Master Assassin: an int based build

[Mellkor]

I updated my OP for U23. Below is my current picks for U23 equipment, subject to change, of course.

ENDGAME gear: (Lev 28 as of U23):


Head- Mythic Muffled Veneer: (Move +20, Hide +20, Spot +20, Double Strike +9%, +2 Exceptional Reflex Save, Assassinate +4, YELLOW SLOT: +8 CON, GREEN SLOT: +2 insight CON).

Neck- Shield of Ardent: (+18 PRR, Smoke Screen, Fear Immunity, Healing Amp +30%, BLUE SLOT: ???, GREEN SLOT: ???).

Trinket- Epic Litney of the Dead: (+2 to all stats, GREEN SLOT: ???, BLUE SLOT: Good Luck +2). AND/OR Manual of Stealthy Pilfering: (Good Luck +3, Dex Skills +6, Int Skills +6, UMD +5, Open Locks +20, Disabe Devicen +20, GREEN SLOT: ???).

Cloak- Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (+5 exceptional seeker, 8% dodge, attack +4, diversion 20%). This is borderline useful post U23. Good place for greensteel HP/displacement clickie.

Belt- Epic Belt of Thoughtful Remeberence: (CON +11, Resist +11, Dodge +11%, Greater Regenerate, BLUE SLOT: +2 insight CHA, GREEN SLOT:???).

Ring 1- Ring of Deceit: (+20 to bluff, diplo, haggle, +8 CHA, improved deception, YELLOW SLOT:vitality +20, COLORLESS SLOT: +2 insight WIS).

Ring 2- Consuming Darkness: (Seeker XII, GREEN SLOT: ???).

Hands- Gloves of the Master Illusionist: (INT +11, some useless stuff, YELLOW SLOT: Globe of Imperial Blood).

Feet- EE Sure Footed Boots: (Mobility Feat (+2 to dodge and dodge cap), Balance +20, GREEN SLOT: protection +8).

Bracers- Epic Ethereal Bracers: DEX +11, Ghostly, Deadly 10, Feather Fall, GREEN SLOT: ???, BLUE SLOT: +2 insight DEX).

Eyes- EE Intricate Field Optics: (+3 insight INT, True Seeing, Spot +20, YELLOW SLOT: +8 WIS, GREEN SLOT: +2 insight STR).

Armour- Thunder Forged Light Armour: Alchemical Armour Defense ritual, Fortification 130%, Shadow Killer, From the Shadows, Ghostly, BLUE SLOT: +2 armored agility, GREEN SLOT: Natural Armour +8).

Quiver- Epic Quiver of Alacrity.

Main Hand: Thunderforged Dagger with Touch of Flames, Dragons Edge, Mortal Fear, SLOTS: Caustic Acid, Search +15.

Off Hand: Thunderforged Dagger with Blinding Fear, Paralyzing Fear, Mortal Fear, SLOTS: Caustic Acid, Tumble +15


For DR bypassers, 2 Celestia's works on almost everything needing bypassers. I also carry a good set of portal beaters.

[Montrose]

Is there any need to keep Weapon Finesse on this build? Looks like a combination of Harper (INT to hit) and Assassin (INT to damage) makes Finesse obsolete.

[Miow]

Is there any need to keep Weapon Finesse on this build? Looks like a combination of Harper (INT to hit) and Assassin (INT to damage) makes Finesse obsolete.

I didn't take it on mine

[Mellkor]

Is there any need to keep Weapon Finesse on this build? Looks like a combination of Harper (INT to hit) and Assassin (INT to damage) makes Finesse obsolete.

Yep, No need for weapon finesse anymore

Harper has both int to hit AND int to damage with ALL weapons.

-JR

[CThruTheEgo]

Just an fyi, you're stats don't add up. In the starting stats section, you've spent 39 points. Then for your final stats, you've spent 37 points for the base stats.

