I hate UMD. I love UMD. I hate UMD.

[wax_on_wax_off]

So I've been a proponent of UMD since I found the forums for the first time way back when and realised that in DDO you can put cross class skills in it (while in pnp you'd have to splash rogue or bard (or artificer) to invest in it).

Since then I've maxed out UMD on just about every character that I've made (90%+), even if the most use that I got out of it on the particular character might have been to once bypass a racial restriction on an item (on account of not capping the character for favour reasons).

I love UMD. It has so many amazing uses across a wide array of possible UMD scores. Some examples:
1. Invisibility scrolls. OMG, most OP ability ever to be able to go invisible. Anyone can get enough UMD for this and it is undoubtedly the best use of UMD.
2. Fireshield scrolls. Whether tanking shadows in ToD, laughing in Harry's face or doing a base in ev6 being able to pop off one of these scrolls will definitely save your life once or twice.
3. Raise Dead scrolls. No good when the only healer dies and everyone stands around looking dumb. Even if you can only manage ~30% success it is still enough and worthwhile to be able to get a healer up when it comes to "the crunch".
4. Cure Wands. Better and cheaper than pots.
5. Heal scrolls. This is why we come right?
6. Teleport scrolls. I'm rich and lazy, aren't you?
7. Dimension Door scrolls. Being able to make a hasty exit can certainly save some quests/raids.
8. Resurrection scrolls. When raise dead just won't cut it (like in many raids with AoE damage).
9. Displacement scrolls. Cut incoming damage by 50% for 30 seconds. Need I say more?
10. Alignment restricted items. 20 for most, easy to achieve, great way to use particular randomly generated items.
11. Race restricted items. See above.
12. Artificer scrolls. Wow (though I haven't played a character that could utilise them lately).
13. And many more ...

Now, to the actual reason for this post.

I've had 2 characters on the go of late, a palemaster wizard and a human sorcerer. I prefer the wizard as it is stimulating and challenging to play a character that is capable of so much (restrictive SP pool notwithstanding). I've had fun tanking shadows in a hard ToD, leading various tough raids, tanking various bosses (including epic Turigulon) and generally relishing any opportunity to push my abilities when those Oh ****! moments happen and someone needs to fix things.

Then there's my sorcerer. He's got a slightly messed up spell list and less than optimal stats but he's still pretty fun to play. I stand in the back cycling through my SLA's generally trying to avoid aggro or kiting mobs back through the melees if I get it and passing buffs as necessary. It's a nice lazy character to play that doesn't make me think too much.

However, a guildy has gently bullied me into actually trying to play my sorcerer to it's potential be getting enough UMD to reliably fire off heal scrolls by forcing large mats on me. Why couldn't I just keep on being a lazy freeloader?

(Some literary license here for dramatic effect, <3 you guys)

So I can empathise now a bit with players who choose to intentionally gimp their characters by skipping UMD. It's easy to just say that you do A or B but not C to Z; in fact, you do A or B so well that you don't need to do any of C to Z and you should be my ***** and do them for me. Even though the hardest thing you would have to do to do a majority of C to Z is having to swap a few items occasionally. It's nice to be lazy (I mean, it's nice to play my role).

Not sure if this applies to anyone anymore, just reminded of a few people that I've run across from time to time.

Conclusion? No idea.

/rant off

[Orratti]

I like it on the toons I have that use it. Those toons have backpack slots full of scrolls, items and pots that can help out tremendously in soloing, raising clerics and healing party members.

I like not having it on the toons I don't have it on. I have more space for loot and can use those skill points for other things I use more often. Rarely do I need any umd for RR items as I don't use RR items for other races. I can wait the couple of levels to use the same item that is open to any race. I don't like popping off heal scrolls at 30% chance. If I'm going to be using other classes spell abilities I want no fail or 85% or better so I'm changing items, drinking this pot, to activate this scroll, to activate this scroll, to finally cast this scroll. It does take a little study and practice and like just about any good skill it takes practice to learn what items help the skill and how to build for it to get the most out of it.

