Guild Renown Decay & better control over it

[Malidane]

I’ve been running a guild for over 2 years now and one of the biggest problems with the current guild structure is the fact that – I cannot see how much renown each account has generated. What I propose is two separate columns next to each guild members name showing, TOTAL renown generated since he joined the guild & is he up to par for the week showing how much he has generated in the last week. Another words if the guild is up to a point that each account must generate 1100 renown per day to break even -- I would like to see if Frank who has promised me that he PLAYS – is really doing so.

Many times I’ve had people begging me to join my guild and they promise that they will play A LOT daily or at lease 4 -5 times a week.. Then I do not see them or when they are on they are in the Wayward Lobster goofing around. With this system a guild leader would be able to see who is a active player and who does not give a orc’s butt about the guild.

** The guild leader should be able to see everybody’s RENOWN Progress.
** Officers should be able to see all guild members renown BUT NOT each others.
** Members see only members.
** Everybody should be able to see the Guild Leaders renown (Lead by example)

-- For those that may NOT understand, try to reach level 75 or 80 and you will see how much renown is lost daily..
-- Also if u do not care about guild levels and you are in a social FEEL-good guild that does NOTHING except talk a lot – then this post is not for you.

[Kmnh]

snip

If your guild is based on renown farming and not on actually playing the game, that's a problem with your guild, not with the game's design.

Guild levels were a bad idea from the start.

[Lord_Thanatos]

If your guild is based on renown farming and not on actually playing the game, that's a problem with your guild, not with the game's design.

Guild levels were a bad idea from the start.

When it requires farming to get any guild levels beyond a certain point, that is a problem with the system's design and not the guild.

[shores11]

This is almost an identical suggestion to the idea in ths post Guild Levels - Renown Gain/Decay.

There was some positive repsonses there however I do agree that guilds should not have to farm to gain levels.

[Ungood]

Oh this idea again.

This keeps coming up (I'll admit, I even suggested it once a while back)

The problem is, this just gives the guild leader a Kick List, not really a means to manage guild renown.

There is enough problems as it is with just knowing how long it's been since someone played to opt to kick them. So, nahh. The game needs Less Greifing Tools, not more.

I however, saw another idea, Here and it got me thinking. Why not replace ship buffs with with just Banners and Icons and Trophies, no Buffs.

Just fill the ship with a amenities that help out a player, like a Bar, Navigator, Mail Box, Bank, Spirit Binder, Auction House, All the crafting devices, (Canith/Vale/Sora/Epic/Etc... etc... etc...), and make it like a "Floating Keep" for a guild to gather at, as opposed to a buff-n-go station.

Something to think about.

[Silverwren]

The problem is, this just gives the guild leader a Kick List, not really a means to manage guild renown.

I disagree. This WOULD be a tool to help manage guild renown. Those that don't gather enough renown can be reminded that they need to play more often or risk being set adrift.

There is enough problems as it is with just knowing how long it's been since someone played to opt to kick them. So, nahh. The game needs Less Greifing Tools, not more.

You missed the point here. It's not about knowing how long it's been since someone has played. It's about knowing how much renown they have gathered, and the fact is that gathering renown is the ONLY way a guild can level.

I however, saw another idea, Here and it got me thinking. Why not replace ship buffs with with just Banners and Icons and Trophies, no Buffs.

Just fill the ship with a amenities that help out a player, like a Bar, Navigator, Mail Box, Bank, Spirit Binder, Auction House, All the crafting devices, (Canith/Vale/Sora/Epic/Etc... etc... etc...), and make it like a "Floating Keep" for a guild to gather at, as opposed to a buff-n-go station.

So you propose making airships completely useless and redundant? Most of the amenities you listed that you want to keep (Bar, Bank, etc) can be found elsewhere in Stormreach. All of the amenities you want to remove from the ships (resistance shrines, attribute shrines, etc.) CANNOT be found ANYWHERE in Stormreach, and you want to remove them? There's no way I can sign on to that.

As for the OP......./signed!

[Ungood]

I disagree. This WOULD be a tool to help manage guild renown. Those that don't gather enough renown can be reminded that they need to play more often or risk being set adrift.

This is exacly why it is a bad idea, you have just illustrated that it would be used as nothing but a greifing tool, a kick list. You admit that you would use it as nothing but a means to threaten your guild members.

Again. /Not Signed.

And you have made it very clear why.

If you don't want someone in your guild, kick them. If you want them, keep them. How much they earn should not be an issue.

[Silverwren]

This is exacly why it is a bad idea, you have just illustrated that it would be used as nothing but a greifing tool, a kick list. You admit that you would use it as nothing but a means to threaten your guild members.

