DPS Bard, Human 15/4/1 or Halfling 15/3/2?

[RoelHeeswijk]

Once upon a time life was good. I was going to roll a 14/4/2 bard/rogue/fighter and i would have been a happy halfling. (I was thinking about going human instead and get oversized TWF, but probably not since i don't really need it)
But then I did some more raiding, lord of blades and hard tods, after the update, and I realized I do want my 15th bard level to get the +4 AC song

So I need to drop either my 2nd fighter level (free feat) or my 4th rogue level (haste boost II, 10% threat reduction, 3 sneak damage) for that.
I don't like to do either, but for raiding I think it's better, so I worked out the possibilities.

When missing the 2nd fighter level I'd either have to drop khopesh specialization and get a -4 tohit or go human... so I worked that one out as a human, gaining all the humanly benefits like healing amp.

When missing the 4th rogue I'm free to go halfling and get the halfling damage enhancements to make up for the damage loss, better reflex saves, and heroes companion IV for the main tank while raiding.

  Halfling (2 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Bard) 
Hit Points: 320
Spell Points: 448 
Fortitude: 15 // Reflex: 20 // Will: 11

                 Feat/Enhancement
Abilities         Modified Stats
(36 Point)          (Level 20)
Strength                17  -2race+5level+3tome+1fighter = 24
Dexterity               14  +2race+4tome+1enh                 = 21
Constitution            18  +3tome                       = 21
Intelligence            9  +3tome                        = 12
Wisdom                  8  +3tome                        = 11
Charisma                8  +3tome                       = 11

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion IV
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I

OR

  Human (1 Fighter \ 4 Rogue \ 15 Bard) 
Hit Points: 336
Spell Points: 468 
Fortitude: 13 // Reflex: 18 // Will: 10

                 Feat/Enhancement
Abilities         Modified Stats
(36 Point)          (Level 20)
Strength                17  +5level+3tome+1human = 26
Dexterity               16  +4tome +1enh         = 21
Constitution            17  +3tome +1human       = 21
Intelligence            9  +3tome                = 12
Wisdom                  8  +3tome                = 11
Charisma                8  +3tome               = 11

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I

Differences:

Damage:
Halflingfighter: +3 sneak tohit // +3 sneak damage
Humanrogue: +1 damage // haste boost II // subtle backstabbing 10%

Survive:
Halflingfighter: +3 reflex save (+2 fort, +1 will), making generally buffed reflex 39 instead of 36
Humanrogue: +16 HP // 30% base amp

Convenience:
Halflingfighter: Heroes Companion IV
Humanrogue: 20 SP // WarchanterII songs // Uncanny Dodge // 18 balance, 21 jump (instead of 4 balance, 4 jump)

Other:
Halflingfighter: oooh looks like a tiny cute halfling
Humanrogue: no really, these differences are all that matter to me, things like -2 STR for halflings and the free human feat are already taken into account


Does anyone have advice on which to roll? Got all my gear, got my 20th completions done, all +3 tomes and a +4 dex ready, so i'm about to TR but suddenly unsure what to do.

The gear I will be wearing most of the time:

helmet:     PirateEvent         Sneak5      perform15
necklace:   eTorq               Wizardry6   Torq          CON1
leftring:   Stalker             ExcSneak3 Seeker6     WIS6
belt:       TODravager          CON6        seeker2
rightring:  TODravager          STR6        STR1        STR2
trinket:    Litany              stats+1
cloak:      eEnvenomed          CON7        GoodLuck    resistance5
gloves      eChargedGauntlet    STR6        20d6shock  CHA6
bracers     GS-HP-MinII         45HP        FORT
goggle      GS-SP-Airguard      Wizardry6   150SP       +6CHAskills
                swapping to +4 to-hit cannith goggles after buffing
boots       eCorrosion          DEX6        Toughness   disin. guard
Armor       DT*                 FL30        20%amp      Destruction

STR +12 // DEX +7 // CON +9 // WIS +7 // CHA +7 (making the odd naked con/dex/wis/cha even)

ravagerSet+Torq => shintaoSet+Spare Hand when stuff is immune to ravager

[Valindria]

Out of the two I like 2 fighter better.

Have you thought about 16/2/2? Less rogue but you'd gain OID and one other (heros feast or mass cure or whatever).

I'd probably do 16/2/2 and human. Actually I would probably go pure bard and virtuoso (aka the virt in my sig)

[RoelHeeswijk]

Out of the two I like 2 fighter better.