Also, with the epic belt of thoughtful remembrance you can get 24% dodge including shadow charges (which are easy to maintain), so the dodge feat really only grants 1% dodge, but you also gain dodge on sneak attacks. That's why I dropped dodge on my build.

[Mellkor]

Just an fyi, you're stats don't add up. In the starting stats section, you've spent 39 points. Then for your final stats, you've spent 37 points for the base stats.

Also, with the epic belt of thoughtful remembrance you can get 24% dodge including shadow charges (which are easy to maintain), so the dodge feat really only grants 1% dodge, but you also gain dodge on sneak attacks. That's why I dropped dodge on my build.

I will figure it out when I TR I guess.

As for Dodge, I like having a standing 22% dodge to start with. With 7 shadow charges that often drop down to 5 or 4, I like having that cushion to maintain 27% cap at all times (soon to be 30%). Relying on short duration buffs to get you to dodge cap all the time is not a good thing IMO. IMO it is better to be within your dodge cap with just 4 or 5 shadow charges. I prefer not maintaining short duration buffs, for me it works better. I don't see why you say dodge grants 1% when it, in fact, provides 3%.

I edited the stats in the OP to what I THINK it may be let me know if its right now.

[Mellkor]

Edited the OP with the below slightly different gear list:

Added the Epic Fanged Gloves which has 2 slots on it instead of one on the gloves of the master illusionist.
I also filled in the slots I wasn't using with resist 40 topazes. These can alternatively be replaced with skill of whatever diamonds or whatever you like. Having all 5 resist 40 topazes ain't bad either.
I added fear immunity because the fear immunity on GH clickys is bugged right now in the new quests. You get feared even if you have an active GH on you.


ENDGAME gear: (Lev 28 as of U23):


Head- Mythic Muffled Veneer: (Move +20, Hide +20, Spot +20, Double Strike +9%, +2 Exceptional Reflex Save, Assassinate +4, BLUE SLOT: +40 Hit Points, GREEN SLOT: +2 insight CON).

Neck- Shield of Ardent: (+18 PRR, Smoke Screen, Fear Immunity, Healing Amp +30%, YELLOW SLOT: Blind immunity or some skill +15, GREEN SLOT: Resist Lightning 40).

Trinket- Epic Litney of the Dead: (+2 to all stats, GREEN SLOT:STR +8, BLUE SLOT: Good Luck +2). AND/OR Manual of Stealthy Pilfering: (Good Luck +3, Dex Skills +6, Int Skills +6, UMD +5, Open Locks +20, Disabe Devicen +20, GREEN SLOT: STR +8).

Cloak- Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (+5 exceptional seeker, 8% dodge, attack +4, diversion 20%). This is borderline useful post U23. Good place for greensteel HP/displacement clickie.

Belt- Epic Belt of Thoughtful Remeberence: (CON +11, Resist +11, Dodge +11%, Greater Regenerate, BLUE SLOT: +8 WIS, GREEN SLOT:Resist Acid 40).

Ring 1- Ring of Deceit: (+20 to bluff, diplo, haggle, +8 CHA, improved deception, YELLOW SLOT:vitality +20, COLORLESS SLOT: +2 insight WIS).

Ring 2- Consuming Darkness: (Seeker XII, GREEN SLOT: Resist Fire 40).

Hands- Epic Fanged Gloves: (INT +11, Blurry, some useless stuff, YELLOW SLOT: Globe of Imperial Blood, GREEN SLOT: Resist Cold 40).

Feet- EE Sure Footed Boots: (Mobility Feat (+2 to dodge and dodge cap), Balance +20, GREEN SLOT: protection +8).

Bracers- Epic Ethereal Bracers: DEX +11, Ghostly, Deadly 10, Feather Fall, GREEN SLOT: Resist Sonic 40, BLUE SLOT: +2 insight DEX).

Eyes- EE Intricate Field Optics: (+3 insight INT, True Seeing, Spot +20, YELLOW SLOT: +Resist Sonic 40, GREEN SLOT: +2 Rear Immunity).