Again, you missed the point, and you're twisting what I said. I did not admit that I "would use it as nothing but a means to threaten your guild members". That was you putting words in my mouth. I said that it would be a tool to determine who's gathering renown and who's not. If our guild wishes to grow, our members need to gather renown. If they are not gathering renown, they need to be given a choice, either gather renown or hit the road.

If you don't want someone in your guild, kick them. If you want them, keep them. How much they earn should not be an issue.

How much they earn IS an issue. Casual players hurt guilds. That's a fact. You say if we don't want someone in our guild we should kick them. How would you propose we determine who to boot if we have no tools to use to determine who to boot? Play eenie meenie minee mo? Your arguments hold no water. We guild leaders NEED to have some tools to use to run our guilds better, since we have next to zero tools now.

[Ungood]

Again, you missed the point, and you're twisting what I said.

Trust me. I missed nothing.

Those that don't gather enough renown can be reminded that they need to play more often or risk being set adrift.

Now, You can try to sugar coat this any way you want to try and make this bitter pill sound sweet, but at the end of the day you just said, "Earn more renown or I am going to kick you"

/Not Signed

If you need to know how much renown your members are earning that badly and it means that much to you, try asking them.

[Gorbadoc]

I disagree. This WOULD be a tool to help manage guild renown. Those that don't gather enough renown can be reminded that they need to play more often or risk being set adrift.

I would never want to be in a guild that did that. If I were a high performer in a guild, I still wouldn't want the guild to kick my less active friends. If I were a low performer, I wouldn't want to be told that renown numbers were more important than my friendship with my fellow guildies. I suspect the silent majority of DDO players would agree with me, here: that kind of guild is more fun.

There's a conflict of choice here. Guild leaders should be able to make choices about how to run their guilds, BUT a guild is not defined just by its leader. EVERYONE in a guild contributed to that airship; EVERYONE helped build the social connections that keep people coming back. In the vast majority of guilds, it would be wrong to try to tempt the guild leader to tear that apart without the consent of EVERYONE.

Powergamer guilds that tell potential recruits, right up front, that this guild is trying for level 100-- that sort of guild is an exception. The reason: Players approaching a guild like that know, right up front, that numbers ARE more important than friendship for this guild. It's unanimously agreed by the guild's members, because anyone disagreeing doesn't join that guild.

Maybe a feature like the OP described should exist for the powergamer guilds. Activating that feature, though, should require unanimous consent from the guild's active members, and it should be clearly stated in the guild recruitment message that a guild has this feature turned on. Like I said, *I* would never want to be a part of a guild where the leader had a kick-list, but it's reasonable to ask the game to accommodate the people who do.

[JOTMON]

The problem is, this just gives the guild leader a Kick List, not really a means to manage guild renown.

For the guilds that are trying to figure out why they are not making headway, this is the tool that is needed.
Just because someone says they are collecting renown doesnt mean they are...

Some players don't know how much they should be collecting to break even, some dont care and are piking a free ride..

The leadership needs ways to see why they are faltering instead of guessing and making decisons based on little to no information.

It may end up as a kick list, but that is up to the Guild leader to decide, better infomation gets the right decisions made.



Getting the "hey we would you be offended if we asked you to leave the guild because we don't think you are contributing but we don't really know we are just guessing".

or

I have looked at your renown earned on a daily basis and you need to pickup your renown contribution or don't be surprised if we ask you to leave the guild...
/
Wow I looked at your guild renown, you have contributed a pile of renown, what are you doing to keep that number up there so we can figure out how to get others in the same range. Lets make you an officer.

[Ungood]

For the guilds that are trying to figure out why they are not making headway, this is the tool that is needed.

A blanket: Your Guild Earned XYZ Renown Today, Your Guild Decay is ABC would be enough to solve this issue.

Try Pep talks. offer rewards, and inspire and motivate. It is more telling that you want to retort to threats then the need for this system to be in place.

Wow I looked at your guild renown, you have contributed a pile of renown, what are you doing to keep that number up there so we can figure out how to get others in the same range. Lets make you an officer.

In retrospect, if they put in a leader-board of Renown Earning, and designed it so that the top earner is made guild leader by default, with the top 10% being made officers, and everyone else being members, with this being set into the design of the Guild system. Mechanically done. That would motivate people to take those rewards!

Because, at the end of the day, If renown is that important to a guild, well then, lets make it important to the guild, That I would /sign to.

But then again. I know I am the top earner of my guild.

