Build request: Warforged Bard

[Havok.cry]

First, a caveat for anyone skimming: READ THE WHOLE THREAD. Moving on:

I understand what I am asking for is not optimal, and those reading should continue with the understanding that this is not going to spend more than 5 seconds at the endgame before TRing again.

I need a 34 point build for a warforged bard, would like preform, umd, concentration and stealth skills, with balance/diplo/bluff/haggle secondary but not nessesary. Would like good spell DC's for a bard, would like relevant melee capability. My past life is wizard. Reason for warforged is all the already grinded gear I dont want to grind it all again for a fleshy. Spellsinger or virtuoso seem more interesting to me so I would like it to be one of them.

[Havok.cry]

bump, still hoping for a bit o help.

[Infant]

bump, still hoping for a bit o help.

Hi,

I am not sure you can archieve all the things you mentioned.
However, here is a good guide on bards which also contains a collection of builds

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275472

maybe you will find what you are looking for.

Infant

[Truga]

Something like
10 STR
8 DEX
18 CON
14 INT
6 WIS
16 CHA

14 int = 8 skill points per level so
1 umd
2 perform
3 move silently
4 hide
5 balance
6 diplo
7 bluff
8 haggle

10 STR for carry weight (I don't see where else I would spend these points tbh)
max CHA for DCs and songs.

This is how I'll build mine when I TR.

[Havok.cry]

Hi,

I am not sure you can archieve all the things you mentioned.
However, here is a good guide on bards which also contains a collection of builds

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275472

maybe you will find what you are looking for.

Infant

Thanks for finding that link for me ill look through it

Something like
10 STR
8 DEX
18 CON
14 INT
6 WIS
16 CHA

14 int = 8 skill points per level so
1 umd
2 perform
3 move silently
4 hide
5 balance
6 diplo
7 bluff
8 haggle

10 STR for carry weight (I don't see where else I would spend these points tbh)
max CHA for DCs and songs.

This is how I'll build mine when I TR.

I might drop the con by 2 and use it to up str a bit. Going for a generalist sort of bard, and want to hit things. Not sure how many feats i should devote to melee and how many to casting though.

[Truga]

If you're going to semi-melee I strongly suggest the warchanter. There's plenty good builds for that around I think. Though I hate that it has weapon focus as a prerequisite...

Also, as far as melee feats go, you only need power attack, and improved critical: slash. Use two-handed weapons along with master's touch (it's 10 sp per shrine) to avoid taking a mastery feat. Should use one on toughness and one on either maximize or empower healing. Most people prefer maximize, because in raids you want the extra punch it gives to your cures. Heighten isn't too useful on a bard (max spell level is only 6), but you can still take it along with enchantment focus feats to squeeze the most out of your dancing sphere.

I still think spellsinger needs something to punch their enchantment DC a bit higher though. In endgame it's just short of being good. :P

Also 14 str 16 con is fine. 16 con is still plenty, and 14 starting STR is good enough to melee up to high levels.

[Havok.cry]

If you're going to semi-melee I strongly suggest the warchanter. There's plenty good builds for that around I think. Though I hate that it has weapon focus as a prerequisite...

Also, as far as melee feats go, you only need power attack, and improved critical: slash. Use two-handed weapons along with master's touch (it's 10 sp per shrine) to avoid taking a mastery feat. Should use one on toughness and one on either maximize or empower healing. Most people prefer maximize, because in raids you want the extra punch it gives to your cures. Heighten isn't too useful on a bard (max spell level is only 6), but you can still take it along with enchantment focus feats to squeeze the most out of your dancing sphere.

I still think spellsinger needs something to punch their enchantment DC a bit higher though. In endgame it's just short of being good. :P

Also 14 str 16 con is fine. 16 con is still plenty, and 14 starting STR is good enough to melee up to high levels.

Thanks for that breakdown I think ill use it and go spellsinger, Ill drop the IC slash for the wiz active past life though, for another DC bump. Ill be TRing as soon as it hits 20 again so I wont need to worry about true endgame much.

[kaustikfix]

Consider that some bard songs are funky and will not help a WF toon. Immune Immune Immune. Your self healing abilities will also be semi-******** right off the line. I love playing WF toons as well as bards. I would never mix the two.

[Havok.cry]

Consider that some bard songs are funky and will not help a WF toon. Immune Immune Immune. Your self healing abilities will also be semi-******** right off the line. I love playing WF toons as well as bards. I would never mix the two.

