Why PvP in DDO sucks?

[Kmnh]

I think a melee would absolutely crush a caster 1v1 in the old turn based D&D games I used to play. Sure casters get their big godly spells but...

1. Casters couldn't move while casting...meanwhile in DDO they can run backwards hopping around and still manage to cast.

2. The beefier spells tended to have long cast times. Meanwhile in DDO everything is pretty much instant cast with the right set up.

3. Casters were extremely limited as to what they could cast. I'm sure everyone remembers the old x number of level 1 spells, x of level 2, etc system. Meanwhile in DDO casters can run around spamming their highest level spells endlessly.

4. Oldschool D&D had friendly fire and you could hit yourself. Sure I can see why they disallow this in pvm, but why is it in pvp casters can stand in their own splash damage, and if you manage to get a group together and make some pvp teams, their team mates are immune to their splash damage as well?

I'll go on if you want me to, but I think I've already proven my point.

Nope, a caster would look at the silly melee, use a spell that has no save and works from a distance to incapacitate him, and then nuke away. Similar to what happens in DDO.

[Angelus_dead]

Nope, a caster would look at the silly melee, use a spell

In the old D&D games it took sixty seconds to cast one spell.

Because of the loose rules on actions in combat, a caster was virtually helpless when any enemy was nearby. There was none of that casting defensively, concentration checks, standard actions, or any of that to make it easier.

[Angelus_dead]

I am waiting for answer.

The reason PVP sucks in DDO is because it would take heavy effort to create good PVP, and the DDO team has not spent that heavy effort.

Why haven't they put in that effort? The most important reason is that they're not even close to finished with PVE game rules yet, so diverting any of their time to PVP would make their existing customers unhappy.

[Chai]

I think a melee would absolutely crush a caster 1v1 in the old turn based D&D games I used to play. Sure casters get their big godly spells but...

Roafles. Lets go over this.

1. Casters couldn't move while casting...meanwhile in DDO they can run backwards hopping around and still manage to cast.

They didnt need to move. If a melee could even get through their buffs it would be a miracle.

2. The beefier spells tended to have long cast times. Meanwhile in DDO everything is pretty much instant cast with the right set up.

Longer casting times arent an issue when the melee doesnt know where the caster is. Ill explain that in a min lower down in this post.

3. Casters were extremely limited as to what they could cast. I'm sure everyone remembers the old x number of level 1 spells, x of level 2, etc system. Meanwhile in DDO casters can run around spamming their highest level spells endlessly.

In 1v1 that limitation wouldnt come into play.

4. Oldschool D&D had friendly fire and you could hit yourself. Sure I can see why they disallow this in pvm, but why is it in pvp casters can stand in their own splash damage, and if you manage to get a group together and make some pvp teams, their team mates are immune to their splash damage as well?

The way the game is coded.

I'll go on if you want me to, but I think I've already proven my point.

Put a melee and a caster into the same map. Even if its a 10x10x10 map, which is extremely small, the caster now has 1k spaces to move around in, flying, with improved invis, stoneskin, etc. A melee wouldnt even know which square / hex (depending on edition) to attack into, much less be able to damage the caster even if they did know.

The caster has full advantage, and plenty of time, while the melee stands there holding their weapon at the ready waiting. Readied action? Not so fast, Improved invis doesnt drop on casting.

A caster level 7 or higher crushes melee in 1v1, and it only gets more hilarious from there on, in P&P. Caster limitation is their number of spells per day. Those options arent limited nearly as much as they are in DDO however....so its not nearly as easy to metagame against. In DDO casters have like 1/10th of the spells to select from per level.

[GregorianPL]

All your posts are interesting but it is still trash like someone else before me said.. hey i got Tharne Goggles how i could not see a caster ? True Sight let me see invisiblity.. in my D&D Sessions i have killed invisible mage with 1 shoot ofc that was lucky i rolled 20 when had that 5 % chance to hit him with critical but i was lvl 1 he was lvl 10 GM was really upset i have killed his hero.

[Chai]

All your posts are interesting but it is still trash like someone else before me said.. hey i got Tharne Goggles how i could not see a caster ? True Sight let me see invisiblity.. in my D&D Sessions i have killed invisible mage with 1 shoot ofc that was lucky i rolled 20 when had that 5 % chance to hit him with critical but i was lvl 1 he was lvl 10 GM was really upset i have killed his hero.

Because in P&P, a good DM creates a situation where metagaming is not possible.

Melee has but a few options open to them, where level 7 + casters have hundreds. A caster can prepare for just about anything a melee can do, where a melee can only prepare for a small amount of things a caster can do.

THe only thing balancing about TEAM pvp, is that both teams can have the same classes / builds.

