Master Assassin: an int based build

[Miahoo]

~Snip~

Again, I'm 100% agree.

People run different content with different groups. Anyone should create his toon for his purpose and to have fun with.

[domandi]

Don't forget that the emg is a +10 weapon with high enough int. That alone makes up for 10 str over a GS weapon(for example) I am pretty sure he wouldn't attempt this w/o the emg, the to hit would be too hard.

[Mellkor]

I do not have to hit issues with this toon. There are only a few mobs in the game I cant hit on a 2 as equipped above (as long as I do not have aggro). When fighting those, after I use improved destruct or action boost, and/or divine power clickies, I can hit those on a 2 as well. So I am not missing 20% more than you, LOL, I am hitting the SAME as you. As for hitting when I have aggro, I am not too bad in that department, however I am not concerned at all about to hit when I have aggro. If I were I would be a fighter or barb.

As for no power attack, it would only add a very small percentage of total damage I am already doing. For this build (or any TWF build that relies heavily on sneak attack damage, IMO) it is not missed at all. For folks that really want it, it can easily be fit in.

[.Revenga.]

I do not have to hit issues with this toon. There are only a few mobs in the game I cant hit on a 2 as equipped above (as long as I do not have aggro). When fighting those, after I use improved destruct or action boost, and/or divine power clickies, I can hit those on a 2 as well. So I am not missing 20% more than you, LOL, I am hitting the SAME as you. As for hitting when I have aggro, I am not too bad in that department, however I am not concerned at all about to hit when I have aggro. If I were I would be a fighter or barb.

As for no power attack, it would only add a very small percentage of total damage I am already doing. For this build (or any TWF build that relies heavily on sneak attack damage, IMO) it is not missed at all. For folks that really want it, it can easily be fit in.

You state you have a to hit of +54 to hit on first swing. I'm simply stating that that's insufficient in quests where AC goes up to 65+ ( esp. to assasinate - no BAB bonus - destruction debuff not likely). I admit that it's only a limited part of end game content ( epic desert mostly), but that's what i do want to run.

[Mellkor]

The only mobs I have issues with in epic desert are the ones I cant assassinate anyway (undead and golums). All others are hittable on a 2.

I respect your viewpoint, but as someone who has done str based rogues (and done it well), I by far find int based a lot more useful and fun to play. Str based is concordant to the rogues inherent strengths, while int based fortifies and magnifies the rogues inherent strengths.

If you are having fun with your str based, have at it. If you are saying what you are saying without the experience of an int based, well, then shame on you!

[Ebforest60]

I'm trying to get the most out of my 2nd life Halfling Rogue (finally back to 20) using the same ideas in this thread. The problem I'm finding with Halfling is that I can get my DEX much higher than STR much more easily, resulting in a higher tohit bonus if I go finesse. If it is viable I'd rather go STR.

I do not have EMG yet, if it matters.

So this is my proposed final build at 20. I plan to stay at 20 and play around in epics with some raiding here and there. My concerns are ToHit and Assassinate DC. Any thoughts and feedback are appreciated.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 264
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 17
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    18
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         16                    24
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                     7
Bluff                -1                    13
Concentration         2                     6
Diplomacy            -1                     3
Disable Device        n/a                  n/a
Haggle               -1                     3
Heal                 -1                     3
Hide                  2                    19
Intimidate           -1                     3
Jump                  2                     9
Listen               -1                     5
Move Silently         2                    17
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                3                    10
Search                3                    10
Spot                 -1                     3
Swim                  2                     7
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Sneak of Shadows


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

[kendo]

interesting build Mellkor but the biggest question I have is how you leveled your guy up to 20. did you go with a more typical strength build until you got the pair of EMG's and other gear and then LR? or does it work out okay to build a new character from scratch going with INT instead of STR?

thanks again for presenting alternate ideas, good food for thought whether people agree or disagree

[Mellkor]

I leveled up as an int based just to be a rebel. It worked out great! You can assassinate starting at level 12 (I think), so I would say do whatever until lev 12 and then spec/gear up for assassinates.