I know that, but I'm not going to grind out fleshy gear that ill only use for 1 of like 12 lives, so im going to to warforged despite that its not optimal. Also I thought those songs couldn't get the caster of them?

[Truga]

I know that, but I'm not going to grind out fleshy gear that ill only use for 1 of like 12 lives, so im going to to warforged despite that its not optimal. Also I thought those songs couldn't get the caster of them?

Actually, I have a WF warchanter (don't play it much anymore though), and all songs work just fine. Some spellsinger songs were bugged, but I think they were fixed too. They seemed to work on my wiz last time, but it could also be because the wiz is actually undead, not WF. Definitely worth testing, ask your guild spellsinger about it. :P

[Havok.cry]

Actually, I have a WF warchanter (don't play it much anymore though), and all songs work just fine. Some spellsinger songs were bugged, but I think they were fixed too. They seemed to work on my wiz last time, but it could also be because the wiz is actually undead, not WF. Definitely worth testing, ask your guild spellsinger about it. :P

The healing song wont heal undead or WF, the sp over time song wont effect WF of any type, the effect that gives spashes of sp for every song will effect undead wf, but not normal WF. As far as I know it is not WAI in those regards.

[Gorbadoc]

CC spells OR melee ability, but not both.

This discussion has occurred repeatedly in these forums. Basically:

1. CC spells require a maxed or near-maxed charisma (so warforged is actually a weak option)
2. Meleeing well enough to justify healing you requires a high strength
3. Bards who don't want to be dead should want a high or high-ish constitution (not less than 14; 16 preferred; 18 if dwarf or warforged melee)

If you want to fit all three into a single build, the numbers just don't add up. We see the same story with feats: it's near-impossible to cram everything you want from both the casting side and the melee side, and then you still want Toughness.

I generally recommend that bards spec for melee: You'll still have CC songs, and you'll be better at soloing.


Note that the distinction I'm drawing applies only to CC spells. Any bard CAN cram in good healing spells, and all bards should have good CC songs.

Also note that you can have some melee ability on a CC spell bard. I've been there, done that, though: "Okay, I buffed everyone up... and now I'm hitting Suulomades, but with such little force that I'd be more useful if I just stood back and healed." Or, "Oops, the orthon killed me. If only I'd built this character to survive longer and kill faster." Reaching that point typically requires dumping charisma down to 12 and pumping strength (and having a solid constitution). Maybe someone will come in and talk of their awesome Epic Dynastic Falcata or Elyd Edge build. I don't pretend to know the details of such builds. Heck, I can't even attest to their effectiveness, since I never observed one in action.


By the way, note that spellsong vigor and sustaining song have serious bugs. I vaguely remember them simply not working on warforged.

[Havok.cry]

CC spells OR melee ability, but not both.

This discussion has occurred repeatedly in these forums. Basically:

1. CC spells require a maxed or near-maxed charisma (so warforged is actually a weak option)
2. Meleeing well enough to justify healing you requires a high strength
3. Bards who don't want to be dead should want a high or high-ish constitution (not less than 14; 16 preferred; 18 if dwarf or warforged melee)

If you want to fit all three into a single build, the numbers just don't add up. We see the same story with feats: it's near-impossible to cram everything you want from both the casting side and the melee side, and then you still want Toughness.

I generally recommend that bards spec for melee: You'll still have CC songs, and you'll be better at soloing.


Note that the distinction I'm drawing applies only to CC spells. Any bard CAN cram in good healing spells, and all bards should have good CC songs.

Also note that you can have some melee ability on a CC spell bard. I've been there, done that, though: "Okay, I buffed everyone up... and now I'm hitting Suulomades, but with such little force that I'd be more useful if I just stood back and healed." Or, "Oops, the orthon killed me. If only I'd built this character to survive longer and kill faster." Reaching that point typically requires dumping charisma down to 12 and pumping strength (and having a solid constitution). Maybe someone will come in and talk of their awesome Epic Dynastic Falcata or Elyd Edge build. I don't pretend to know the details of such builds. Heck, I can't even attest to their effectiveness, since I never observed one in action.


By the way, note that spellsong vigor and sustaining song have serious bugs. I vaguely remember them simply not working on warforged.

