KrazyTank 12 Monk / 6 Rgr / 2 Fighter tank with range for u12 and beyond

[crazydamage]

Last edited Nov 21, 2011.
Main thing I need help with is what intimidate enhancements/gear will I need to reach useful intimidate
Looking for input on my ideas/gear below. I will be revising this build until I am satisfied, and then I will TR into it
Have edited build to 12 monk / 6 fighter / 2 ranger ; dropping manyshot to pickup stalwart defender I as it was pointed out to me that Ninja spy I requires dodge, and hence stalwart I requires only the extra enhancements to pickup.

Just brainstorming ideas for this build which is based on 2 key premises:
1. Until Turbine decides that stunning fist DC is based on MONK lvl and not total character lvl, we will continue to abuse abuse abuse 12 Monk / X / X splits gaining both improved evasion and barbarian-like HP along with full monk DC stuns/improved evasion/3 high saves.
2. U12 Earth Stance which is very ultimate despite being only the lvl 12 version:
+55% Threat generation (***!), 15% DR and +3 Con.
(lvl 18 monk only gains you +70% threat and 20% DR, minimal gains imo).

Starting stats (36 pt) HUMAN

16 Str (10)
14 Dex (6) (requires +3 tome)
14 Wis (6)
12 Int (4)
16 Con (10)
8 Cha (0)

alternatively:
16 Str (10)
15 Dex (8)
14 Wis (6)
10 Int (2)
16 Con (10)
8 Cha (0)

All upgrades to Wis (boosting stun DC and ranged to hit).

Feats:
15 total feats (4 fighter [1,2,4,6], 3 monk [1,2,6], 7 general and 1 human) + TWF free (rgr2):

Therefore:
Dodge, ITWF, GTWF, IC Blunt, Stunning Fist, Zen Archery (6 feats).
9 X Toughness (could swap out 1 toughness for PA but i'm not sure how easy it will be to hit things in harder epics like epic LOB/elite abbot etc).

Skills (4 + 1 human = 5 per lvl):
Balance - Max
Concentration - Max
Intimidate (?) - not sure if will be able to reach useful intimidate without heavily swapping gear.
Jump - Max
Rest in UMD/Haggle etc.

Enhancements:
All Prereq's for lvl 12 Earth stance
All prereqs + Ninja Spy I
All prereqs + Stalwart I
Human stat upgrades
Fighter haste boost
Various intimidate Enhancements. (?)
Rgr sprint Boost I

Rest of points split between healing amp/toughness/Con.

The idea here is to get an absolutely ridiculous amount of healing amp/HP + improved evasion. Hence 9 X toughness and Monk/human healing amps along with racial/class toughness.

Gear
Preliminary gear setup
Head = Epic red dragon helm
Goggles = epic ravens sight
Armor = epic red dragon robe with 6 dex
Necklace/Ring1 = Kyosho's with 20% Amp /+2 Str / holy Burst
Belt / Ring2 = Encrusted with 20% Amp /2 Str / Holy Burst
Gloves/Bracers = Epic Claw
Trinket = Epic bloodstone / Litany
Cloak = Wretched Twighlight with upgrade to Sneak attack +5 when turbine patches
Boots = GS HP / XX
Quiver = upgraded abbot quiver.
Wraps = Silver/Air/Air/X slotted with +1 for EVERYTHING (epic trash/all raids) except:
hotswap to mabar wraps for abbot/undead
hotswap to adamantine/holy burst GCB for LOB.
hotswap to cold iron/holy burst/ GB for DQ

[voodoogroves]

The difference between Fighter 6 and Ranger 6 is a bit more than that.

Ranger 6
- gives bow options, including Manyshot, and makes for a solid archer option for half/elves.
- Ram's Might
- Minor blue-bar capability, which could fuel AA
- extra DEX enhancement

Fighter 6
- More haste boost
- Option for Stalwart Defender 1, stacking hate, HP, STR, CON
- extra STR enhancement

I think the Fighter 6 builds are more tanky-ish, while the Ranger builds are more rounded and give the option for a multi-threat.

[crazydamage]

moved to 1st post

[Hurak]

Had 12m/6Ranger/2Fighter and changed it to 12M/8F, makes a great epic runner and solid tank. Why the change? Wanted to increase base damage to all targets, not just 2 FE groups, more hp through enhancements and spare toughness feats (currently 650ish in earth), faster boosts and kensai added another +1dc to stunning (more stuns!). Found for epics at least, ranged was/still is mediocre and used too many enhancement points and feats, didn't justify the cost. Past Life Monk works well with this build.

edit: Gear wise, gear looks good. Maybe make a +3 nat armor trinket of melee alacrity for boss beat down.

