New D&D MMO and it's impact in DDO

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Was the game store uphill both ways, too?

Thats cool. Glad there are fanboys of 4, we certainly had our diehards (me included) of 1.0-3.5.

I will hold out hope 5.0 brings me back to the table. 4 didnt do it for me.

[Uska]

Why would you need to take a spell more than once they don't run out

As far as money grabs yeah pretty much everything WOTC does is a moneygrab but I don't see how that relates to the actual game



I can't respond to this as I've never played 1.0 or 2.0 so I can't make any comparisons

So you could cast it more than once per encounter I hate the little power things at will per encounter etc......... I reallly and truly hate healing surges.

[Uska]

Was the game store uphill both ways, too?

I am certainly capable of keeping track of lots of things. Buy why do so unnecessarily? A good game design strips out the unnecessary things. And a good tabletop game recognizes that a DM's (and the players') time is finite, and works to allow them to make the most of it.

And you're ignoring the purpose of the quote you pulled out, which was to rebut your "4E is suitable for monitors, not tabletops" argument. Whether you think 4E goes too far or not in regards to making for a good game, I maintain that removing complexity makes a game more suitable for tabletop, not less. A computer can handle a lot of rules complexity trivially.



Having lots of superfluous details to keep track of during combats and adventure-building made you scribes, bards, and dreamweavers?



Huh? The option of purchasing lots of books was always a part of DnD...



Frankly, I think 3.5 is about as far removed from DnD's roots as 4E, just in different ways. The extreme optimization and powergaming available in 3.5, for example, that 4E reigned in.

And lets also not forget that DnD was born as a variant of a tactical miniatures game.

No 3.x is still recognizeable as dnd 4E is so only by the name on the cover you said yourself you never played 1.0 or 2.0 so you cant compare them right

[Uska]

Thats cool. Glad there are fanboys of 4, we certainly had our diehards (me included) of 1.0-3.5.

I will hold out hope 5.0 brings me back to the table. 4 didnt do it for me.

I will never again trust them to make a pnp game moved on to a game I prefer now since I know the people somewhat (not pathfinder) everyone is cool and seem like friends even on their fourms where you can chat(well post) with the designers and not just about the game but things in general.

[die]

I have been following this close, i cant wait

I hope it turns out well , ddo is a old engine its time for fresh blood, still love My ddo.. but old is old that's about it

[die]

4E doesnt seem anything really like a rpg to me its more like a fantasy combat sim

PNP fo rthe most part is dead, its the age of video , and my grand kids willl be playing in a sim's machine i hope , and ill be right there

times change move along or get ran over

[dkyle]

Thats cool. Glad there are fanboys of 4, we certainly had our diehards (me included) of 1.0-3.5.

I wouldn't say "fanboy", since I'm not going to be running it anymore pretty soon, when my current campaign wraps up; I'll be using a different system. Non-DnD. 4E is far from perfect, but to me, it's the best edition there's been of DnD.

So you could cast it more than once per encounter I hate the little power things at will per encounter etc......... I reallly and truly hate healing surges.

It is possible to cast the same spell twice per encounter; it just takes a little, you know, "thought" and "care" in building your character. Seems like your complaints are all "it's not like the older editions, so it's bad". Why is it so bad that 4E has rules that encourage people to use a variety of spells, instead of spamming the same ones?

And as for what you hate... those are all things that I think are great. Among the best things 4E added.

No 3.x is still recognizeable as dnd 4E is so only by the name on the cover you said yourself you never played 1.0 or 2.0 so you cant compare them right

4E is certainly recognizable. The same ability scores, d20 to-hit/skills, HP, XP, AC, Reflex, Fortitude, Will, many of the same races and classes. If you can't "recognize" it, you're probably aren't looking.

And I did play 2E a little, and am familiar with the older editions in general. Enough to know how radical a change 3E/3.5 was.

[joaofalcao]

If you can't "recognize" it, you're probably aren't looking.

Given you look hard enough, you can "recognize" preety much anything.

I had a friend that once said that "With the 4E, DnD finally got out of the closet". Cant really argue much with him. 4E is more like a wargame, cant think of it as an RPG at all.

I tryed to like 4E. Who didnt? But you know....

Now, the new NW game is based on 4th edition rules? I can barely recognize the DDO I play today from the DnD I played. Cant see why 4E is going to be a problem for NW.

I would start to concern myself with poor storylines if I were a FR fan. DDO storylines for instance, are preety much poor excuses to beat stuff.

[Uska]

PNP fo rthe most part is dead, its the age of video , and my grand kids willl be playing in a sim's machine i hope , and ill be right there

times change move along or get ran over

I sure wish dream park was real and pnp dnd might be dead but not all pnp games are we play a great one when we can and its not dnd or pathfinder. or gurps(why do I always associate that one with hurling)

[Arzoah]

So how does unbalanced classes = Better Roleplaying

Well, I always saw that players at my table had to take greater risks to compete when they were outclassed. Success sometimes requires taking risks and rolling the dice to see if the calculation was worth it.

[Arzoah]

I ain't no expert at how rights and leasing works, so my question is:
If WOTC won't renew Turbine lease rights, can Turbine continue publishing DDO?

In a kind of "ok, you guys had the rights for 8 years, now you can continue working on it, but others guys can too" way?
Or is more like "close the servers, you can't go on with this"?

And a little more on-topic than the debate of which edition is best, which is worst, which will said user not touch...

Yes, the above scenario is quite plausible. Check SWG by SOE closing Dec 15 2011 and SW:TOR opening a week later by BioWare.

