The Emerald v 2.0 Updated for U12 - Monk12/Fighter6/Paladin2

[MeatSheild]

forgot to ask, would you still use the same starting stats with your 6 pally build as you did with the 6 fighter build? can't see trying to raise CHR for some of the pally skills so would imagine they would be about the same, if not exactly the same

Ok i'll try to answer your questions Kendo (though I'm sure I'll fall short).

As far as AC goes: I think you get one more due to balwark 2 but it does cost some AP.

Your dex/wis based monk: This build is very much like your curent build (though the multiclassing adds some hp and other benifits) and your current build is only a 1st lifer so you'd be building a second lifer for this and this is set up to be a 3rd life build (though doable on a second) you might want to run a second lifer just for the pl feat (barb for the hp, art for the umd, fighter for the to-hit and +1 dc) at end end game you could grind for gear in your second life and TR into this with most/all your ducks in a row. Having said that you'd be fine with sub par gear as long as you aren't tring to tank things out of your range (like elite ToD or hard LoB). Anyway i think you get my point here.

I would think using the same starting stats would be percfectly fine. I am on my 3rd life with this toon now and used slightly diffrent starting stats due to the tomes I had stashed away (+3 wis,int,con, and +4 con). I also went human for the extra toughness feat.

All-in-all there are many gives and takes on the DoS vs SD, but the main reason I decided to DoS for now was pure speculation on my part (for the summer exspation). I'd go into that but whats the point noone realy knows whats going to happen. I'm just making a stab in the dark and hoping for the best.

[korsat]

On the 12monk/6fighter/2paladin what do you think about dropping 1 toughness for skill focus:umd?hps still higher than the paladin6 version and you gain full umd the arti splash can have without renunce at the saves boost!

[kendo]

Ok i'll try to answer your questions Kendo (though I'm sure I'll fall short).

As far as AC goes: I think you get one more due to balwark 2 but it does cost some AP.

Your dex/wis based monk: This build is very much like your curent build (though the multiclassing adds some hp and other benifits) and your current build is only a 1st lifer so you'd be building a second lifer for this and this is set up to be a 3rd life build (though doable on a second) you might want to run a second lifer just for the pl feat (barb for the hp, art for the umd, fighter for the to-hit and +1 dc) at end end game you could grind for gear in your second life and TR into this with most/all your ducks in a row. Having said that you'd be fine with sub par gear as long as you aren't tring to tank things out of your range (like elite ToD or hard LoB). Anyway i think you get my point here.

I would think using the same starting stats would be percfectly fine. I am on my 3rd life with this toon now and used slightly diffrent starting stats due to the tomes I had stashed away (+3 wis,int,con, and +4 con). I also went human for the extra toughness feat.

All-in-all there are many gives and takes on the DoS vs SD, but the main reason I decided to DoS for now was pure speculation on my part (for the summer exspation). I'd go into that but whats the point noone realy knows whats going to happen. I'm just making a stab in the dark and hoping for the best.

thank you MeatSheild,

beginning to think I need to either go ahead and TR or do some massive respecs. with only 1 toughness feat, on first life and having focused more on wisdom and dex than str and con, I have a tough time cracking over 400 hp and that's just not enough for high level raids, even on normal. I have completed a couple but just feel like I am not pulling my weight. or maybe I am but halflings don't weigh much

but without a lot of expense, I wouldn't be able to count this first life as fighter or barb, which seem to be goods ones to have, along with paladin.

I can see where the paladin split would be more self sufficient and with either 6 fighter or 6 paladin, you are only 1 +3 heart away to get you past life in them instead of monk.

so I could see doing a TR now, go 6 paladin then TR to 6 fighter, each time using a +3 heart before the TR to get the past life. by then, assuming the game hasn't changed entirely would be ready to go for a final TR into a build like this. and should have a much better chance of getting gear on the second and third lives.

and one totally new question - looking over the alchemical crafting, would adamantine air/water wraps work instead of air/air? going water on the second tier would give you another +2 to wisdom for stunning DCs and AC and a different elemental type besides lightning.