EMG's are certainly a big part of what makes this build work so well at end game, but until then, you will do just fine with high to hit weapons such as +5 greater banes, or greensteel starting at level 12 is also an excellent and viable choice, especially radiance II. Maximizing to hit is more important than maximizing damage on this build. That said, DPS will still be grreat, and not to far off a pure ****** build anyway.

[miguelxp]

Mellkor, passing to say that I'll Tr and use Helf in My Ture Scorpion Wraith build, I mean, I'll merge your build with mine and use my personal touch, I already have all gear and playing drow for more than 2 years I believe its time to upgrade him, I would like to thank you an Wax to encourage me to do it, not with words but with great ideas. But I really hope someday they give some love to Drows.

[kendo]

Mellkor, passing to say that I'll Tr and use Helf in My Ture Scorpion Wraith build, I mean, I'll merge your build with mine and use my personal touch, I already have all gear and playing drow for more than 2 years I believe its time to upgrade him, I would like to thank you an Wax to encourage me to do it, not with words but with great ideas. But I really hope someday they give some love to Drows.

with the new expansion focusing so much on the Drow, I hope it gives them a reason to review the player side of things and maybe give us some long overdue improvements.

[bhgiant]

with the new expansion focusing so much on the Drow, I hope it gives them a reason to review the player side of things and maybe give us some long overdue improvements.

I would love some Drow love. And I'm not just saying that because both my mains are Drow .

I think there is going to be a major shift in the game. The storm is coming, and I'm going to enjoy the ride . If anyone wants some Soul Gems: Elf, let me know.

But on topic, I don't think one has to worry TOO much about to-hit if you go INT with the rogue, especially if you go human or helf. If you start missing, pop an attack bonus boost. There are plenty of buffs and improve the to-hit as well, it never should be an issue. With his build, he's only losing out on 7 STR (+3-4 to-hit/dmg). Just craft an attack bonus +2/+4 until you get to level 20 and then equip your eMG. Problem solved.

Personally, I'm looking forward to TRing into INT based though I think I may wait until the new prestiges/epic levels come out.

[Splotto]

Hello:

I am getting ready to TR my toon into a rogue. I am just passing through to get my PL and I will TR at 20 into my next life. My goal with the rogue life is just to make sure I can find, survive and disable all the traps I encounter as well as being able to do adequate DPS.

I like the sound of this build and I was thinking of trying it for this life.

From your description it sounds like it can do what I need. Do you see any impediment to leveling this build to 20 if I am not planning on grinding the gear at the end? I already have a LitII and RadII khopeshs that I will use as well as plenty of gear from my previous lives.

Thanks

[Mellkor]

Hello:

I am getting ready to TR my toon into a rogue. I am just passing through to get my PL and I will TR at 20 into my next life. My goal with the rogue life is just to make sure I can find, survive and disable all the traps I encounter as well as being able to do adequate DPS.

I like the sound of this build and I was thinking of trying it for this life.

From your description it sounds like it can do what I need. Do you see any impediment to leveling this build to 20 if I am not planning on grinding the gear at the end? I already have a LitII and RadII khopeshs that I will use as well as plenty of gear from my previous lives.

Thanks

I do not see any impediment at all, since most of the gear is minimum lev 20. I had a blast leveling him! You can get assassinate at lev 12, once you get that this build is a lot of fun! It sounds like you have leveling gear covered well enough.

[Splotto]

I do not see any impediment at all, since most of the gear is minimum lev 20. I had a blast leveling him! You can get assassinate at lev 12, once you get that this build is a lot of fun! It sounds like you have leveling gear covered well enough.

Thanks for the reply.

[kendo]

Posting this build upon request.