I like that you put a list of things that you like using umd for here's my personal list

Shield wands esp lvl 10- clickys are great these wands 10x better
Raise dead
heal
gh scrolls- need those to up the umd and gh always nice to have on anyway
fireball wands-I call these bard grenades
Protection from energy

There may be more I can't remember. I would love to find a vendor that had deathward scrolls out there but pretty sure there isn't one. Were I not completely sickened by the 1st mabar event I would have played the last one for nothing more than the pots that gave deathward. The items in there weren't worth the farm to me anymore.

It's a short list to be sure becaue I'm a minimalist in playstyle. Don't read lazy into that. I do carry all the pots etc I need to be as self sufficient as possible. In most cases it allows me to use my controller setup to it's best abilities giving me quick access to whatever I need while staying in mouselook. In some cases it will slow me down a little as I need to go into inv to get what I need to use but then my inv is very well organized for that reason.

In your list fireshield scrolls are something I might want to start using.

Dimension door scrolls- I would absolutely use but I believe they can't be bought from vendor anymore. If that is incorrect please tell me where I can find that vendor because I would love to stock up. Not going to ah to get them though.

Invis-comes in pots. Good enough for me. I can understand the scroll use though.

Teleport scrolls- not that lazy, rather have an open inv slot

displacement- 30 sec not long enough to me I'd rather go for an ac option or hps and heal scrolls or dragonmark and have another open inv space.

alignment/rr items- not worth umd if this is all you're going to achieve from it imo. A bonus if your going for high umd.

Artificer scrolls-good lord why bother. Have you seen the umd on those things? Carazy!
Adding metal or alignment to a weapon yeah that would be nice. I need to play an artificer before I can decide what else maybe useful.

for #13 I would love to see whole list of uses. Can always use more ideas to make this ability even more useful.

[MeliCat]

Dear Wohe, I mailed you my ing bag. You may as well dual shard :P

'gently' ? I'm fairly sure I used lots of capitals.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I like it. But I do not place as much importance on it as most players do.
Mostly because it doesn't get useful until very high lvl. And as a cross class skill it is dificult to get it high enough to be really useful IMO.


However... IMO every character should try to find a method of raising the dead.
And 11 Ranks in UMD "is" enough, with a few simple items, to get a usuable chance to use Rez scrolls.

And if you can get full ranks in it, it really does open up a lot of possibilities.

Fireshield scrolls alone can make it worth the investment in some quests.

An endless source of Invisibility is very useful.

GH scrolls.

And if you can get it high enough fo rno-fail Heal scrolls it really does make you very self sufficient.



But....it's not necessary. Just nice to have.

I recommend considering it, but not sacrificing too much to get it.
28pt classes with only 2 skill points per level might not be worth the sacrifice IMO. Depending on what else you want, and if you dump Int and Cha.

Rogues, Bards, and Arties shoud definately take it.

Sorcs and high Cha Pallies should consider it.

Rgrs usually have plenty of skill points.

Brbs have more skill points than average, but usually dump both Int and Cha. Also Rage interferes with many uses of UMD. But Barbs would also get the most use out of Heal scrolls... even a chance of using them that is less than 100% might be worth it to a Barb.....maybe... might just be cheaper to carry several stacks of CSW pots.

Wizards usually have plenty of skill points from Int. Although IMO they get less benefit from UMD than other classes.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I like it on the toons I have that use it. Those toons have backpack slots full of scrolls, items and pots that can help out tremendously in soloing, raising clerics and healing party members.

I like not having it on the toons I don't have it on. I have more space for loot and can use those skill points for other things I use more often. Rarely do I need any umd for RR items as I don't use RR items for other races. I can wait the couple of levels to use the same item that is open to any race. I don't like popping off heal scrolls at 30% chance. If I'm going to be using other classes spell abilities I want no fail or 85% or better so I'm changing items, drinking this pot, to activate this scroll, to activate this scroll, to finally cast this scroll. It does take a little study and practice and like just about any good skill it takes practice to learn what items help the skill and how to build for it to get the most out of it.

