Shroud Part IV

[slarden]

I am sure any of you that ran shroud since the U12 update noticed the painful new blades.

The combination of the blades and no ability to Rez in part IV make it by far the most challenging party of the raid. Part of the problem is simple lack of a consistent plan. When the blades close in some stay in and die while others scatter to get away from the blades making it nearly impossible to heal everyone. And then while battling devils again someone always backs into the blades and dies.

Really good DPS takes harry in one round before the blades close in which means no changes are necessary. If the DPS isn't strong enough to take Harry in round 1, has anyone found a good approach? Would an all range shroud be a possible way to go?

[sirgog]

I am sure any of you that ran shroud since the U12 update noticed the painful new blades.

The combination of the blades and no ability to Rez in part IV make it by far the most challenging party of the raid. Part of the problem is simple lack of a consistent plan. When the blades close in some stay in and die while others scatter to get away from the blades making it nearly impossible to heal everyone. And then while battling devils again someone always backs into the blades and dies.

Really good DPS takes harry in one round before the blades close in which means no changes are necessary. If the DPS isn't strong enough to take Harry in round 1, has anyone found a good approach? Would an all range shroud be a possible way to go?

When blades get somewhat close to the middle, anyone in melee range with Harry needs to run out, fast.

If it's Hard or Elite, you probably all want to run in the same direction at the same time, which needs to be prearranged.

[ka0t1c1sm]

The raid leader just needs to establish the strategy (withdraw when blades close in, designate a rallying point, etc.), and everyone in the raid group needs to listen and follow direction (that one's more of a **** shoot.).

[Hinedhel]

I've ran the Shroud on normal both with an epic-geared level-20 fighter and a non-epic level-17 monk, and my strategy has been always getting the hell out of there when the blades close in and range Harry for a while (less DPS indeed, but saves the healers a lot of trouble). My first two runs were wipes (friday and saturday after U12, when no one knew well how things went), but after that everything's going really smooth. I'm looking forward for a hard of elite run (ask Breixo or Helcias if you want to run one of those, I'll gladly join). All in all, I consider that U12 actually improved The Shroud, making it more challenging and upping the loot a tad. Two thumbs up, devs!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I've ran the Shroud on normal both with an epic-geared level-20 fighter and a non-epic level-17 monk, and my strategy has been always getting the hell out of there when the blades close in and range Harry for a while (less DPS indeed, but saves the healers a lot of trouble). My first two runs were wipes (friday and saturday after U12, when no one knew well how things went), but after that everything's going really smooth. I'm looking forward for a hard of elite run (ask Breixo or Helcias if you want to run one of those, I'll gladly join). All in all, I consider that U12 actually improved The Shroud, making it more challenging and upping the loot a tad. Two thumbs up, devs!

I think it is "sorta" an improvement as well. But...

my problem is that the players tend to respond to any change that makes things more difficult, by being more "exclusive" with who they let join their groups.
Usually with the idea that better gear means better chance of success.

This hurts many players.
Especially casual players.
it promotes elitism...which I hate.

[Bogenbroom]

I think it is "sorta" an improvement as well. But...

my problem is that the players tend to respond to any change that makes things more difficult, by being more "exclusive" with who they let join their groups.
Usually with the idea that better gear means better chance of success.

This hurts many players.
Especially casual players.
it promotes elitism...which I hate.

I do not disagree with your sentiment at all. The point of defense for those elitists I would make, though, is that since the update I have seen several instances of players borking the run by not following directions.

I am not an elitist. I do not TR, I have *way* too many characters to gear them to the nines, and a few of my older characters are a little woeful in the HP department. That said, I do understand the frustration of some of the elite players, and the pug leaders who are concerned about their rep after leading failed raids.

It isn't about new players or even really gear or HP, it is about level of trust, and rep, gear, and HP are the more available currencies of competence in DDO. If you have those things you are less likely to be a complete tool. Not that you couldn't be, it is just a numbers game, and the value weighting for each of those currencies will vary from player to player.

That is a bit of a tangent from your point, but I thought it contributory.

[dunklezhan]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=350347

hope that helps.

[Original]

Really simple, join a group that can kill him before blades come in. And dont join the noob runs, let them suffer and learn haha

[Stermlin]

Really simple, join a group that can kill him before blades come in. And dont join the noob runs, let them suffer and learn haha

And this is why I am getting sick of this game. It is becoming far more elitist and far less PUG friendly. You practically have to be in an uber guild with uber epiced players to get anywhere.