Armour- Thunder Forged Light Armour: Alchemical Armour Defense ritual, Fortification 130%, Shadow Killer, From the Shadows, Ghostly, BLUE SLOT: +2 armored agility, GREEN SLOT: Natural Armour +8).

Quiver- Epic Quiver of Alacrity.

Main Hand: Thunderforged Dagger with Touch of Flames, Dragons Edge, Mortal Fear, SLOTS: Caustic Acid, Search +15.

Off Hand: Thunderforged Dagger with Blinding Fear, Paralyzing Fear, Mortal Fear, SLOTS: Caustic Acid, Tumble +15


For DR bypassers, 2 Celestia's works on almost everything needing bypassers. I also carry a good set of portal beaters.

[Mellkor]

I am also finding self healing without wand and scroll mastery to be a real PIA, even with healing amp. I am thinking of trying out a Blade Forged version of this build with the self reconstruct SLA, and level drain immunity might be the way to go.

[CThruTheEgo]

I am also finding self healing without wand and scroll mastery to be a real PIA, even with healing amp.

I am finding the same. I'm going to twist cocoon and see how that works out.

[Mellkor]

I forgot to mention in the above post about gear.

It is important to put good luck +2 in the blue slot of the Liteny, and the same thing in the green slot of the Epic Liteney and the Manual of Stealth Pilfering. If you do this, the only thing that changes when you swap between them is +2 to all stats. Saves and skills stay the same (except for Disable Device and Open Locks). The +3 Luck on the Manual offsets the +2 to all stats on the Liteny for saves and all other skills. Nice setup this way.

[nokowi]

Great great gear choices!

It looks like the current Hassan build ended up with much the same gear as you, so take that as a compliment to your choices. My only suggestion is to swap in the Ring of Avithoul (+2 exceptional Wis) to gain SA dmg (over ring of deceit).

If readers are interested, I have some build choices that allow you to grab Scroll Healing quite easily, mostly because I was willing to lower my assassinate DC and keep Improved Trapping in my build (see signature). I also opted for the Mythic Minos for the +20% extra fort and the +45 vitality. In my build the +1 extra con (from +3 con item) is also worth an extra 28 HP.

I noticed you are not using agony (no improved deception weapon). I will do some DPS calc's to see if that is higher dps choice and report back.

I should have my end game stats finalized in the next week. I plan to show comparable end game stats/dps for the Nokowi/Hassam/Melkor builds (First Life and Uber Completionist).

[nokowi]

Just an fyi, you're stats don't add up. In the starting stats section, you've spent 39 points. Then for your final stats, you've spent 37 points for the base stats.

Also, with the epic belt of thoughtful remembrance you can get 24% dodge including shadow charges (which are easy to maintain), so the dodge feat really only grants 1% dodge, but you also gain dodge on sneak attacks. That's why I dropped dodge on my build.

Max Dodge is 19% + 2% (augment) +2% (guild) + 2%(mobility from boots) + 0 to 6%(Lithe).

I believe Dodge would be 11% (belt) +6% (rogue) + 2% (boots) + 3% (dodge feat) + 0 to 7 % (shadow charges)

Assuming you take the Shadowdancer line up to Shadow Form
1 rank in Lithe: Dodge = 22% to 25% with a max of 25% (can use 3 shadow charges) you will have at least 3 shadow charges with Lithe 1
2 ranks in Lithe: Dodge = 22% to 27% with a max of 27% (can use 5 shadow charges) you will have at least 4 shadow charges with Lithe 2
3 ranks in Lithe: Dodge = 22% to 29% with a max of 29% (can use 7 shadow charges) you will have at least 5 shadow charges with Lithe 3

Some testing has shown that your dodge score quickly rises to max through Nimbleness. A rogue (that is not assassinating) attacks a mob already in combat, which gives you enough time to max out dodge (through Nimbleness) before being attacked. I also don't recommend the dodge feat.

