who are used to using or have the kinds of spells that room needs, or people who have not done that quest much--or sometimes just plain cockiness

Our guild might do things weird ways sometimes, when there seems there is a better option, but often times we are testing things out, so that we can adjust to anything that comes along.

Yesterday I did lead a shroud, I told everyone to bring who they wanted which turned out to be a lot of casters and divines, and then I put up the LFM for the remaining spots for any class, and took another caster and cleric, the last spot was filled by a barb, and the last Cleric to join said, "Thank God, DPS." We all chuckled backchannel. It was a half rounder, I'm sure it was all the barb This illustrates that some people just don't take the time to learn the games mechanics and other ways to do things.

[hermespan]

as a person who only pugs(two man guild), the pugs on salona are as far as im concerned are 99% of the time awesome. i play at all different times of the day ranging from 10am to 3am uk time(yes the times are right,you can do the maths for your place of residence). i have pugged all different levels 4-20 and have only ever seen a group wipe about 5 or 6 times in the whole amount of time ive been playing(yes i no this aint long). 2 of the wipes are from the new shroud after that people soon worked out what to do thx to all the info that went around. actually thinking on this since update 12, 3 wipes 2 shroud and one in offering of blood(rage quiters not getting heals fast enough). before update 12 the only ones i remember where amrath quests. have i been extremly lucky running quests with the groups ive joined? i doubt it very much. yes we might get a death here and there(myself included) but not wipes. i just think people who were unlucky in pugs like to comon here to moan, lets be honest here if you were in a pug, group or whatever, that didnt wipe, was fun and had no drama's would you come here to tell everyone? 99% of the time you wouldn't. so a far as im concerned a big thumbs up to moops for coming here and saying well done.


your friend sil

I'd say it's closer to 85% and I don't pug tod any more. Too much loot drama... I'd rather run it with people that do the right thing.

[slarden]

That is certainly good advice moops, but each raid is different and in the raid I described the other healer died . I can solo heal but once everyone starts jumping out of blades it can get very chaotic especially when the non-melee start getting bombs thrown at them the same time the melee are getting chopped up by the blades.

It's all fun and I use pots more than I probably should, but I haven't had to buy any at the AH yet.

[Aeolwind]

--or sometimes just plain cockiness

lol, I play mainly in a static group and this is doom. All of us, standing on the boat, complaining, beating the dummy.

That is certainly good advice moops, but each raid is different and in the raid I described the other healer died . I can solo heal but once everyone starts jumping out of blades it can get very chaotic especially when the non-melee start getting bombs thrown at them the same time the melee are getting chopped up by the blades.

It's all fun and I use pots more than I probably should, but I haven't had to buy any at the AH yet.

I do the same thing in Shroud on my cleric before the change. I wanted my ingredients and I wasn't leaving the healer I'd never met to chance.

[Quikster]

So after all the glasses of wine tonight the op was a bit tldr. Rep on the first part, and because I cant rep you on a recent fb post (stalker)

Hope things are well in game, i might actually get to start logging in soon, and if you can keep me interested Ill log in for more than a few nights