[elricken]

And this is why I am getting sick of this game. It is becoming far more elitist and far less PUG friendly. You practically have to be in an uber guild with uber epiced players to get anywhere.

I'm an elitist with lots of epic gear, and yet I still don't get anywhere

Just a dead server lately, takes ages to fill any lfms.

[Emag]

I'm an elitist with lots of epic gear, and yet I still don't get anywhere

Just a dead server lately, takes ages to fill any lfms.

BUT DUE BRO I'VE SEEN SCREENIES OF PEOPLE HAVING LFMS UP. oh em gee you know nothing fellow soullesstard lololol

[twigzz]

I'm an elitist with lots of epic gear, and yet I still don't get anywhere

Just a dead server lately, takes ages to fill any lfms.

Indeed, Sarlona has taken a dive since the update.

Tho it does make me play my TR more lol.

[djl]

I'm an elitist with lots of epic gear, and yet I still don't get anywhere

Just a dead server lately, takes ages to fill any lfms.

It's because a whole bunch of neat console games just came out, and that combined with the epic fail that was U12 made many people quit playing (some perm, most will be back).

[slarden]

Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts and ideas. The detailed write-up was excellent.

So far I've only joined groups rather than starting a group (sometimes an invite from another guild but typically just PUG). As many of you stated the learning curve alone will improve results over the next few weeks.

[Hellllboy]

It is for sure that sitting back and going on auto pilot with Mass Heal is no longer an option for a group-Healers have to be more adaptive and reactive to quick changes in how the players are sustaining damage. That means more Cure spams in conjunction w/spot healing.

I tried it (first time since change) a few nights ago-fired off a mass heal right off the bat at the melee scrum-had 3 deaths before my animation could complete due to blades spawning on Harry when he dropped down.

[somenewnoob]

Well without some strategy it will be a wipe. Even with some it CAN be a wipe.

Mostly, kill the devils slowly, and try to not all stand huddled around the guys killing the devils. They spawn blades.

When the blades are closing in at end of round 1.....get the eff out of there! I don't think I've seen anybody stay in and live. Run back to entrance, left, right, somewhere, anywhere, but don't stay in teh middle. If you're a melee, get out, take out the trusty return throwing axe and whack him a couple times with it before the devils come back.

Not impossible, just much harder. Luck and lag plays a big role now.

[LordPiglet]

Apparently the strategy is back to 2 casters max

Last night I saw one for Barbarians only



And this is why people sit around, because even though my FvS is off timer, I'm not breaking him out into shroud for those kinds of groups. He doesn't need anything from shroud other then larges to trade or craft on other toons.

[JOTMON]

Apparently the strategy is back to 2 casters max

Last night I saw one for Barbarians only



And this is why people sit around, because even though my FvS is off timer, I'm not breaking him out into shroud for those kinds of groups. He doesn't need anything from shroud other then larges to trade or craft on other toons.

Not from what I have been seeing,
round 1 Melee's dead from the blades... self healing caster/healers... dot dot dot runaround like crazy.. dot dot dot...win..

All cleric/caster runs from now on. everyone else just hide in a corner and try not to die.

[Solmage]

Not from what I have been seeing,
round 1 Melee's dead from the blades... self healing caster/healers... dot dot dot runaround like crazy.. dot dot dot...win..

All cleric/caster runs from now on. everyone else just hide in a corner and try not to die.

^This.

Ran a shroud on normal, we had two very solid high dps wizards, 3 divines, 1 good/very good ranged ranger, and ...buncha noobs. (200 hp rogue, seriously? 370 hp barb? sigh) 3 guesses as to what happened to the noobies within the start of part 4, heck some died before harry even spawned. Still, we had an easy completion with no pots used. Give me another high DPS range and it'd been a 1 rounder.

As for the blades from devils, my instructions to the party were easy: stay away from them, I'll handle it. Insta-killed them all in two casts (durn 1s..), making sure the blades aggro'd me, and this kept them away from the party, and since the devils died quickly, the blades didn't stay very long after me. This worked very well except for that one noobie that didn't feel like listening, but it's not like he was going to contribute anyway, so...

I'll be doing a puggy(*) shroud on hard today, should be fun.

(*) 4-6 core people I know, rest whatever

[Stermlin]

I'll be doing a puggy(*) shroud on hard today, should be fun.

I'd like to get in on that if you don't mind. Only have Mystym off timer, lvl 20 Dark Monk. Let me know if you want him and what time you plan on running.