Cleric intimitank - viable?

[Petrovskis]

I was looking for a different build to the standard hate or intimitanks going around and came up with this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 12 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 759 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 27
Reflex: 21
Will: 24

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    14
Dexterity            12                    15
Constitution         16                    19
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               14                    18
Charisma             16                    26

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    14
Bluff                 3                     8
Concentration         5                    30
Diplomacy             3                     8
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                3                     8
Heal                  2                     6
Hide                  1                     2
Intimidate            7                    39
Jump                  5                     6
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         1                     2
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  6                     8
Swim                  5                     6
Tumble                5                     6
Use Magic Device      7                    12


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I

I have several concerns/questions:

1. is ~500 hp enough for this type of character? quickened heals with significant healing am and aura will help, but i know disintegrates hit for 400-500 hp - what HP should I target as minumum?
2. What intimidate is enough? this char will hit 64 standing intim, with 70 raid buffed and 75 with boost.
3. I've gone for guard spec with DR, using salt, distingrate, water and air guards as primary DPS (due to shield blocking) - is this really enough to warrant the effort?

Anyway, looking for comments/thoughts as to raid/epic compatibility of this character and any ways to improve, by particular gear combinations or class/race changes.

Petrov

[Kmnh]

This isn't anywhere close to being viable. If all the stars align and your playstyle somehow works, you are still not a good cleric and not a good tank.

A pure level 20 cleric would make a much better tank than this. A pure level 20 favored soul would be even better, and it is a fairly common build.

[Memek]

You cannot intimi lock anymore. You must DPS.

And these days you cant throw a rock without hitting a shjeeld so the last thing the servers need is yet another tank who cant kill.

[Petrovskis]

Meh - ok - thanks for the info. Another fun looking build to the scrap heap!

[Kmnh]

Meh - ok - thanks for the info. Another fun looking build to the scrap heap!

Wow. You responded to build criticism without personal attacks or inflammatory comments. This is so rare in these forums that I'm giving you a +1

[Petrovskis]

Hehe thanks.

I did ask the question and therefore had to be prepared for the inevitable respsonse of "no", which was what i thought...but i had to ask!

[PNellesen]

Wow. You responded to build criticism without personal attacks or inflammatory comments. This is so rare in these forums that I'm giving you a +1

Same. Need to encourage that sort of thing

[Lifespawn]

18 cleric 2 rogue is still viable using dots+intim shield mastery for extra hate human being the best choice quicken emp healing toughnesses and radiant servant can make for good hp and excellent self healing with some amp and aura allowing you to dps with dots and heal with bursts.

Cleric hound shield for the dr guards torc conc op item and you can tank forever.


It's still very possible but requires quite a bit of work/gear.

[unbongwah]

You may be able to salvage this idea as a melee-specced build instead, who can also use light spells (which have no saves) & Blade Barrier (which will still do some dmg to mobs w/out Evasion even with low saves) for added DPS & threat. You still won't be optimal and you probably won't be popular (as people will expect you to be a healer not a tank); but if the goal is to come up with something challenging and off-the-wall, well, mission accomplished.

Here's a very rough draft of my idea:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(6 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 12 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 339
Spell Points: 595 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 17
Will: 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            14                    16
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence         10                    12
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             14                    16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    14
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         7                    31
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     3
Heal                 -1                     3
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            6                    26
Jump                  3                     7
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     1
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                3                     4
Use Magic Device      3                    14

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword (can be swapped for Least DM of Sentinel if & when you have epic Chimera's Fang)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+3)


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+6)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III

Stats: you could drop DEX a little for, say, more INT or WIS; alternatively, you could dump INT, give up UMD, bump DEX to 15, and switch to TWF instead (in which case I'd take khopesh instead of b.sword).

Feats are really tight on this build. Ideally you have:

• Melee: THF x3, Power Atk, Imp Crit Slash, b.sword or d.axe prof.
• Survivability: at least one Toughness and one or more shield feats
• Metas: Emp Heal, Maximize, Quicken, and Emp (roughly in that order)

Unfortunately, that's 12-14 feats on a build which only gets 10 - and that's after I gave up on the Sentinel line right off the bat. I winnowed it down to THF x3, PA, b.sword, Toughness, Shield Mastery, Emp Heal, Max, and Quik. But there's certainly wiggle room here: e.g., drop b.sword & THF feats for IC Slash, Emp, and the other two shield feats.

Monk 2 vs ftr 2: both provide 2 extra feats; monk provides Evasion, extra class skills (namely Balance), a few more skill pts, & higher Reflex & Will saves (the WIS AC bonus is moot since you'll be using shields for tanking); ftr provides a few more HPs, +1 STR enh, tower shield prof., and Haste Boost I. In the end, I thought Evasion & higher saves would be more useful (11 ranks of Balance help too), but it could go either way. [Although if you don't have monk unlocked, that simplifies your choice...]

Enhs also wind up tight; I can't decide if I should drop, say, Versatility and/or Smiting for Imp Recovery III or max W&S Mastery. Fortunately, enhs are always easy enough to tweak.

Skills: I managed to work in max Concentration & Intim plus 11 ranks of Balance & UMD. Had to stagger out my levels in kind of an odd fashion to squeeze out my skill pts as much as I could, though, which makes it weird-looking and backloaded.

SPs will clearly be an issue; I definitely wouldn't do this without SP regen gear (i.e., Raiyum Torc and Con Opp GS item), preferably obtained before TRing.

Gameplay: essentially I see this build playing like a conventional battle-cleric most of the time, but with extra hate generation options. For melee DPS, use a Carnifex for the first 12 levels or so, Min2 falchion after that; for tanking you use whatever's the best heavy shield & b.sword you've got. EDIT: epic Swashbuckler + epic Duelist Leather might be a good combo that's relatively easy to farm up.

[Petrovskis]

Thanks unbongwah, your sumation was what i was attempting to mix the healing use of radiant aura with sufficient agro generation to enable tanking to happen.

I think it needs some more thought/planning and as you say, gathering of essential gear prior to TR. If i build this (unlikely, but hey, i might be crazy enough) it'll be a 36 point with fighter and rogue past lives.

Anyhow, thanks for the input.

Petrov