I like that you put a list of things that you like using umd for here's my personal list

Shield wands esp lvl 10- clickys are great these wands 10x better
Raise dead
heal
gh scrolls- need those to up the umd and gh always nice to have on anyway
fireball wands-I call these bard grenades
Protection from energy

There may be more I can't remember. I would love to find a vendor that had deathward scrolls out there but pretty sure there isn't one. Were I not completely sickened by the 1st mabar event I would have played the last one for nothing more than the pots that gave deathward. The items in there weren't worth the farm to me anymore.

It's a short list to be sure becaue I'm a minimalist in playstyle. Don't read lazy into that. I do carry all the pots etc I need to be as self sufficient as possible. In most cases it allows me to use my controller setup to it's best abilities giving me quick access to whatever I need while staying in mouselook. In some cases it will slow me down a little as I need to go into inv to get what I need to use but then my inv is very well organized for that reason.

In your list fireshield scrolls are something I might want to start using.

Dimension door scrolls- I would absolutely use but I believe they can't be bought from vendor anymore. If that is incorrect please tell me where I can find that vendor because I would love to stock up. Not going to ah to get them though.

Invis-comes in pots. Good enough for me. I can understand the scroll use though.

Teleport scrolls- not that lazy, rather have an open inv slot

displacement- 30 sec not long enough to me I'd rather go for an ac option or hps and heal scrolls or dragonmark and have another open inv space.

alignment/rr items- not worth umd if this is all you're going to achieve from it imo. A bonus if your going for high umd.

Artificer scrolls-good lord why bother. Have you seen the umd on those things? Carazy!
Adding metal or alignment to a weapon yeah that would be nice. I need to play an artificer before I can decide what else maybe useful.

for #13 I would love to see whole list of uses. Can always use more ideas to make this ability even more useful.

Fireshield really does make a huge difference in a few quests. SoS fire side for instance.

It's one of the best spells in the game IMO. (situationally anyway)

[RenigadeWolf]

I take UMD on most of my characters now, it is an incredibly useful ability. The oddest thing is that none of them with UMD have made it to cap yet (excluding my Barbarian ;p but as Warforged he doesn't get much out of it besides his cure minor wand). I always liked my Half-Elf Dark Monk with the Cleric Dil; only thing i wish i could use is Shield Wands. Even have a Cloak of Ice for Fire Shield/Cold clickies ;p

[Jaid314]

minor side note, but UMD being available to all classes (some as a cross-class skill) is not any different from pen and paper (at least, not the version that DDO is based on).

and yes, it is ridiculously useful.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Dear Wohe, I mailed you my ing bag. You may as well dual shard :P

'gently' ? I'm fairly sure I used lots of capitals.

I had a look to see how much it would cost to send back. 35k plat? No thanks.

I was seriously scared of some glitch deleting the bag and there was this evil little voice inside me jumping up and down yelling to just run off into the night with it. I'm certain that I've never had so much wealth in 1 inventory slot before, I've always spent it too fast in the past.

It really does make me feel honoured that you'd trust me with it. It also reaffirms how awesome our DDO community that there is people like you who would lend their entire GS mat collection (including ~30 LDS' and 50-100 of all other larges) to a new guildy that they've only known for a few weeks. I must have done something right

Still this is a game, I don't advise to make it common practice. It might be just a little bit too much of a temptation for some otherwise lovely people.

[JollySwagMan]

Persuasion items have become a lot more accessible now through Cannith Crafting - min level 3 with nothing else on the item by the way.

Also, Rogue 2 now grants access to Wand and Scroll Mastery I, granting 30% increase in effectiveness...which can work quite nicely with some healing amp

[MeliCat]

~30

Only 27. And only because I have a ton of GS items that I have not yet got around to making. And I did say in the note that you probably want to hand it back to me as the postage was expensive. Such kindness was shown me before. Also, from the bottom of my little healers heart, l want you to be able to UMD a heal scroll ASAP!!!!