[Failedlegend]

And a little more on-topic than the debate of which edition is best, which is worst, which will said user not touch...

Yes, the above scenario is quite plausible. Check SWG by SOE closing Dec 15 2011 and SW:TOR opening a week later by BioWare.

Except SWG was an utter failure and Bioware is a well known company for that has a reputation for making awesome happen.


While DDO is a highly succesful game and Cryptic is known to ooze failure.

Well, I always saw that players at my table had to take greater risks to compete when they were outclassed. Success sometimes requires taking risks and rolling the dice to see if the calculation was worth it.

Again this has not changed with 4e so I stil don't see how 3.5e has any advantage here

[Uska]

Except SWG was an utter failure and Bioware is a well known company for that has a reputation for making awesome happen.


While DDO is a highly succesful game and Cryptic is known to ooze failure.



Again this has not changed with 4e so I stil don't see how 3.5e has any advantage here

SWG was quite good until they kept monkeying with it and even bioware cant make the turkey that is tor even terrible its much worse then that.

[Uska]

Except SWG was an utter failure and Bioware is a well known company for that has a reputation for making awesome happen.


While DDO is a highly succesful game and Cryptic is known to ooze failure.



Again this has not changed with 4e so I stil don't see how 3.5e has any advantage here

I think it might be a generation thing I am over twice yoiur age we just dont see things the same way I have been playing dnd a lot longer then yoiu have even been alive so that will shape how I see what is a good dnd game different from what you will

[dkyle]

Given you look hard enough, you can "recognize" preety much anything.

Platitudes aside, what is your standard of "recognizable"? What would 4E need to have to make it "recognizable". To me, the things I listed, and more, make it blatantly and obviously "recognizable" already.

Give someone unfamiliar with DnD the first few chapters of the 3.5 PHB and 4E PHB, with any reference to the game's name censored out, ask them if the two games are "similar" or "related", and do you honestly think they'd say "no"?

4E is more like a wargame, cant think of it as an RPG at all.

It's an RPG, with combat resolution based on wargame mechanics. Like all editions of DnD.

Well, I always saw that players at my table had to take greater risks to compete when they were outclassed. Success sometimes requires taking risks and rolling the dice to see if the calculation was worth it.

Balance is between players, and between players and whatever "at level" encounters are suggested by the rules. In both 3.5 and 4E, a DM can throw above level encounters at the party. The only thing that's changed is that it's much easier for a DM to predict how challenging an encounter will be.

I think it might be a generation thing I am over twice yoiur age we just dont see things the same way I have been playing dnd a lot longer then yoiu have even been alive so that will shape how I see what is a good dnd game different from what you will

Then, given your great knowledge and expertise, I'm sure you'll be able to explain why the things you dislike about 4E are bad and make it a lesser game. So far you seem to just hate it for being different.

[MnaSidhe]

4E is more like a wargame, cant think of it as an RPG at all.

Some of the best fun I had roleplaying, was when we took the wargame rules (in that case WH40K) and just set off roleplaying...

I stopped changing my rules at 2E... the books are now held together by tape...

[Missing_Minds]

Its even rumored NWNO will include true plane walking adventure as Cryptics lead designer is none other then Jack Emmerett himself the single name most connected with the praise heaped upon the classic and much loved D&D PC game Planescapes Torment. For those who know that game and name they probably just started drooling.

And you know what? JE can kiss my a$$. He and a few of the other people at Cryptic that got kicked out, are the reason why Cryptic started to have such a **** time trying to get things done.

Also, JE has a bug up his rear about F2P wanting to never have a store, but only a subscription bases.
http://www.mmogamer.com/02/25/2008/f...at-gdc08-recap

Time change, people change, JE is past his prime.

And frankly, 4E is different from 3.xE. It probably won't phase DDO what so ever other than there is another MMO out there. It will be business as usual for Turbine, honestly.

[Vanquishedfo]

And you know what? JE can kiss my a$$. He and a few of the other people at Cryptic that got kicked out, are the reason why Cryptic started to have such a **** time trying to get things done.

Also, JE has a bug up his rear about F2P wanting to never have a store, but only a subscription bases.
http://www.mmogamer.com/02/25/2008/f...at-gdc08-recap

Time change, people change, JE is past his prime.

And frankly, 4E is different from 3.xE. It probably won't phase DDO what so ever other than there is another MMO out there. It will be business as usual for Turbine, honestly.

jacks concerns are because he feels games with E stores tend to drift into the pay to win category inevitably. I myself am a big fan of the premium style we have here.What Id really love though is them to go a more guild wars route where they sale the inital campaign and core game. as well as the tools for players to make thier own mdules. And then let the devs be able to focus on releasing another pay for expansion every few months of comparble quality to the original campaign as well as some small upgrades to the core game like lvl cap, more classes or prestige classes and races etc. much like the old NWN pc games.

go ahead and hate on jack though Im pretty sure that feeds his egomania more then anything else.

[SirValentine]

it's Forgotten Realms! Many of us could care less about Eberon.

I'm not enthusiastic about Eberron, but Forgotten Realms is supposed to be better?

And, like they said, it's 4E. That's a complete deal-breaker for me. I'd take up WoW first. Or, more likely, go back to playing single-player strategy games.

[herzkos]

That about sums it up...

"You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig..." ~ Old farmer's saying...

yahhh, but maybe . . . just maybe, it's a sexxxy pig!!!1111!11111111!!!!!!!11


/takes cover.