How many Hitpoints should a Sorcerer Have at 20?

[Targonis]

This mindset that everyone MUST powergame to be able to handle Shroud on hard is pretty sad, considering that you are not looking at a melee here. Seriously, you may have doubts, but a sorcerer is NOT going to be in there as a melee, so this obsession here seems a bit off for a Shroud run. Different raids need different things, it's true, and there are gimped characters vs. decent characters, vs. powergamed characters where every last point of EVERYTHING must be according to a formula.

This is DDO, and players have been INVENTING new ways to build characters and play the game since launch. To require that everyone fit into the same mold is pretty weak.

[Sweyn]

400++

id kick a gimp 280hp fire savant from my shroud also.

Especially on a post U12 hard run

[Ushurak]

I have a capped sorc as well and with NO (zero, none, zilch) toughness I have 400 hp.
Granted my con is a 30 and I have some hp gear.

I am not personally comfortable with low hp on my sorc, but knowing he is not melee and therefore will not be front lining, I am not going to spend more feats and ap than needed.

My only concern with your build is your con.
In the defense of slightly lower con, if you were smart and placed the lacking stat points into dex (reflex) then you may be onto something. Reflex is my weakness and I find myself falling short in this area quite often.

Considering that Harry now spams meteor swarm like a fire spec crack head I would say you may be more survivable than a con/toughness build or at least equivalent.

I also despise the "you must assimilate" mentality though.
I do not reject sound advice, I just reject what sounds spoon fed.

The biggest problem you are going to find may not be that your build is gimped (there is a very real chance that it is an amazingly, survivable build); your biggest issue will be that you are not willing to fit into everyone else's mold because if your toon does work well it slaps their logic in the face. People don't like that even in a fantasy world.

If you find yourself taking alot of damage and the healers having to tote you around alot, then you may want to consider that your build is gimped...but not until you see that happening.

Also, once you start being seen in groups and they see that you can hold your own, you will find that you are more likely to get into groups just because they know you. On the other hand if you die alot and can't contribute because of this fact then your name will also get around and you will not be welcome.

Just use good common logic and you will do fine.

[Lunavera0351]

In general, arcane 450-500hp players have been playing longer, have better gear, know the quests better, are more survivable and are better casters than the 250-275hp ones. It's just more likely that the 250 sorc is a first character whose hand will need to be held, and the 500hp sorc is a multi TR who can probably solo the quest anyway.

It's not ALWAYS the case, not by a long shot, but it's accurate enough of the time that amazing low hp players often get autobooted...and then the 450 replacement is ****. It's a shame.

It is more than possible to be successful with lowish hp. But you don't need to sacrifice any casting ability whatsoever to get over 400hp, so why not do it?

Once again just to answer a already answered question, I have been working on my other characters that have had problems. For one like my bard. I knew I would have problems staying in the front lines as an elf bard, so I have been putting more focus into raising her hp. I have not had a problem with my sorc so I have not been giving her such a focus. Please read before asking questions. Thanks

[goodspeed]

on a 28 point sorc I hold 355hp. I had to start with 16 con, from their I grabbed a +2 tome,

a +6 con item,
I took toughness and took all 3 racial enhancements.
I selected con as my greater adaptability stat.
I bought the shreads for the mino's for an extra 20 hp,
farmed the favor from giant hold for an extra 10 hp

Eventually I'll work on my second greensteel and gain another 45 hp. bringing it to 400.

Now thats unbuffed. If I tack on ship buffs I can get an extra 20 con, and I can also give myself an extra 2 con from rage.

I went for dmg foremost and was able to take all the survival enhancements I needed as well as cap my elements dmg and jack up my secondary element dmg to top. It's really not that hard to get 300 hp even on a starter first life build. All ya gotta do is not flip con and toughness the bird.

[MRMechMan]

Once again just to answer a already answered question, I have been working on my other characters that have had problems. For one like my bard. I knew I would have problems staying in the front lines as an elf bard, so I have been putting more focus into raising her hp. I have not had a problem with my sorc so I have not been giving her such a focus. Please read before asking questions. Thanks

If you don't care about your sorcs hp, that's fine. You can definitely get away with less hp on a sorc than the typical bard, so that is a smart move on your part. The post wasn't 100% directed at you. I was just posting to tell the people that DO care about hp how to improve their totals.