[maddmatt70]

The main problem with 12 monk 6 ranger 2 fighter is you will not be able to get your intimidate high enough for epic lob. 12 fighter 7 monk 1 wizard or 12 monk 7 fighter 1 wizard are better for this reason in terms of being a ranged tank because you can get your intimidate high enough and be an AA. You could forgo the AA and go with 12 monk 6 fighter 2 ranger I suppose..

[RedDragonScale]

I would never put HP item in Boot slot because of ToD boots.

But that's just me though.

[Droken]

Go Half Elf instead of Human. You would qualify for Arcane Archer and gain Slayer Arrows at the cost of the prequalifying feats. I'd also recommend Point Blank Shot for any bow build.

Intimidate has nothing to do with the number of fighter levels you take, by the way, besides for the few points of enhancements you could ~choose~ to take. So long as you have a single level of fighter, you can get full ranks by just spending twice the points. My fighter splash builds have 23 max ranks by level 20, which is the same as a 20th level fighter would have.

Don't forget about 10 thousand stars for enhancements. Works with bows as long as you have Zen Archery, which you already plan on taking. Your earth stance also works with your bow, increasing the crit mod on natural rolls of 19 or 20, so I'd suggest taking improved critical: range.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Moar HPs?!

Dodge for Ninja-Spy I gives Shadow Fade for 25% incorporeality which is worth way way more than another toughness feat.

Power Attack might not be useful all the time but it will definitely be useful most of the time (bit of a disservice to your party to beat on portals in shroud without power attack for starters and it only gets worse from there).

Once you've taken dodge it only costs 1 more feat for SD (if going fighter) or 2 more feats for Tempest I (if going ranger). Tempest doesn't bring as much to a tanking build but it is still a solid 5%+ DPS increase. SD on the other hand gives +10% HP which is definitely worth the 1 feat it costs you and will do much more for your HP (and general defense) than what a toughness does. Furthermore, SD will help hate generation considerably as well.

The second list of stats doesn't look right. 10 constitution?

Go Half Elf instead of Human. You would qualify for Arcane Archer and gain Slayer Arrows at the cost of the prequalifying feats. I'd also recommend Point Blank Shot for any bow build.

Intimidate has nothing to do with the number of fighter levels you take, by the way, besides for the few points of enhancements you could ~choose~ to take. So long as you have a single level of fighter, you can get full ranks by just spending twice the points. My fighter splash builds have 23 max ranks by level 20, which is the same as a 20th level fighter would have.

Don't forget about 10 thousand stars for enhancements. Works with bows as long as you have Zen Archery, which you already plan on taking. Your earth stance also works with your bow, increasing the crit mod on natural rolls of 19 or 20, so I'd suggest taking improved critical: range.

Intimidate enhancements cost 1 point per rank so give very nice, cheap access to up to +4 intimidate which can help builds to push over the 80 needed for some specific raids (DQ, Hound, LoB I think are the main difficult ones).

[crazydamage]

The main problem with 12 monk 6 ranger 2 fighter is you will not be able to get your intimidate high enough for epic lob. 12 fighter 7 monk 1 wizard or 12 monk 7 fighter 1 wizard are better for this reason in terms of being a ranged tank because you can get your intimidate high enough and be an AA. You could forgo the AA and go with 12 monk 6 fighter 2 ranger I suppose..

I was thinking of skipping intimidate completely. Its easy to put max skill ranks in intimidate, but without hotswapping gear it will be impossible to reach a useful intimidate.

With this build I'm more thinking that it will be useful to just pull LOB with range and then maintain aggro with pure threat 55% earth stance + 20% claw.
I think improved evasion is incredibly underrated in epic LOB (Save vs his comet fall + BB"s if he happens to knock you through a BB).

I think it's a tradeoff between intimidate vs. improved evasion.
Arguably a Paladin18/2monk defender of siberys or 20 stalwart high AC/HP + intimidate vs.
this build, high HP/good DR/imp evasion/better heal amp/enough range dmg to be useful in ranged situations.

This monk build likely performs better as a Chrono tank as well due to imp evasion.
I guess it depends what content they release in the future as to whether AC or Imp evasion will be more useful.

[crazydamage]

Moar HPs?!

Dodge for Ninja-Spy I gives Shadow Fade for 25% incorporeality which is worth way way more than another toughness feat.

Power Attack might not be useful all the time but it will definitely be useful most of the time (bit of a disservice to your party to beat on portals in shroud without power attack for starters and it only gets worse from there).