I am still currently traumatised by Shroud of all things.

UMD is awesome. Shame I need the points more in concentration and balance on my divines or I would try for it even on them. My helf FvS has the sorc dili atm which is gimp - but it does mean I can dili stone-to-flesh scrolls which after one LoB I have now put a stack on her.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Only 27. And only because I have a ton of GS items that I have not yet got around to making. And I did say in the note that you probably want to hand it back to me as the postage was expensive. Such kindness was shown me before. Also, from the bottom of my little healers heart, l want you to be able to UMD a heal scroll ASAP!!!!

I am still currently traumatised by Shroud of all things.

UMD is awesome. Shame I need the points more in concentration and balance on my divines or I would try for it even on them. My helf FvS has the sorc dili atm which is gimp - but it does mean I can dili stone-to-flesh scrolls which after one LoB I have now put a stack on her.

Yeah it's tricky to find the right balance to fit in UMD on a class like a FvS or Cleric. On my WF FvS I absolutely love UMD as it lets me use fireshield scrolls which can be crucial for keeping things smooth on bases in ev6 (among other places). That's 12 base intelligence and a +2 int tome for balance to give max concentration, UMD and intimidate. Totally worth it.

That last shroud we did was ridiculously smooth imo considering all the ruckus that has been made about the Shroud changes. Sure, hard/elite can be brutal but I've got no problem with normal. Just have you use your brain a bit (oh noes!)

[Sarisa]

I try to fit UMD into every character/TR I do. Even my Cleric main, who still benefits greatly from having enough UMD to use:
Knock scrolls - Surprisingly, many high level locks aren't that difficult. I can't get the VoN, eChains, or Shroud locks, but I can get most of the Amrath ones and eParty (saves time from having to get the keys).

Invisibility
Blur and Displacement

Dimensional Door - The most painful loss was the day Malicia destroyed 13 of these in one run.

Teleport
Greater Teleport - I run a lot of Titans, so it's nice to be able to take a group to the Forge without having to do the two-group-run.

Staff of Arcane Power - For easy caster-less Inferno of the Damned, provide Globe of Invulnerability in HoX, and before they nerfed autocrit, Ray of Enfeeblement on certain bosses to bring them down into helpless state.

Fire Shield - This more than almost anything else helps to keep me alive through heavy spell damage, since Cleric's have pathetically bad reflex saves.

With full swaps and ship buffs, I can hit 36 UMD.

[MeliCat]

I try to fit UMD into every character/TR I do. Even my Cleric main, who still benefits greatly from having enough UMD to use:
Knock scrolls - Surprisingly, many high level locks aren't that difficult. I can't get the VoN, eChains, or Shroud locks, but I can get most of the Amrath ones and eParty (saves time from having to get the keys).

Invisibility
Blur and Displacement

Dimensional Door - The most painful loss was the day Malicia destroyed 13 of these in one run.

Teleport
Greater Teleport - I run a lot of Titans, so it's nice to be able to take a group to the Forge without having to do the two-group-run.

Staff of Arcane Power - For easy caster-less Inferno of the Damned, provide Globe of Invulnerability in HoX, and before they nerfed autocrit, Ray of Enfeeblement on certain bosses to bring them down into helpless state.

Fire Shield - This more than almost anything else helps to keep me alive through heavy spell damage, since Cleric's have pathetically bad reflex saves.

With full swaps and ship buffs, I can hit 36 UMD.

Fascinating

Do you have the seven fingered gloves if you run titan a lot? On your main cleric?

Always like your posts Sarissa. You make me think how I can play my divines better (and yes clerics have such crappy reflex saves... )

[Sarisa]

Do you have the seven fingered gloves if you run titan a lot? On your main cleric?

Yes. I got lucky and they were in my 20th list. I pulled another pair on around my 35th run, and made one of the nine people who rolled very happy.

My standing UMD is 25 (11 ranks, 5 CHA mod, 5 Greensteel Conc Opp/SP item, 2 Luck, 2 Command on the Ring of the Silver Concord).