[MRMechMan]

The safe number is somewhere above 450 - it's the "I rolled a 1 on disintegrate and survived" magic number.

If you have less than that, kill casters on sight and don't stop moving. You should do that on a high HP caster too, but the melee start crying about not being able to hit the mobs, so you stop and shield block every once in a while.

This. With any less than around that magic number-which is spot on-1s (and sometimes 2-5s or higher, epic disints can hvae save DC of 40+) will kill you outright. This is about the spikiest damage out there and the difference in survivability from 400hp to 500+hp is very noticable. Every extra chunk of hp whether from augments, guild buffs, exp con, etc play a huge part in those situations.

[Isharah]

CHA-build fleshies can go up to 500+.

Despite this, I seldom see arcanes running around in the 500s range unless they are warforged or one of those CON-builds.

Buffed HP at 420+ is safe for pretty much any raid in the game, assuming you are not going to tank.

If you do not plan to run epic raids or the high-level raids on elite, 350+ (buffed) is a safe number.

[morticianjohn]

Had a 17 sorc join my shroud today with 126 HP. I asked the group for donations and by the time he zoned into the quest he had ~250 and after rage and other party buffs he was sitting at 280. Anything lower than this for a lvl 17 means not only did you not prioritize HP, you also avoided/ignored HP options at times.

[JeisonBlade]

I have a capped first life warforged robosorc that runs around with 512 with just Rage spell and ship buff (477 standing HP)

starting CON of 16
+2 tome
+6 from Quorforged Docent
+2 from ship buff
+2 from racial enhancements

+30 from Racial Toughness III (I could fit IV for an extra +10 but I like his current setup so *shrug*)
+40 Superior False life from his Quorforged Docent of Battle
+20 Toughness from his Quorforged Docent of Battle
+15 Guild bonus from a guild augment slot on his cannith crafted Greater Evocation bracers
+10 Pirate Vitality from Greater Stalwart trinket
+10 Draconic Vitality feat from argonnessen favor
+45 Elemental Energy from a Mineral II Greensteel helm
+20 from Rage spell (I try to keep it up on myself constantly, the CON bonus boosts a sorcs tier III power as well)

Pretty sure thats all his bonuses.

note that if your an earth savant you get a bonus (+10 i think?) from your tier II prestige enhancement

[Siro]

280 hp is fine on normal Shroud if you've cannith crafted yourself a 33% fire absorb item.
280 hp is fine on hard Shroud if you've also got fire shield going
280 hp is fine on elite Shroud if you've also got 30 resist and keep recasting fire protection on yourself every time you eat a meteor to the face.

But it won't really help you if you do anything that involves disintegrate coming your way.

[msdesign]

First and foremost, that guy was not very wise to kick somebody for the HP a player can have. It is important, in fact, but important to a point to kick somebody without knowing what that char can do? I'll tell you:

I have a lvl 20 sorc, female elf, 304 HP / 2609 SP. Not a savant. Not a TR. Without any high-end items (the only major pack I have is Reavers, and I'm not using the Dragontouched vestment I got from there, I prefer my +20 HP Deathblock robe). I'm using a +6 CON belt to help. And I've played a few EPICs like Lords of Dust, Servants of the Overlord, and some in House P when some friends threw me some guest passes without biggie. I had a few deaths, but some of the stronger players died too. The tanks have HP and DPS; I, have lots of ranged spells with the +20% damage of capstone enhancement. Fire to ice, Ice to fire, and a few others, depends on the situation.

I like the way I play, and I have no problem with the people. And if I find a strange LFM mentioning min HP, I'll laugh at them with a /tell. Some of them have even asked me to join after I do that (like when a dwarf was asking min 3 digit xxx HP to do Tear of Dhakan about lvl 7 ~ 9 and my elf rogue had much less than that; he really asked me to join him!)

So, don't mind min HP inferior demanders. They don't know how to play. This is a strategy game, not a bull's competition.

[Isharah]

I have a lvl 20 sorc, female elf, 304 HP / 2609 SP. Not a savant. Not a TR. Without any high-end items (the only major pack I have is Reavers, and I'm not using the Dragontouched vestment I got from there, I prefer my +20 HP Deathblock robe).

