Ranger 12/Rogue 7/Monk 1

[Intensik]

Hey, so I'm almost at that point where I want to TR this character, but I've been having trouble deciding what to make. This life was Paladin, but anyway. Me and my friend have mostly duoed to this level (16 atm) and have done everything on elite together, although we sometimes find groups for the quests that we just can't do, or if we are bored. I am currently using a Solar Phoenix build and he was trying Artificer, and we've done pretty well and haven't had much trouble. Anyway, I was thinking of a Tempest II, Assassin I ranger, with TWF (probably khopeshes, haven't decided) and one level of monk for the bonus AC. Also, I would like to be able to do traps. Is this a viable build? Also, any help with feats I would take and level order would be much appreciated. Could use help making a build like this, or knowing what I should change to make it better.

Thanks in advance

[wax_on_wax_off]

One of my favourite builds uses that level split: The Prodigy.

Unarmed is the key here as you end up getting better return on your sneak attack and 100% offhand proc at higher gear levels than what you would with khopesh. Having Khopesh proficiency is a totally great idea though and just swap between them until you have top tier damage setup (alchemic wraps + 2*ToD rings for example) at which point you can swap khopesh proficiency for something else.

No reason that between 7 rogue levels and 12 ranger (which gets 6 skill points/level) that you can't max search and disable to be able to get any trap in the game (with some gear).

[Intensik]

Thanks for the response, I saw that build earlier today, and I think it looks pretty good. Is halfling necessary? I was leaning towards Human, but might change it depending on what would work better.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Human is a perfectly fine choice as versatility: damage is a huge DPS boost (with no activation cost as it can be activated simultaneously with haste boost).

This also gets you +1 strength (adaptability), +1 feat (khopesh?) and more skill points (lower starting int?).

[Intensik]

I was thinking I could go Human for the extra feat and strength enhancement. Also, what about if I get 13 intelligence for CE?

[wax_on_wax_off]

I was thinking I could go Human for the extra feat and strength enhancement. Also, what about if I get 13 intelligence for CE?

What are your feats looking like?

Dodge, Toughness, Mobility, Spring Attack, Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons, Extend Spell, Stunning Blow according to The Prodigy build.

However, stunning fist has got a massive boost since that build was written. Improved Sunder has as well. I'd suggest to swap extend spell and use the human bonus feat for these 2 feats. These feats are better than CE.

Edit: 3000th post! Oh god I need a life.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Just to add, going half-elf and taking fighter dilettante for +2 on your stunning fist/blow/sunder and +1 strength. You lose 1 feat this way though; you could drop IC:B or change the level split to 12 ranger, 6 rogue, 2 monk. 2 monk also gives you +1 wisdom (for stunning fist) making it a good adjustment, imo.

If you can stand looking like a ken doll it might be worth considering.

Oh yeah, I forgot power attack in that above list but The Prodigy has that feat too so everything else stays the same.

Maybe someone would give you a cookie for qualifying for evasion 3 different ways?

[grodon9999]

Ranger 12/rogue 7 is a FANTASTIC combination.

But regarding un-armed versus weapons . . . and this is going off AO's DPS calc so take it with a grain of salt . . . With DR-breaking Holy of Greater bane wraps and Holyburst/Shocking burst ToD rings you will out-DPS khopesh at 50% or more fort. At 0% fort (trash) rapiers/khopesh will come ahead (+5 Holy of greater bane, ravager and shintao sets, equal STR).

[AtomicMew]

For this split, seems like horc would be better for extra action boosts and higher STR. Your base damage isn't very high, so human versatility won't do as much as it would for, say, a barb or a pure monk.

[grodon9999]

For this split, seems like horc would be better for extra action boosts and higher STR. Your base damage isn't very high, so human versatility won't do as much as it would for, say, a barb or a pure monk.

Human for the HV boosts. Racial healing amp, more HP. FTW

Much of the extra DPS a horc brings to the table is from the Power-attack enhancements which on a build that's to-hit starved is simply not a good idea. And against FEs a human's base damage will be more than enough to see a huge DPS increase.

Keep in mind . . . HV damage boost affects sneak-attack as well.