I appreciate your comments but I hope you didn't miss where I said this is not an end game build and I will be TRing the moment I hit 20. I won't do much raiding at all so hitting sully for significant damage is low on my priorities. Basically I want to be able to disco/charm all the enemy mobs while Im soloing so I can easily and safely beat them down. Honestly I am un-interested in discussion over how useful this will be, while I AM interested in discussion on how to pull it off even though it isn't optimal.

[Darkrok]

CC spells OR melee ability, but not both.

This discussion has occurred repeatedly in these forums. Basically:

1. CC spells require a maxed or near-maxed charisma (so warforged is actually a weak option)
2. Meleeing well enough to justify healing you requires a high strength
3. Bards who don't want to be dead should want a high or high-ish constitution (not less than 14; 16 preferred; 18 if dwarf or warforged melee)

If you want to fit all three into a single build, the numbers just don't add up. We see the same story with feats: it's near-impossible to cram everything you want from both the casting side and the melee side, and then you still want Toughness.

I generally recommend that bards spec for melee: You'll still have CC songs, and you'll be better at soloing.


Note that the distinction I'm drawing applies only to CC spells. Any bard CAN cram in good healing spells, and all bards should have good CC songs.

Also note that you can have some melee ability on a CC spell bard. I've been there, done that, though: "Okay, I buffed everyone up... and now I'm hitting Suulomades, but with such little force that I'd be more useful if I just stood back and healed." Or, "Oops, the orthon killed me. If only I'd built this character to survive longer and kill faster." Reaching that point typically requires dumping charisma down to 12 and pumping strength (and having a solid constitution). Maybe someone will come in and talk of their awesome Epic Dynastic Falcata or Elyd Edge build. I don't pretend to know the details of such builds. Heck, I can't even attest to their effectiveness, since I never observed one in action.


By the way, note that spellsong vigor and sustaining song have serious bugs. I vaguely remember them simply not working on warforged.

This entire post is correct. Especially the last part. The biggest bugs with those two songs are the one he mentioned and the fact that they overwrite each other (when you have 2 bards in the group, one SS'er, one Virt).

Leveling to cap as a WF'd I liked Virt level 6-11 (Enthrallment is SO abuseable at those levels!) and Warchanter the rest of the way.

As far as fitting in melee, the problem is there just isn't enough feats. To REALLY do CC on a bard I can't see doing anything less than the following: Toughness, Heighten, SF: Enchant, GSF: Enchant, PL: Wizard. That's 5 feats that for me would be non-negotiable. For melee you would have to have PA and iCrit. That's for bare-minimum sword and board dps (which is really an oxymoron but I digress). That leaves no room for things like Shield Mastery (which would be a huge boon if you're going to do S&B dps), Spell Pen/GSP (useful w/ only 1 wizard PL), and Max/Emp which are very important if you wanted to heal as well. Much easier to build a bard to just stand there holding their scrolls/epic elyd's with a shield in the off-hand for damage reduction and take the 5 main CC feats, Maximize (to give a bit of pop to the mass cures), and shield mastery to leverage the natural WF'd toughness into even more survivability.

[Havok.cry]

This entire post is correct. Especially the last part. The biggest bugs with those two songs are the one he mentioned and the fact that they overwrite each other (when you have 2 bards in the group, one SS'er, one Virt).

Leveling to cap as a WF'd I liked Virt level 6-11 (Enthrallment is SO abuseable at those levels!) and Warchanter the rest of the way.

As far as fitting in melee, the problem is there just isn't enough feats. To REALLY do CC on a bard I can't see doing anything less than the following: Toughness, Heighten, SF: Enchant, GSF: Enchant, PL: Wizard. That's 5 feats that for me would be non-negotiable. For melee you would have to have PA and iCrit. That's for bare-minimum sword and board dps (which is really an oxymoron but I digress). That leaves no room for things like Shield Mastery (which would be a huge boon if you're going to do S&B dps), Spell Pen/GSP (useful w/ only 1 wizard PL), and Max/Emp which are very important if you wanted to heal as well. Much easier to build a bard to just stand there holding their scrolls/epic elyd's with a shield in the off-hand for damage reduction and take the 5 main CC feats, Maximize (to give a bit of pop to the mass cures), and shield mastery to leverage the natural WF'd toughness into even more survivability.