[Silverwren]

In retrospect, if they put in a leader-board of Renown Earning, and designed it so that the top earner is made guild leader by default, with the top 10% being made officers, and everyone else being members, with this being set into the design of the Guild system. Mechanically done. That would motivate people to take those rewards!

You're crazy.

But then again. I know I am the top earner of my guild.

This and the other quote of yours tells me all I need to know about you.

[Ungood]

You're crazy.

I'm not crazy, you're just scared, and unwilling to really reward people for putting in top effort.

[Sixclicks]

The problem is, this just gives the guild leader a Kick List, not really a means to manage guild renown.

There is enough problems as it is with just knowing how long it's been since someone played to opt to kick them. So, nahh. The game needs Less Greifing Tools, not more.

I completely disagree. The guild leader should have the right to see all member's earned renown regardless of if this leads to them kicking players from the guild. If the guild is highly oriented towards achieving higher levels and therefore gaining renown it should be expected that you must meet your daily contributions. If you do not, the consequence is being kicked from the guild. If you don't like it, then join a different guild that doesn't care about renown growth. There would be no grief, as you claim, involved.

[JOTMON]

The guild tab should show more information.
Show on the Guild tab:
Total guild renown
Total decay to date
Most recent Guild decay amount and time it was processed.
Current calculated daily guild decay estimated
Daily account required break even amount.

Show each player's account
Total earned renown.
Current day earned
Balance to daily break even
Current decayed net worth.

Have the view restirctions as a checkbox by the Guild leader - just leaders can see, or entire guild....

Then you can see who the real contributors and pikers are.

[madmaxhunter]

No point even discussing this. Turbine clearly panders to the individual player. That's why small guilds get such outrageous bonuses and you lose so much kicking even the worst players out. It's the way it's been, it's the way it'll always be.

To quote Maxwell Smart: "the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many even to the point where everyone is the many and the few doesn't exist except in the theoretical realm". Maybe it was Inspector Gadget...

[Ungood]

To quote Maxwell Smart: "the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many even to the point where everyone is the many and the few doesn't exist except in the theoretical realm". Maybe it was Inspector Gadget...

That sounds way too philosophical for either of them.

[SiliconScout]

Here is the big and I mean BIG problem with that.

Guild size and decay is based on accounts not toons. The guild page shows toons only.

Thus if I have my main and say 10 alts in the guild and have been playing 2 alts lately and haven't touched my main in a month you might kick them. Trust me if I am in a guild and you boot my main and a handful of alts then I am leaving. Heck in my guild we have some toons that haven't been on in 8 months but I wouldn't want them out because the guys who own them (me included) are very active on other toons.

Also if you send a message to an alt I am not playing I really am not going to get it and you will end up booting that alt.

What you really need (if you want this) is a listing of Accounts and the renown they have been generating.

Now your problem here is that accounts are not visible to the players (and rightly so) to prevent all kinds of negative griefing / bullying issues that could potentially happen.

So from that perspective even having a number next to the toon indicating say the accounts join order, would still be a problem as you could identify all the toons of one player (at least all the ones in a guild) and it would leave itself open to the same abuses, although it would not stop them from making a new toon and not having it join the guild. Still the prospect that some jerk of a guild leader harassing a player whom he's booted is there and something I think they would seriously be concerned for.

I don't see an easy way of resolving this to be honest, even placing an average next to the player (averaging all this toons) will have the same effect of grouping together all the guys.

In a small guild like the one I helped found where everyone is RL friends it's not an issue but in your standard guild the violation of privacy that we all currently enjoy is a pretty big step and one I don't see them taking.

Perhaps you could have a list that simply numbered the accounts in order of renown earned but I don't see how that helps you either really as the numbers are going to change and you could end-up booting an otherwise active player who has earned you renown in the past but is on vacation. The 25% of their million renown is gonna hurt you a LOT more than their not grabbing 1100 a day for the next 2 weeks that they are dealing with a family issue.

In the end it's a bad idea all the way around really. Make the guild small and keep it that way I suggest. fill it with people you know play and just have fun together. Our guild knows that we will cap out probably around 80 if we are lucky and we are OK with that.

Best you can hope for is a "Guild total renown earned today" "Guild total renown decayed today" info. Then everyone in the guild can see that and the leader can know when to rally the troops.

[daiwelly]

Where can I find a difinitave guide to guild renown and decay please, We are a medium sized guild at the moment we are in a bit of a dilema, we at lev 45 of course we want lev 50 we have 42 active accounts but but modified 50 because of recent departures, what are the arguments for moving up to large guild size.
what we would like is a upto date guide to renown and not WIKI guide