[Mellkor]

Max Dodge is 19% + 2% (augment) +2% (guild) + 2%(mobility from boots) + 0 to 6%(Lithe).

I believe Dodge would be 11% (belt) +6% (rogue) + 2% (boots) + 3% (dodge feat) + 0 to 7 % (shadow charges)

Assuming you take the Shadowdancer line up to Shadow Form
1 rank in Lithe: Dodge = 22% to 25% with a max of 25% (can use 3 shadow charges) you will have at least 3 shadow charges with Lithe 1
2 ranks in Lithe: Dodge = 22% to 27% with a max of 27% (can use 5 shadow charges) you will have at least 4 shadow charges with Lithe 2
3 ranks in Lithe: Dodge = 22% to 29% with a max of 29% (can use 7 shadow charges) you will have at least 5 shadow charges with Lithe 3

Some testing has shown that your dodge score quickly rises to max through Nimbleness. A rogue (that is not assassinating) attacks a mob already in combat, which gives you enough time to max out dodge (through Nimbleness) before being attacked. I also don't recommend the dodge feat.

I still prefer dodge as high as I can get it relying only on shadow charges, as it is useful many times when you are not in combat enough to keep it up. Max for me is 30% with past lives factored in. Thats nearly 1 in 3 attacks dodged vs ~ 1 in 5 much of the time for folks who rely on nimbleness and other temporary short duration methods for keeping dodge up. For this reason I recommend THE dodge feat and the boots with mobility on them (which add 2 to your dodge cap and dodge %!).

[Mellkor]

Great great gear choices!

...I noticed you are not using agony (no improved deception weapon). I will do some DPS calc's to see if that is higher dps choice and report back....

All I can say is that TF dagger set is far superior to having agony + TF. It seems like around 30 % better (just empirical observation). The overwhelming difference is Mortal Fear procing more often I think. I dont really notice any difference not having improved decep on the weapon. I get sneak attacks just as fast as ever without agony it seems. /shrug

[nokowi]

I still prefer dodge as high as I can get it, as it is useful many times when you are not in combat enough to keep it up. Max for me is 30% with past lives factored in. Thats nearly 1 in 3 attacks dodged vs ~ 1 in 5 much of the time for folks who rely on nimbleness and other temporary short duration methods for keeping dodge up. For this reason I recommend THE dodge feat and the boots with mobility on them (which add 2 to your dodge cap and dodge %!).

I was just playing around with Dodge and my Dodge caps at a max of 25% no matter what I do with Lithe (it does add 2% max dodge per rank up to 25%). The surefooted boots add 2% dodge (and 2% max dodge) but also max out at 25%. The 2% guild buff does raise max dodge by 2% above this cap to 27%.

Can you explain how you are getting 30% dodge?

FYI: I have 23% standing dodge (11 item) + (6 rogue) + (3 Shadar Kai PL) + (3 artifact), so this was easy to test. (2 ranks in Lithe) or (1 rank in Lithe plus Surefooted boots) caps me at 27% (with 2% maxdodge increase from guild buff).

Putting on armor (max dex 19) +2(augment) + 6(lithe) +2(mobility) +2(guild) still results in 27% max.

[Mellkor]

3 shardi ki past lives adds 3%

Is your armour at 30% max dex bonus?

[nokowi]

All I can say is that TF dagger set is far superior to having agony + TF. It seems like around 30 % better (just empirical observation). The overwhelming difference is Mortal Fear procing more often I think. I dont really notice any difference not having improved decep on the weapon. I get sneak attacks just as fast as ever without agony it seems. /shrug

I would guess you are correct. You get most of the benefit from a single improved deception item because you usually get another deception proc during the 4 second bluff proc --> even with 1 improved deception (10% chance per hit with ~3 attacks per second).

[nokowi]

3 shardi ki past lives adds 3%

Is your armour at 30% max dex bonus?