[MeatSheild]

Kendo: I persoonaly like the air/water for the wisdom and the untyped dmg, but air/air gives that lit strike, dex, and %6 double strike. I will be using the challenge belt for double strike (its not as much but.... what ever).

[itraylor]

Would something like the Epic Frozen Tunic be a good alternative to the Icy Raiment? With the tunic you would get your Armor Bonus +8, Enhanced Ki +1, and nice things like Freezing Ice and Fire Shield (Cold). It seems like you are already getting your Dodge Bonus and Protection from other sources (I think) and Resistance +4 can be slotted somewhere else. If that is the case the Epic Frozen Tunic seems to be better or maybe even Garments of Equilibrium. Of course I am completely stupid about Monks but I am thinking about rolling this build. Thanks for any tips!

[SoloPhalanx]

Would something like the Epic Frozen Tunic be a good alternative to the Icy Raiment? With the tunic you would get your Armor Bonus +8, Enhanced Ki +1, and nice things like Freezing Ice and Fire Shield (Cold). It seems like you are already getting your Dodge Bonus and Protection from other sources (I think) and Resistance +4 can be slotted somewhere else. If that is the case the Epic Frozen Tunic seems to be better or maybe even Garments of Equilibrium. Of course I am completely stupid about Monks but I am thinking about rolling this build. Thanks for any tips!

You won't get the Dodge Bonus anywhere else. You should look into a Frozen Tunic for when you are not tanking though, the Freezing Ice is pretty neat

[Kennyburns]

Hey Keldia this is Kennyfails of Cannith, I have a 12/6/2 fighter monk arty who has almost the same gear make up and lose of 3 ac only due to no mabar cloak 2 (Comp Broke) and -1 from no pally, I'm going to Tr after some more raid completions, got past lives monk X2 and Fighter X1 and was thinking of doing 12/6/2 Monk Fighter Arty, Based on your original build just swapping out 1 ac and a bit weak LoH for +1 DMG and to hit (When no arty) and ,+14 UMD, Making arrows with Epic HellFire and mindsunder/tovens rune arm(LoB Pillars), and +30% on scrolls, I would use this gear set up
Weapon Alchemical Air/Air/Ice Silver/Adamantine
Armor - Icy Raiments - Dodge Ritual 1
Neck - Epic Grims - Str1
Ring - Tod(Wis1)/Event Dex - Holyburst/GFL
Helm/Bracer/Boot - Epic Abi - Dex1/Fort/Toughness
Belt - Challenges - Con6/Nat Ac4
Trinket - Epic Facets - Con1
Cloak - Gs Hp Con op/Mabar(When its back)
Goggles - Ravens/Gs Hp Con Op(When I get mabar)
Gloves - Claw
~Have all the gear listed except mabar cloak~
Swapping out Past life ranger for Monk and 1 toughness(22HP) for power attack
Because i like to use this toon for more then just tanking(self sufficient DPS/ToD/Trash)
I like to have my toons get a DPS option because when I''m doing Guild Epic LoB I'm not tanking and it is good to be able to do more DPS
Overall my version would end up with -1 Ac, not to big when the strongest to-hit I'm gonna tank is hard LoB which only need 101 ac
93 + 1 Haste armor + 1 Bark + 4 Bard + 5 Pally + 4 Imp Curse Spewing + 4 Curse Spewing + 4 Bestow Curse = 116(104 with no curse) this means i dont actually have to keep recitation and haste armor up, or with any of the curses i can turn on power attack for that boost of DPS to quicken things up, Combinations etc...
Lose of LoH
Relying on my guild ranger for barkskin
-22 HP
-Large augment slot
Gain of +30% scroll heals
+1 DMG/to-hit when no arty
Rune Arm
+5 Stun DCs
+14 UMD
+1 Die Step
In the end I'm asking if you see this as a viable option
I truly dont like the paladin version, if i made it i would have the same amount of toughness's as the fighter version and again i rather pure DPS then some more threat, yes, 100% threat will mean i never lose aggro but i have never had problems with aggro even on my current life, VS my current life i lose 3 DMG per hit (lvl 8 fighter and Greater weapon focus) and 2 other feats, -2 ac/-25% threat/5% HP/-2 intimidate/str/con (Stalwart), +3.5 DMG from die step (1d10"5.5" to 2d8"9") overall gain of .5 DPS, Improved evasion, Touch of death, Abundant Step, Lawful fists, 2d6 sneak, walk on water(abbot/LoB whirlwind), upgrade 1.1 amp to 1.2, +1 con/ac/15% threat/5% melee DMG lower(earth stance),+1 Ac lvl 10 monk, So with this much DPS gain I should be even better at keeping aggro
Opinions/advice are welcome