[Intensik]

Finally home. First I'd like to say congrats on your 3000th post :P. Anyway, I was actually considering half-elf. I still haven't decided which weapon I'll be using, so I'm not really sure of the feats yet. I probably won't go half-orc, but I don't really know yet. Along with the Fighter Dilettante or however it's spelled, you also get a 2nd bluff which could be helpful at times.

Would it be worth it to lose 7 rogue for 2 monk, and miss out on all that sneak attack damage?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Finally home. First I'd like to say congrats on your 3000th post :P. Anyway, I was actually considering half-elf. I still haven't decided which weapon I'll be using, so I'm not really sure of the feats yet. I probably won't go half-orc, but I don't really know yet. Along with the Fighter Dilettante or however it's spelled, you also get a 2nd bluff which could be helpful at times.

Would it be worth it to lose 7 rogue for 2 monk, and miss out on all that sneak attack damage?

Well, it's 1d6+3 sneak attack and 5% less on haste boost.

You gain +1 strength (fighter dilettante), +1 wisdom, +2 tactics. If DPS is your only concern then stick with 7 rogue but if the tactics and AC interests you then go with 2 monk. Unfortunately I don't see any other feat that can be dropped.

[Intensik]

If I went 2 monk, I would have to be centered to gain the extra AC instead of going just 1 monk, if I'm right. This means that I must stick to only handwraps as a weapon, and I'm still not sure which weapon would be better, but this could be done.

edit: This might give me a chance to use my Vampiric Stonedust Handwraps from the lordsmarch chain for a bit :P

[AtomicMew]

Human for the HV boosts. Racial healing amp, more HP. FTW

Much of the extra DPS a horc brings to the table is from the Power-attack enhancements which on a build that's to-hit starved is simply not a good idea. And against FEs a human's base damage will be more than enough to see a huge DPS increase.

Keep in mind . . . HV damage boost affects sneak-attack as well.

Horc is clearly better in the long term, with 3+ more haste boosts and more non-boosted DPS. With even non-LOB raids taking as long as ~15 minutes of pure beatdown, you're going to have to be more convincing to say that human does more DPS, generally. With kensai set, human would have only 3.5 minutes of haste boost. Horc has 5 minutes. Also:

-Horc gets +4-ish damage per hit with no loss of AB thanks to higher STR/PA enhancements
-Boss fortification means less SA/less damage boost due to HV

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I'm not convinced.

[wax_on_wax_off]

If I went 2 monk, I would have to be centered to gain the extra AC instead of going just 1 monk, if I'm right. This means that I must stick to only handwraps as a weapon, and I'm still not sure which weapon would be better, but this could be done.

edit: This might give me a chance to use my Vampiric Stonedust Handwraps from the lordsmarch chain for a bit :P

There is 2 types of centered. Defensively Centered with which you can have any weapon equipped and as long as you're not encumbered or wearing armor/shield you'll get your wisdom bonus to AC. Offensively Centered is using a monk only weapon (which lets you be in stance or use other monk abilities).

Horc is clearly better in the long term in pure long term DPS terms when nothing else matters, with 3+ more haste boosts and more non-boosted DPS. With even non-LOB raids taking as long as ~15 minutes of pure beatdown, you're going to have to be more convincing to say that human does more DPS, generally. With kensai set, human would have only 3.5 minutes of haste boost. Horc has 5 minutes. Also:

-Horc gets +4-ish damage per hit with no loss of AB thanks to higher STR/PA enhancements
-Boss fortification means less SA/less damage boost due to HV

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I'm not convinced.

Helf with fighter dilettante has +2 strength from base compared to horc which has +4. That's only +1 attack/damage difference. Helf has 3.5 minutes of attacking at +20-25% attack speed and doing +25% damage. It'll take quite a while for horc to catch up to that.

Helf brings a lot more to this package as well that Horc doesn't. +2 charisma and intelligence relative to horc means more skill points and better UMD. Healing amp gives an easier time of staying up. Higher HP possible (which will likely be an issue unless already very well geared).

The biggest perk of Helf is +2 DC on stunning fist, stunning blow and improved sunder (+1 to the latter 2 after horc strength). Stunning Fist will be a very potent weapon on this build.

That said, Horc is a solid choice for this build too but I'd wonder if there would be AB issues with PA enhancements.