Clonk 17/3 STR based

[doxena]

Hi all ,

this is my first post and i'll ask you an advice or comment my idea of my next TR.

Here's the build.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(3 Monk \ 17 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 292
Spell Points: 1134 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 12
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    25
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         14                    17
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               14                    18
Charisma              9                    11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    20
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         6                    26
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                  2                     6
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  6                    10
Listen                2                     5
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                3                     5
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Enhancement: Half-Elf Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I

Thx for advice!

[Tsuarok]

Looks good. I hope you like micromanagment.

It's a tough call between Extend and IC: Blud. On the one hand, having to recast DP and DF will interrupt your combos (and you already have a lot interrupting them if you're trying to heal and fight), and on the other hand you have both increased damage and increased ki generation from IC. Could go either way.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Hands down I prefer wisdom based to strength based. The +2-4 to attack and damage no where near makes up for the loss of 2-4+ spell DC, 100 SP+, AC and stunning fist DC. I've also seen this attitude reflected in other people's attitudes that have experimented with both varieties extensively.

Beyond that, I'd skip the 3rd monk level. This used to be a powerful option with fists of light but it has been nerfed now and isn't as worth it. The light side buffs take too much attention to use effectively when you will be concentrating on healing and the Ki is better spent on stunning fist. Alternatively, 1 fighter gives an extra feat (stunning fist), +10 HP (fighter toughness I) and haste boost I which is nice DPS.

Stunning Fist is, for me, really the reason the build works. Wisdom based you can have a higher DC than most monks and it is a way to contribute in melee even if you DPS is otherwise low.

[erikbozelie]

Hands down I prefer wisdom based to strength based. The +2-4 to attack and damage no where near makes up for the loss of 2-4+ spell DC, 100 SP+, AC and stunning fist DC. I've also seen this attitude reflected in other people's attitudes that have experimented with both varieties extensively.

Beyond that, I'd skip the 3rd monk level. This used to be a powerful option with fists of light but it has been nerfed now and isn't as worth it. The light side buffs take too much attention to use effectively when you will be concentrating on healing and the Ki is better spent on stunning fist. Alternatively, 1 fighter gives an extra feat (stunning fist), +10 HP (fighter toughness I) and haste boost I which is nice DPS.

Stunning Fist is, for me, really the reason the build works. Wisdom based you can have a higher DC than most monks and it is a way to contribute in melee even if you DPS is otherwise low.

was about to type the same. +1.

you can gain an insane amount of dps if the trash monster is stunned and by stacking gear and abilities( do not recommended this for any first life. wisdom based also grands you offensive casting, which works if you know which spells to use, even in epic.

[doxena]

was about to type the same. +1.

you can gain an insane amount of dps if the trash monster is stunned and by stacking gear and abilities( do not recommended this for any first life. wisdom based also grands you offensive casting, which works if you know which spells to use, even in epic.

It could be but having less sp than a pure cleric i think is more usefull using that for heal or buffing insteal try to land a CC.

I know that it's not possibile to create a all-around char and my idea was to make a clonk that could do a "CC killing mob faster than they could do dmg to you" and keep sp for healing and buffing (with the help of Radiant ,Light First , Healing Ki and Aligning the Heavens for sp saving)

[wax_on_wax_off]

It could be but having less sp than a pure cleric i think is more usefull using that for heal or buffing insteal try to land a CC.

I know that it's not possibile to create a all-around char and my idea was to make a clonk that could do a "CC killing mob faster than they could do dmg to you" and keep sp for healing and buffing (with the help of Radiant ,Light First , Healing Ki and Aligning the Heavens for sp saving)

Even full ****** barbarians don't qualify at the killing before being killed idea, it simply doesn't work (in any meaningful content).

What you currently have is a character that will really shine in easy content but fail abysmally in any content that is remotely challenging. Well, ok, maybe that's a bit strong but the idea is there.

CC spells (and abilities like stunning fist) are the best form of healing that you have available: preventative. If used well they'll have a much better SP:HP ratio than any healing spell that you could hope to use and are so much more fun than just healing all the time.

The feedback that you've been given is solid, now the choice is whether you learn the easy way or the hard way.

[Tsuarok]

If you still want to go str based, consider swapping your wis and cha scores. With an (eventual) +4 tome, you'll qualify for DM III (DM II with a +2), which can be a big boost. Plus the healing bursts/aura don't interfere with your combos, so you'll want to have them available for when you need to heal NOW, but want to fire off the AtH you have prepped.

[Raoull]

Speaking as a str based clonk.....

If melee is what you want, I think you pretty much need to be str based. As much as a Wis clonk could have a better stunning fist DC, I would seriously worry about the tohit of a wis based clonk. I'd like a higher tohit at times, and I have a 30 str, +2tohit from gear, +5 weapons (some higher due to bane), use DP/DF, etc.... Toss 3 Fighter past lives on, and that fist DC gets out of hand, and the tohit is still quite reasonable for a wis based clonk, but without that, I think the tohit is too important.

Whether or not melee or caster clonks are better I think isn't much of a question. I like playing a melee clonk, it's fun. (When I feel like playing a caster, I play my wizard.) If you want to, go for it. It doesn't matter what is "better", just what you have fun doing. This is a game. And compared to some flavor builds, tons of groups will still want a healer that can melee when healing isn't necessary. Your melee may not be the same as the B20, but every bit helps, and healers are in great demand. (Just do not be the "I am a battle cleric that heals only myself" type.... not that I've ever run into one, but people seem to imply they are out there somewhere....)

I will agree with those who question the M3 though. Without the great healing it used to offer via the Monk finishers, M3 isn't worth it. Either go C18 for more SP/slots/durations/etc or go C17/M2/F1 for an extra feat and better melee (primarily due to haste boost).

As far as the Wis/Cha swap goes.... I started with enough CHA for DM, but reincarnated and ditched it. I wasn't using it much. With the 1 minute duration seeming too short I always felt like my turns were better spent on aura/blast. I ditched the 4 CHA for an extra 2 Str. Sure, I lost 4 dam when DM was on, but I gained 1 dam all the time... and more importantly, that 1 tohit.

IC:Bludgeon is not worth it. You gain only 5% of damage.... but that's only assuming the mob has no fort, and more importantly, that you have no extra damage. Your holy, holy burst, bleed, frost, bane, banishing, etc..... numbers are an enormous portion of your damage. You'll probably only do an extra 2-3% with IC. For example, one of my favorite wraps are frosted +5 banishing wraps of bleed. I probalby average about 28 per hit in main damage, so that extra 5% is worth 1.5. But I also do 3.5 (frost), 14 +5ish (banishing), 7 (holy from ToD ring) and 4.5 (bleed) for 29 extra damage (ignoring the +5ish from the whole "on a 20 kill or do 100 dam" thing) that is unaffected by crits. IC is huge for khopesh swinging melee... not so much for handwrap fighters (although it becomes a bit significant with Earth III stance). With a pure monk, I think its worth it just because they have feats to burn. You'll need at least 3 feats for metas (quicken, maximize, emp healing) that a monk doesn't need, plus they have an extra feat.

Extend is definitely better... or if you want to be stranger, I went with Shield Mastery. Most people look at me funny for being a monk with shield mastery, but there are times when you are a healer straight out and not a melee. In many of those times, dying is very very bad.... so I switch to a defensive mode where my evasion saves me from most spell damage, and my DR and shield save me from much physical damage. May not be for everyone, but I like the flexibility. Stunning fist would also be a reasonable choice. You can get a 37 DC fist with the right wraps. Not awesome, but should work great for hitting casters and whatnot with lesser Fort saves.