So, don't mind min HP inferior demanders. They don't know how to play. This is a strategy game, not a bull's competition.

Strategy doesn't work versus the Conjoined Abishai's lightning strike, nor does it work with blades in eADQ.

With the content you mentioned though, 300 HP is already okay for those epics.

I suppose the best way to determine the min HP an arcane needs (without generalizing) is by first stating which quests/raids you want to run, and which roles you want to take.

[Crann]

I have a lvl 20 sorc, female elf, 304 HP / 2609 SP. Not a savant. Not a TR. Without any high-end items (the only major pack I have is Reavers....

That does not seem to be a good position of authority to be giving advice about hit point requirements of a Hard Shroud, or for a thread necro

[gerardIII]

So... U12 came out. I joined a Hard Shroud as a Fire Sorc with 280 Hitpoints, 3073 sp and got booted for not having enough Hitpoints! Never has this ever happend to me. I have high umd and can self heal.

My stats are:

Str 16
Dex 18
Con 24
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 34

I have worked on my dc and sr and usually have no issues killing in normal raids (greater evocation feat and item, +1,2 and +3 Cha items). However I am not a TR.

How many HP should a non Tr sorc have to be raid/epic ready? Someone told me I should have 400, but what I would have to give up to have that would decrease the effectiveness of my spells.

Toughness is a must-have, pure classes at lvl 20 who have at least 1 Toughness feat have HP ending with 2 or 7 (except maybe DoS and SD prestige in stance) as Toughness gives +22hp and all other HP bonuses are multiples of 5. Drop a Mental Toughness and get Toughness.

280hp self healing is ok in hard shroud.

Fire Savant is not very useful at endgame.

[Kmnh]

The basic "don't get eaten by arraetrikos' random meteor swarms" number, 404. With that much and clever use of protection from elements/fire shield, you can do most raids, as long as you don't pull aggro. Being above 400 helps on the abbot asteroids puzzle, but that doesn't matter that much to most people.

From there, you have to pick if you want to play a rogue type of sorcerer or a barbarian type.

If you are going for the rogue type, take the subtle spellcasting enhancement and equip a "stealth strike" item. The magewright cloak is an easy item to farm, but you van get it from cannith crafting if you want to. Try to avoid pulling aggro, even if it means lowering your DPS by a bit.

If you are going for the barbarian type, try to reach somewhere above 500 HP, get some healing amp and a good shield. Take the boss' aggro and shield-block. Sorcerers with decent HP and gear are pretty good tanks for normal raids and playable on hard.

[MRMechMan]

Having decent hp and having decent DC/spell pen/sp are not mutually exclusive.

You can have both, why not get both?

If you are aiming for 500-600 on a sorc you might need to make some sacrifices but to get to low-mid 400s is takes little to no sacrifice...so why not do it?

[KingOfCheese]

I wouldn't even think of leaving home without having at least 700.



On a more serious note, I've had a variety of sorcs and wizzies at level 20 (currently 4) of varying races. Here's what I've come to believe:

1) the more hps the merrier so long as you aren't sacrificing other important things to get them.
2) but, if you learn how to move you can get away with surprisingly little and be entirely effective in essentially all game content (short of tanking some bosses--which can be done with higher hps a lot easier).
3) 300+ is good enough if you have good mobility and tactics.
4) 400+ is a nice safety buffer if you don't have great mobility or tactics (especially with self-healing).
5) 500+ is the gravy-zone. Tons of buffer for mistakes or for daring moments. I try to get everyone in this zone. But no big deal if it takes a while to get there.

[78mackson]

One guy in my guild has 280 hp on his drow squishy sorc///have never seen him die - but I would qualify him as uber. Personally, I wouldn't feel safe unless I had 550 or so. Internet connection and laptop isn't really what it used to be!

[Sircowdog]

Its probably already been said a couple times, but....

A sorc should have enough HP to survive the biggest single hit possible, and enough left over to last until you can cast a reconstruct(if WF), or a UMD'd heal scroll.

More is better, of course, but really I think the amount a HP a sorc SHOULD have is highly dependent upon personal skill levels, and not some arbitrary number pulled out of someones.....hat.