Once you've taken dodge it only costs 1 more feat for SD (if going fighter) or 2 more feats for Tempest I (if going ranger). Tempest doesn't bring as much to a tanking build but it is still a solid 5%+ DPS increase. SD on the other hand gives +10% HP which is definitely worth the 1 feat it costs you and will do much more for your HP (and general defense) than what a toughness does. Furthermore, SD will help hate generation considerably as well.

The second list of stats doesn't look right. 10 constitution?





Intimidate enhancements cost 1 point per rank so give very nice, cheap access to up to +4 intimidate which can help builds to push over the 80 needed for some specific raids (DQ, Hound, LoB I think are the main difficult ones).

Ahh thanks, I didnt realize that Ninja spy I Required dodge.
That kind of makes me think that 12 Monk / 6 fighter / 2 Rgr might be better although I would lose manyshot.

[Droken]

You realize AC and evasion have nothing to do with one another, right? You could totally have both... My AC tank is a 12 monk splash. 98 self buffed AC. I was just offering some suggestions as to your archery route.

[crazydamage]

You realize AC and evasion have nothing to do with one another, right? You could totally have both... My AC tank is a 12 monk splash. 98 self buffed AC. I was just offering some suggestions as to your archery route.

Yep. The only problem I have with AC is that I dislike farming AC gear, and also that AC will likely require intimidate to maintain aggro, whereas this build focuses on 3 things:
HP + Heal Amp + Threat.

[grodon9999]

Yep. The only problem I have with AC is that I dislike farming AC gear, and also that AC will likely require intimidate to maintain aggro, whereas this build focuses on 3 things:
HP + Heal Amp + Threat.

Wrong.

You almost have to try to not have AC on a monk-splashed tank, you can break 80 with complete ghetto-gear.

[maddmatt70]

I was thinking of skipping intimidate completely. Its easy to put max skill ranks in intimidate, but without hotswapping gear it will be impossible to reach a useful intimidate.

With this build I'm more thinking that it will be useful to just pull LOB with range and then maintain aggro with pure threat 55% earth stance + 20% claw.
I think improved evasion is incredibly underrated in epic LOB (Save vs his comet fall + BB"s if he happens to knock you through a BB).

I think it's a tradeoff between intimidate vs. improved evasion.
Arguably a Paladin18/2monk defender of siberys or 20 stalwart high AC/HP + intimidate vs.
this build, high HP/good DR/imp evasion/better heal amp/enough range dmg to be useful in ranged situations.

This monk build likely performs better as a Chrono tank as well due to imp evasion.
I guess it depends what content they release in the future as to whether AC or Imp evasion will be more useful.

Oh intimidate is extremely useful in epic lob. When aggro swaps intimidate can re get the target or just if somebody hits the lob when they should not intimidate can be a lifesaver for the other character. Really I would not build a true melee tank without intimidate for epic lob. Now I am a little uncertain how that plays out with ranged, but I have a feeling it will be similiar; hence, I feel it is essential.

I do not think improved evasion helps the main tank in lob. Where improved evasion would be nice is on a healer of all things. The main tank does not tend to get cometfalled its targets away from the main tank. A cometfall on the healers at the wrong moment can be horrible, but with improved evasion life just got way better for those healers - I like 18 cleric 2 monk with a fairly decent amount of resources put into reflex saves of course that means no capstone which has some other implications.

[crazydamage]

Oh intimidate is extremely useful in epic lob. When aggro swaps intimidate can re get the target or just if somebody hits the lob when they should not intimidate can be a lifesaver for the other character. Really I would not build a true melee tank without intimidate for epic lob. Now I am a little uncertain how that plays out with ranged, but I have a feeling it will be similiar; hence, I feel it is essential.

I do not think improved evasion helps the main tank in lob. Where improved evasion would be nice is on a healer of all things. The main tank does not tend to get cometfalled its targets away from the main tank. A cometfall on the healers at the wrong moment can be horrible, but with improved evasion life just got way better for those healers - I like 18 cleric 2 monk with a fairly decent amount of resources put into reflex saves of course that means no capstone which has some other implications.

Not having built an intimidate tank before, how do you hit relevant intimidate besides the 23 base ranks intim. I'm guessing enhancements / +15 item / cha item and shroud CHA skills item?
What other things am I missing, if someone could break it down that would be great.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Not having built an intimidate tank before, how do you hit relevant intimidate besides the 23 base ranks intim. I'm guessing enhancements / +15 item / cha item and shroud CHA skills item?
What other things am I missing, if someone could break it down that would be great.

+5 enhancement from eclaw gloves, +20 item (brawns spirits updated I think), charisma buffs, GH, good luck +2, enhancements, fighter/barb PL's, outside buffs (bard, monk) etc.

I once figured out that I could get 80 intimidate on a pure monk with 8 starting charisma. Shouldn't be too hard for you. 6 fighter will help a lot.