[MRMechMan]

You won't get the Dodge Bonus anywhere else. You should look into a Frozen Tunic for when you are not tanking though, the Freezing Ice is pretty neat

Basically that...

only 3 sources of +4 dodge:

icys
cove light armor (not really an option)
Epic nat gann staff (probably pretty far from ideal too)

4 AC is huge so icys are pretty much locked into a monk wis/dex based AC build.

But yea, when you are not tanking or your AC is already "good enough", the tunic is a good choice.

[Shaolinfist]

Currently running this build on Orien.
3rd life, 1st was monk, 2nd was fighter. Really enjoying it, currently at level 18.
I have no epics and only one greensteel i just made =D

Even with no gear it performs pretty well, my biggest concern is my to-hit.
I don't have a very awesome selection of wraps yet, so I can make up some room there and no to-hit item, I am just hoping that will be enough. I got some GH clickies and heroism pots I try to run at all times to help as well.

[Ziindarax]

Is there any way I can modify this build to get the saves even higher?

[Droken]

Hey Kelida this is Kennyfails of Cannith, I have a 12/6/2 fighter monk arty

I ran 12 monk 6 fighter 2 arty for awhile. I didn't like it as much. You get ranged viability, but on epic LoB, it turns out you don't actually even DPS the pillars. You use scrolls of prismatic ray to one shot them. =S Also, without the 2 paladin levels, my saves were hurting pretty badly in comparison. I kept getting knocked down by the Master Artificer's constant tactical detonations. It's definitely not bad though, that's for sure. The increase to UMD is certainly convenient. You don't have to worry about swapping to UMD items to use such things as wands of shield. The Emerald is just a blue print. Feel free to deviate in whatever fashion best serves your personal playing style. =}

Is there any way I can modify this build to get the saves even higher?

With at least 2 paladin levels, you can't fail anything except on a natural 1. No need to get saves higher than that. In fact, my saves are so high that I can afford to drink a yugo pot of wisdom without worrying about the -4 to reflex it comes with. In my orginal screenshot for this thread, I forgot to use Greater Heroism.

how does this variation stack up to the original 6 fighter / 2 paladin in AC? Would it make more sense to just go ahead and TR. even without all the gear needed to make this build shine, it would be way more viable than my current build and could focus on getting the gear the second time through.

AC wise, they're exactly the same. Stalwart prestiege grants 1 additional AC, but that's negated by 6 paladin version having 1 increased aura from Bulwark. Stalwart does indeed have 2 higher intim though, and more enhancement points to put into even higher intim. Gear wise, go ahead and TR. Most of the stuff you need for end-game tanking are epic items, and when getting epic items, your AC usually doesn't amount to anything anyways ;p You'll rely mostly on your stunning fist. A cheap Spare Hand from the challenges pack can up that DC pretty significantly. Through the course of leveling, you'll be near untouchable as long as you have some cannith crafting to help you along. The vast majority of items I wear while leveling are simply cannith crafted items with the master property to use them at even lower levels.

[kendo]

AC wise, they're exactly the same. Stalwart prestiege grants 1 additional AC, but that's negated by 6 paladin version having 1 increased aura from Bulwark. Stalwart does indeed have 2 higher intim though, and more enhancement points to put into even higher intim. Gear wise, go ahead and TR. Most of the stuff you need for end-game tanking are epic items, and when getting epic items, your AC usually doesn't amount to anything anyways ;p You'll rely mostly on your stunning fist. A cheap Spare Hand from the challenges pack can up that DC pretty significantly. Through the course of leveling, you'll be near untouchable as long as you have some cannith crafting to help you along. The vast majority of items I wear while leveling are simply cannith crafted items with the master property to use them at even lower levels.

thank you for the reply. I have a crafter in the low 50s and will be spending some time with him soon to push that, hopefully, to at least low 60s. so should be able to craft reasonable gear for leveling. will see about getting a few versions of the spare hand banked before doing a TR. was hoping to get alchemical hand wraps before TRing but will see how that goes.