That allows me to no-fail Invisibility, Blur, Knock, and Master's Touch[1] without depending on any swaps or buffs. That covers most of my solo'ing needs.

Swap-ins include Seven Fingered Gloves (+3 over the Command item), and an Epic Big Top (second epic item I made when I first got into epics last Autumn), and I carry a Gird and a Draconic Necklace for GH. That gives me another 10, then Ship Buffs gives me another 1.

Staff of Arcane Power I need to keep either Ship buffs on, or use the GH clickie. I need GH for Displacement. Fire Shield I need to either swap something in, or live with the 5% chance of failure with my standing equipment, GH, and ship shrine.

I should really look into the Artificer scrolls more, to see if any of them are useful enough to carry.


[1] Master's Touch is used when I want to use the decent Cove 1-handers, for instance in Amrath. Cove Scimitar and Smallblade together kill casters and excess archers a bit faster there than usual Souleater or Dreamspitter I use to melee with.

[MeliCat]

Yes. I got lucky and they were in my 20th list. I pulled another pair on around my 35th run, and made one of the nine people who rolled very happy.

My standing UMD is 25 (11 ranks, 5 CHA mod, 5 Greensteel Conc Opp/SP item, 2 Luck, 2 Command on the Ring of the Silver Concord).

That allows me to no-fail Invisibility, Blur, Knock, and Master's Touch[1] without depending on any swaps or buffs. That covers most of my solo'ing needs.

Swap-ins include Seven Fingered Gloves (+3 over the Command item), and an Epic Big Top (second epic item I made when I first got into epics last Autumn), and I carry a Gird and a Draconic Necklace for GH. That gives me another 10, then Ship Buffs gives me another 1.

Staff of Arcane Power I need to keep either Ship buffs on, or use the GH clickie. I need GH for Displacement. Fire Shield I need to either swap something in, or live with the 5% chance of failure with my standing equipment, GH, and ship shrine.

I should really look into the Artificer scrolls more, to see if any of them are useful enough to carry.


[1] Master's Touch is used when I want to use the decent Cove 1-handers, for instance in Amrath. Cove Scimitar and Smallblade together kill casters and excess archers a bit faster there than usual Souleater or Dreamspitter I use to melee with.

I thought that masters touch you couldn't use that way? That it was main hand only? (And therefore impossible to use scrolls really :/)

Arti scrolls have high UMD - but a lot of people love addy.

Nice on the gloves I'm trying to get into a regular practice of running Titan.... hasn't happened yet.... used to have a friend where we would regularly dualbox it both 2x a week.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I thought that masters touch you couldn't use that way? That it was main hand only? (And therefore impossible to use scrolls really :/)

Arti scrolls have high UMD - but a lot of people love addy.

Nice on the gloves I'm trying to get into a regular practice of running Titan.... hasn't happened yet.... used to have a friend where we would regularly dualbox it both 2x a week.

I'll run titan with you when the character transfer goes through. The character that I'm bringing over is flagged.

Masters Touch affects any weapons that you're holding so you can hold the weapon in your offhand while the scroll is in your main hand and the scroll will affect the offhand weapon. Unfortunately this doesn't let you use big weapons but oh well.

[Sarisa]

I thought that masters touch you couldn't use that way? That it was main hand only? (And therefore impossible to use scrolls really :/)

It works with 1-handed weapons.
I have a weapon set with the stack of Master's Touch scrolls in my main hand, Cove Scimitar in the offhand.
Use the scroll.
Then a weapon set with the stack of Master's Touch scrolls with the Cove Smallblade in the offhand.
Use the scroll.

Both then have Master's Touch applied to them, and can be used in a set together.

I'm considering getting a Kron'zek's Cruelty to use in that manner as well, since it's a bit better damage when I have enough to-hit than a Rahl's Might is when I want to work on keeping Improved Destruction on a mob.

A Rogue in guild uses the same setup to use his Epic Unkor's Cleaver in his off-hand, and used it on his first life as a Dwarf to use his supply of good Dwarven Axes.