Stats: start / end game

STR 14 / 32
DEX 14 / 26
CON 14 / 32
INT 18 / 42 (18 base, +5 level ups, +6 item, +3 exceptional, +4 tome, +2 capstone, +2 ship, +1 Helf dilli enhancement, +1 human versatility)
WIS 8 / 19
CHA 8 / 22

trying out this build as it appeals to my play style but wondering if it wouldn't be better to tweak your starting stats if you are not already level 18 - 20

with a starting stat of 14 in dex, you cannot get ITWF until 12 after your +3 tome kicks in at 11. that means your main attack feats are taken:

12 - ITWF
15 - improved crit
18 - GTWF

if you started with 15 DEX, then you should be able to go with

9 - ITWF
12 - improved crit
15 - GTWF
18 - Hamstring

at 18 or above, you could lesser reincarnate to 14 DEX and have all your feats. but would think for leveling from 12 to 18, the second sequence of feats would make it easier.

am I overlooking something?? I leveled up to 12 with more of a STR/DEX build and looking to switch over to give this a try but concerned about not having improved crit until 15 as that is a big increase in your damage output

thanks for any advice or suggestions

[Mellkor]

Good point.

I don't remember exactly how I leveled him up in regards to feats. I think I did take improved crit late. I don't think it is much of an issue since (at least for me) I tend to blow thru levels 1-18 anyway, so taking that feat late didnt really matter much.



That said, I think your way would be better for folks who take their time to stop and smell the roses, so to speak.

-JR

[Astars]

Nice build, but i'll stay str based... Rad 2 is too important (and needs str or *shudders* dex to handle properly)

As for equipment:
I went for the litany...the +1 to stats is too good to miss out on (placed +2 int on the rad2)
epic illusionist robe (+7 int base item and the exceptional will save is also nice for a rog) - but beware!!! you'll need a cosmetic armor kit with the robe or you'll be sick after a game session
Epic stalker ring for the seeker and exceptional sneak attack
Epic hyena claw necklace for +7 con and toughness

38 str with ship buffs and 44DC on assassination (no yugo/store pots)
i recommend grabbing some fighter past lives for rogues...the to-hit really helps
Currently i'm also using the active fighter PL feat clicky in addition to Divine power clickies
Major fights are usually a bit messy and the str build allows for more flexibility. e.g. in eda i usually land a double kill on the assassination, but the the fight gets too chaotic to keep sneak attack up all the time. Using EMG and rad 2 with enough str/to-hit you don't get dependent on others to grab/keep the aggro but you can wade in, blind and then melee down with sneak attack. this is esp valuable if the improved deception on the EMG switches the aggro. Bluff is too slow, imo, in a fast and wild epic situation to work reliably (esp if the devil/orthon decides to teleport around while you bluff)

So, pure int rogues are nice one-trick ponies, but imo not well suited for high speed epic rushing groups.

My 2 c

Cheers

Ast

[Mellkor]

I find this build and play-style performs very well in "high speed epic rushing groups" with a RAD II. Blind + paralyzed is a great combo when you can't avoid aggro. But I still easily get in plenty of assassinates in those type of quests. Having played str builds, I still think INT based is a much better way to go, for many reasons already discussed, IMO. If anything, STR based ****** builds deserve to be called "one trick ponies" much more than INT based. But thanks for your input.

[SableShadow]

So, pure int rogues are nice one-trick ponies, but imo not well suited for high speed epic rushing groups.

Look at his build.

Yes, he's int based, but he didn't dump str/con ... his 32 str measures up well to your 38, plus he's running eFighting Leathers for a +4 to hit bump.

He lands hits, they leave a mark ... this isn't one of those Assassin builds that can only click one-button every few seconds, he can scrap.

It isn't my cup of tea, but no one who's seen Ungoliant mow things down in an eDA thinks he's one-trick anything.

[Shade_z]

Do rogues, get kukri proficiency for free? I can't see it listed on the Compendium.