I am going to be doing this anyway, weather or not I have permission of the forums. So please if your only comments are to tell me to do something else, please just stay out of the thread. If your going to help me build it then please help out. Also are you seriously telling me I should S&B for DPS??? Why when I could swing a greataxe, greatsword, or falchion and do a ton more damage than s&b?

[Jasparion]

CC spells OR melee ability, but not both.

This discussion has occurred repeatedly in these forums. Basically:

1. CC spells require a maxed or near-maxed charisma (so warforged is actually a weak option)
2. Meleeing well enough to justify healing you requires a high strength
3. Bards who don't want to be dead should want a high or high-ish constitution (not less than 14; 16 preferred; 18 if dwarf or warforged melee)

If you want to fit all three into a single build, the numbers just don't add up. We see the same story with feats: it's near-impossible to cram everything you want from both the casting side and the melee side, and then you still want Toughness.

I generally recommend that bards spec for melee: You'll still have CC songs, and you'll be better at soloing.

Id agree. I have 2 types of Bard I would look at playing: WF Warchanter, or Drow/Human Spellsinger. Even at 36 points and as many past lives as you can get there really isnt a way to get the best of both worlds. All you'd get is Jack-of-all-Trades and Master-of-None.

A 2/6/12 Rogue/Fighter/Bard WF is VERY nice. A pure 20 Bard who focusses on spells is VERY nice.

[Khayvan]

WF Spellsinger:

STR 16
DEX 8
CON 16
INT 10
WIS 6
CHA 16

Feats:
1) Toughness
3) Past Life:Wizard
6) Maximize
9) Extend*
12) Quicken
15) Spell Focus: Enchantment
18) Power Attack

Skills: Max Perform, UMD, Concentration and Move Silently. (use Invisibilty spell instead of Hide). Split the remaining points up as you see fit.

Enhancements:
Extra Song I-III
Inspired Attack I-II
Inspired Damage I-III
Lingering Song I-III
Spellsinger I-II
Capstone: Musical Prodigy
Improved Concentration I-II
Lyric of Song I-II
Song Magic I-IV
Energy of Music I-III
Charisma I-II
Wand/Scroll Mastery I-IV

Racial Toughness I-II
WF Constitution I-II
WF Healer's Friend I

Playstyle: Buff, CC, Heal. Hit things with a Master's Touch'd Carnifex in between.

*I consider Extend mandatory on a bard. If you can live without it, move SF: Enchantment to lv 9 and take IC: Slashing or Greater Spell Focus at 15.

[Havok.cry]

WF Spellsinger:

snip

thanks for that

[Gorbadoc]

First, a caveat for anyone skimming: READ THE WHOLE THREAD. Moving on:

WF Spellsinger:...

That's similar to what's been bouncing 'round the back of my mind:

Stats: 16 strength, 16 or 18 constitution. I'm ambivalent about charisma, but somewhere between 14 and 16, and give it all your levelups. Dex and Wis both dumped. Intelligence according to how many skills you consider "must-haves".

Feats:
I recommend having Toughness, Power Attack, and Improved Critical (probably Slashing) by the time you reach your teens.

SF: Enchant isn't a bad way to qualify for Spellsinger 1. At level 6, that +1 DC should help you more than Maximize.

You might also consider taking Skill Focus: UMD early. Your life will be easier the sooner you can UMD Repair Wands (another reason to go Spellsinger). Just swap it out whenever you feel like your repairing power is sufficient. Right before taking level 12 would be a logical place to swap it for Power Attack or Past Life: Wizard, assuming you have a +cha skills greensteel item to equip.

Following all of these thoughts:
1) Toughness
3) Skill Focus: UMD
6) Spell Focus: Enchantment
9) Power Attack or Past Life: Wizard
12) Imp Crit
15, 18: Whatever you like. Quickening Disco Balls has appeal; Maximizing Mass Cure Mod has appeal; Extending buffs has appeal.

[Havok.cry]

You might also consider taking Skill Focus: UMD early. Your life will be easier the sooner you can UMD Repair Wands (another reason to go Spellsinger). Just swap it out whenever you feel like your repairing power is sufficient. Right before taking level 12 would be a logical place to swap it for Power Attack or Past Life: Wizard, assuming you have a +cha skills greensteel item to equip.

Had forgotten about SF umd, using it for the early levels definitely has appeal thanks for bringing it up. I dont have a cha skills shroud item yet, but, what do you think about holding onto it till 16 where I can start using my DT heal amp docent?