[DrawingGuy]

So I've been debating many Monk evasion tank builds. Pure monks are limited to hate tanking, and while certainly viable, are low HP and limited on what bosses they can properly handle, and require "hate buildup"... which is especially painful on bosses that reset aggro.

So that requires a cross class. To dive below 12 levels of monk, you lose enough that you may as well just splash monk and not use wraps, so I've found myself latched on this build.

So I then asked myself how do I improve it? I came to down to that I can think of only one build that may be able to compare: 12 monk / 7 pali /1 arti

The 1 arti earns you UMD as a class skill, as well as a +1 AC and +1 weapon enhancement spell. They may be short lived, but still very useful for the quick cast boost while you have a sec on a boss and there is no arti in party.

The 7 pali vs 6 fighter:
7 pali grants you 1 higher AC, magic circle, +2 higher saves (or more if you take cha enh), +6 concentration, spells, useable lay on hands, a 100% hate click, immune to disease and fear, and smites.

You lose 4 feats (I would drop 2 toughness, weapon focus/spec), attack haste enh, and 2 intimidate (which can be countered by higher cha)

The pre-reqs of Siberys all tie into boosting your aura that you want to boost in the first place. The loss to the attack/damage enhancements are made up in the arti and pali spells and then surpassed with smites. Heck you don't even really need to do the smites as I care more about the hate clicky.

So what do you think? Does that actually improve the build? Is losing 44 HP (48 in stance) far too great a loss? Or am I missing other advantages of the Emerald 2.0 versus my build? I'd post, but don't really feel right posting a build I haven't played yet (as my char is waiting for the second TR, and looking for input on where to go for it).

[Droken]

There is a reason why The Emerald is so popular. =} It's not a theoretical build. It's actually a backwards deconstruction of my character.

The biggest reason why your 7 paladin 1 arty theoretical build won't come together as imagined is due to enhancement points. You will fall WAY short of the things you talk about. Like, way way short..

A link to my updated 12 monk 6 paladin 2 fighter variant can be found here. Every single point of enhancement is used up for something important. The only thing I can think of swapping out is 1 point used for extra lay hands, possibly a few more if your stat points aren't high enough to benefit from the monk wisdom etc. 2 enhancement points for 1 stat is totally worth it though, so eventually when your character gets all the proper gear they need, they'll want to spend the enhancements towards that anyways.

Aura 3 alone costs 3 enhancement points. Smites don't work with unarmed attacks. More concentration from the second line of auras is unthinkable to spend enhancement points on.

4 feats also does not equal 44hp. It's 22HP per feat, so 88HP from feats alone plus an additional 4 HP from arty being a D6 instead of D10, plus 10% additional hp from all that equals just over 100hp, which is pretty darn significant.

[DrawingGuy]

Woah - realize you would NOT be zapping 4 toughness feats. That would be plains stupid. However you select weapon focus and weapon spec. I find those to be easily zappable, and is iterated in your paladin build variation. I generated the build, but as a light monk, so not needing the pre-reqs for ToD allowed the enh points to easily fit the third tiers. This, though, is of course a hit to epic trash dps, and is deciding with tanking which is better: shadow fade or anti-stun, walk the sun, and sp saving for bluebars. Unless, of course, it's abberations, extra-planar creatures, or undead.

I tried to make it work as a dark monk - and you're right - you can't fit the enhancements. So as a dark monk, a 12/6/2 of either pali or fighter is definitely superior. As a light monk, a 12/7/1 (with the 1 being arti or fighter) I see it pushing ahead of the 1 toughness feat loss with the addition of AC and saves that it can afford.

I thank you for your input, as it definitely pointed out that I didn't look at the dark monk side (as I was flip-flopping), and I now know I can't fit my build as a dark monk. So the choice becomes between the monk paths - how superior do you consider dark monk compared to light?