Have you thought about 16/2/2? Less rogue but you'd gain OID and one other (heros feast or mass cure or whatever).

I'd probably do 16/2/2 and human. Actually I would probably go pure bard and virtuoso (aka the virt in my sig)

I don't have any spell pen, and don't solo much anyway, so the OID I can do without. not worth losing 1d6 sneak damage for I think. and 16/2/2 and human doesn't feel right anyway, when you're human you don't need the feat from second fighter that much.

[jeremyt]

I don't have any spell pen, and don't solo much anyway, so the OID I can do without. not worth losing 1d6 sneak damage for I think. and 16/2/2 and human doesn't feel right anyway, when you're human you don't need the feat from second fighter that much.

a extra feat will always go a long way for a melee bard (IMO)

16/2/2 human with some heal amp is more of a solo friendly build due to the high self healing efficiency, BUT you will find being able to reliably stop any single mob that lacks spell resist is EXTREMELY useful in almost every quest, raid, shortman, solo or 6 man epics. Just have to pick your targets and know what has SR and what does not.

[RoelHeeswijk]

16/2/2 or 15/3/2 doesn't make much difference for me, 3.5 sneak damage or OID, the tradeoff is not as complex and can be easily done with a LR.
But both 16/2/2 human and 15/3/2 human doesn't attract me. Missing out on both going halfling and on going 4rogue just cuts down the damage output too much.

For me, the main question between human&4rogue or halfling&not4rogue remains. Compare 15/4/1 human with 16/2/2 halfling if you like.

[Partydeluxe]

Differences:

Damage:
halfling 15/3/2 fighter: +4 sneak tohit // +5 sneak damage
human 15/4/1 rogue: +1 damage // +1 flanking tohit // haste boost II // subtle backstabbing 10%

Survive:
Halflingfighter: +3 reflex save (+2 fort, +1 will), making generally buffed reflex 38 instead of 35
Humanrogue: +16 HP // 30% base amp // Song magic II and III

Convenience:
Halflingfighter: Heroes Companion IV
Humanrogue: 20 SP // WarchanterII (Recklessness + GH songs) // +1 skill point/level // Uncanny Dodge

Other:
Halfling: oooh looks like a tiny cute halfling
Human: no really, these differences are all that matter to me, things like -2 STR for halflings and the free human feat are already taken into account

I'd say +5 SA damage is only slighty better than +1 permanent damage. How many sneak attacks do you get off nowadays anyway? Yes sure it's a little bit better but with human haste II added the difference is nowhere near great enough on it's own to justify halfling.

That leaves:

+ Moar HPs
+ Way more self-healing (30% amp + 20% song magic)
+ 5% doublestrike song
vs
+ 3 reflex

And suddenly it's an easy choice


ps. for those occasions where you do need a higher reflex you could make a +10 reflex Fleshshaper's Docent
- Edit on second thought, humans have a heart which would probably make placing that docent somewhat difficult..ah well.
ps2. did you take into account the 10hp from WCII as well?

[RoelHeeswijk]

I'd say +5 SA damage is only slighty better than +1 permanent damage. How many sneak attacks do you get off nowadays anyway? Yes sure it's a little bit better but with human haste II added the difference is nowhere near great enough on it's own to justify halfling.

That leaves:

+ Moar HPs
+ Way more self-healing (30% amp + 20% song magic)
+ 5% doublestrike song
vs
+ 3 reflex

And suddenly it's an easy choice


ps. for those occasions where you do need a higher reflex you could make a +10 reflex Fleshshaper's Docent
- Edit on second thought, humans have a heart which would probably make placing that docent somewhat difficult..ah well.
ps2. did you take into account the 10hp from WCII as well?

but but but heroes companion! Would have been so much fun

(and yeah, the warchanter hp was calculated in:
humanrogue: 6hp rogue + 10hp warchanter + 10 hp racial III = 26 HP
halflingfighter 10 hp fighter = 10HP
so 16 difference)

I guess 15/4/1 it is. Only thing is that i'll probably drop song magic III and 4 CHA for the last 2 CON and human versatility I (+2 skills for traps)

[Partydeluxe]

You might not be a real bard, not caring about bard songs or making peeps dance and whatnot but wait....; once he can make the big tanky boys his little Hero's Companion biatch, suddenly those pointy ears come straight up!

Maybe better to gimp yourself with -20inch after all XD


btw; who cares about cha anyway..last life you weren't even able to cast anything over level 2 spells until level 12 or something; Cha was invented for cocky elfs and Elton John