My armor should be at 31% (19 +2 +6 +2 +2)=31% as listed above.

Shadar Kai was in my dodge bonus (it doesn't add to max)

[brzytki]

I wouldn't and i don't take Dodge feat as well. +3% more standing dodge might look attractive at first, particularly if you are far from reaching your dodge cap (like 10% dodge before the feat), but it really isn't worth a feat slot on a rogue, even more so if you are running in SD.

Apart from the nimbleness procs and shadow charges that can easily cap your dodge, you have to take a look at the bigger picture. If your only source of miss chance is Dodge, then be my guest and take the feat. But couple it with 25% Incorporeality and Blur/Displacement and suddenly +3% more standing Dodge is meh.

1-(1-Dodge)*(1-Incorp)*(1-Conceal) = total miss chance
1-0,75 = 0,25
1-0,75*0,75 = 0,4375
1-0,75*0,75*0,8 = 1-0,45 = 0,55
1-0,75*0,75*0,5 = 1-0,2813 = 0,7187

1-0,74 = 0,26
1-0,74*0,75 = 1-0,555 = 0,445
1-0,74*0,75*0,8 = 1-0,444 = 0,556
1-0,74*0,75*0,5 = 1-0,2775 = 0,7225

As you can see, the more miss chance sources you pile up on you character, the less you'll get for an additional 1 percentage of Dodge. You gain the most from the Dodge feat if you don't have any other miss chance sources and you can't reach your dodge cap. Since a rogue in SD can easily not only cap their dodge but also has two other sources of miss chance, taking Dodge feat is rather pointless.

This whole discussion made me curious about stacking of Elusive Target feat. I wonder if it's multiplicative or additive. Knowing Turbine though, I'd say multiplicative, making it a rather overhyped feat for a character with various miss chance sources.

[nokowi]

I wouldn't and i don't take Dodge feat as well. +3% more standing dodge might look attractive at first, particularly if you are far from reaching your dodge cap (like 10% dodge before the feat), but it really isn't worth a feat slot on a rogue, even more so if you are running in SD.

Apart from the nimbleness procs and shadow charges that can easily cap your dodge, you have to take a look at the bigger picture. If your only source of miss chance is Dodge, then be my guest and take the feat. But couple it with 25% Incorporeality and Blur/Displacement and suddenly +3% more standing Dodge is meh.

1-(1-Dodge)*(1-Incorp)*(1-Conceal) = total miss chance
1-0,75 = 0,25
1-0,75*0,75 = 0,4375
1-0,75*0,75*0,8 = 1-0,45 = 0,55
1-0,75*0,75*0,5 = 1-0,2813 = 0,7187

1-0,74 = 0,26
1-0,74*0,75 = 1-0,555 = 0,445
1-0,74*0,75*0,8 = 1-0,444 = 0,556
1-0,74*0,75*0,5 = 1-0,2775 = 0,7225

As you can see, the more miss chance sources you pile up on you character, the less you'll get for an additional 1 percentage of Dodge. You gain the most from the Dodge feat if you don't have any other miss chance sources and you can't reach your dodge cap. Since a rogue in SD can easily not only cap their dodge but also has two other sources of miss chance, taking Dodge feat is rather pointless.

This whole discussion made me curious about stacking of Elusive Target feat. I wonder if it's multiplicative or additive. Knowing Turbine though, I'd say multiplicative, making it a rather overhyped feat for a character with various miss chance sources.

The text says it happens after all other checks. In other words, if you have a 50% chance of being hit, Elusive target will help you 0.50*(1/20)=2.5% of the time. While this is nothing great (say compared to Perfect TWF), there aren't many good options for level 28 destiny feat.

I have looked into the idea of instead choosing 20% positive spellpower, but I am at 250+ positive spellpower already, so this would only be 8% extra healing from rejuvination cocoon. I think this would be about 35-40 extra HP from each cocoon healing. (5 ticks with 7-8 extra HP each).