[Droken]

Yeah, I nixed the weapon focus and specialization long ago in my thread. I just didn't update the original build to reflect it. Granted, this change became harder and harder to notice once the messages started piling on.

Dark monk is ~far~ superior to light monk in my opinion. 25% incorporealty alone is enough to warrant the difference. This stacks with everything. This is a tank based build afterall, and any increased survivability should be sought after.

It's not just about trash DPS. Touch of Death adds a great deal of all around DPS, which also helps to hold aggro on bosses.

Water Striding lets you solo the Ice Room for Abbot, and run away during Whirlwind attacks during LoB.

Grasp of the Earth Dragon is primarily only used in ToD, and unless you're doing Elite, is not even neccessary for this build. Kelida only takes damage from Horoth's dots, so has no problem surviving during the stun durations.

As for saving casters mana and what not, leave that to other characters. Everyone has a job. It's about specialization, not generalization. The Emerald is first and foremost a tank.

[arroyo]

I TR'd my monk into an Emerald 2.0 12mnk/6pal/2ftr variant before knowing this build was stappled already. XD

But I admit that reading thru your guide has enlightened me a lot about the end-game loadout, which is so tight and was really bringing me nuts. My gear ain't finished yet, reaching only 80ish AC self buffed and 90ish raid-buffed. But I've tanked some normal/hard raids successfully so far, and had a chance to take over the Cojoined Abishai once the main tank lost his tankability (due to repeated deaths).

It's really a blast, highly recommended tank build.

[Feanor74]

If I understand it right then the "current" level breakdown of the Emerald 2.0 is 12/6/2 Monk/Paladin/Fighter.
I have two short questions regarding your outstanding and really cool build:

1.) You choose "Unyielding Sovereignty" at Pal 6.
Wouldn't "Undying Call" for free rez every 10 minutes be a greater choice (since you are Helf and are allowed to take it)?

2.) You choose DoS I as PrE at Pal 6. This is only because of the defensive stance, right?
What would you think about KotC I instead of DoS I?

I really can't wait to get the chance to TR my pure monk but I guess I will farm some equipment first ;-)

[MRMechMan]

If I understand it right then the "current" level breakdown of the Emerald 2.0 is 12/6/2 Monk/Paladin/Fighter.
I have two short questions regarding your outstanding and really cool build:

1.) You choose "Unyielding Sovereignty" at Pal 6.
Wouldn't "Undying Call" for free rez every 10 minutes be a greater choice (since you are Helf and are allowed to take it)?

2.) You choose DoS I as PrE at Pal 6. This is only because of the defensive stance, right?
What would you think about KotC I instead of DoS I?

I really can't wait to get the chance to TR my pure monk but I guess I will farm some equipment first ;-)

Just at a guess:

1You can craft raise clickies. You cannot craft something that removes death penalties...in fact there are very few ways to do that. It's nice to have a true res on elves/Helves but there aren't enough to justify getting it.

2 This is a tank build, the DoS I gives +10% hp, +2 str and +2 con, +25% hate, and I think +2 AC and +1 saves. All awesome stuff and useful in almost any situation.

That is compared to +1 attack and 1d6 damage, +2 saves vs evil outsiders...it's not even close.

[Nyvn]

If I understand it right then the "current" level breakdown of the Emerald 2.0 is 12/6/2 Monk/Paladin/Fighter.
I have two short questions regarding your outstanding and really cool build:

1.) You choose "Unyielding Sovereignty" at Pal 6.
Wouldn't "Undying Call" for free rez every 10 minutes be a greater choice (since you are Helf and are allowed to take it)?

2.) You choose DoS I as PrE at Pal 6. This is only because of the defensive stance, right?
What would you think about KotC I instead of DoS I?

I really can't wait to get the chance to TR my pure monk but I guess I will farm some equipment first ;-)

1) Rez clickes and scrolls

2) KotC is really really weak. Even versus Evil Outsiders it's behind what real dps PRE's give, and it's only useful against a small portion of enemies. DOS is useful in alot more situations, especially for a tank.