[Perspicacity]

Because that's the way uh huh uh huh we like it.

I loled at that, +1.

@ op: PvP is anti-DDO. You want a good PvP system go play Guild Wars or Rohan: Blood Feud. As many have said before and many more will say after me, PvP has no place here. Move along.

[SSFWEl]

This is EXACTLY why I play this game. I played SWG and PvPed there and ended up hating it. And 90% of PvPers are big, whiny babies. The main reason I LOVE DDO is the focus on PvE. My lvl 14 Sorc son beats my lvl 20 rog every time when he wants to try out a new spell.

So yes yes this:

1. Dungeons and Dragons is NOT a player vs. player game. It is a team game vs. the Dungeon Master (Turbine) which creates quests for our teams to play in.

2. Since all other MMOs are "based on PvP" then why would DDO try to compete with them when it has a monopoly (as of this month) on truly well balanced PvE MMOs? If they focused on PvP then they would just be one more run of the mill MMO that wouldn't have anything special to offer. Their sucess is based on the fact that we DON'T do that.

3. People are NOT escaping DDO because of a lack of PvP, and in fact, if you look under just about any thread in this forum referencing PvP, almost everyone agrees they DON'T want it, and would in fact leave if the developers started to spend time on it instead of the myriad of things we really do want, like finishing the PREs, Druids, Gnomes, Eberron races, and adding end level quests. People are escaping DDO because they've taken too long on this and because other MMOs that are NOT based on PvP are being released.

4. The player base of DDO is mature, friendly players (I'm biased, I play on Thelanis) who enjoy each other's company and play as much for the game as the friends and fun. Turning this into a grief fest, teabagging game where only the best players have any fun, with immature children (or adults acting that way) like every other MMO and FPS would bring an end to Turbine's success.

5. And you are SO WRONG in saying a wizard could not 1 hit a Barbarian in real PnP D&D. In fact, not only could a 20th level wizard in PnP do that, but could take out an army of Barbarians, all level 20, while sitting in a self cast impervious castle, and be dinning with the gods themselves, in just one round. At least in 3.0 and 3.5. And don't get me started on what a druid or cleric could do.

[Yokido]

See now, Turbine does seem to have initiative towards making the players have fun whilst pitting against each-other, this was shown by their release of challenges with scores and time limits.

Any direct developments done to improve the quality of the pvp realm would have to involve only 1v1 battles,
where player's have a selection feature to choose which classes they will accept a fight with.
Coupled with that would also possibly be a reward system, it could be day long buffs, or it could be enhancements you get to choose from, or it could be tokens you get which you can craft onto anything for a boost.. Whatever it is, I'm sure Turbine will try their hardest to make it a very intriguing solution.

[Vanquishedfo]

lets see 1st ed due to the way HP worked all it would take is a few MMs cast long before the barb closed to gun down the sword swinging thug.

2nd ed which I recall alot more clearly atm, fly and whatever spells I felt like atm. id probably just use a few wall spells to box him in and put up a reverse gravity spell inside to kill him from fall dmg.

or if I was a cleric my favorite spell was creeping doom. unstoppable dmg that would eat anything alive. Killed no few dragons with that spell and barbs lol whole villages with a few of that spell. And lets not forget harm insta all but 1d4 hp. and clerics in PnP are easily on par in a fight with any fighter class with little effort.

3E well its even sicker with all the domains and specialties arcane classes and prestige classes and domains. Its just always been a realm ruled by magic in D&D like science and tech do for the real world.

unless your DM is running a specifically low magic setting which many do, where items are really rare and casters struggle to learn even a handful of spells for thier books, and classes like clerics might be outright banned. But in general the more free a player is allowed to be with using classes and feats from splat books the more powerful magic becomes especially with spells and clerics who always can access any on thier list as needed and dont have to wait on finding a scroll to add that spell to your book etc.

[snick69]

So you all say that you preffer PvE than PvP right? But think for 1 second:

What were your the best times when you played a Single player CRPG's? Which battles you enjoyed most? If you ask me I would answer that I enjoyed most when I won vs human classes or parties maked of clerics, fighters, mages etc. Same thing about bosses. They were mages xx lvl, fighters xx lvl or even multiclass and that were the most enjoyable battles. And yes, pvp sucks in this game but not because the system or classes or because dmg that casters deal. It's because a few things that could be easyli changed, for example:

- rays should be dodgeable and saveable (they deal the biggest dmg in the game so this is the real reason that casters own everything even if theyre xx lvls lower than the opp)

- fortification should work in 50% on pvp or melee classes should get skills to reduce forti for 50% (this is the way to make rogues functionable in pvp world, their sneak attacks and assassination, poisons etc)

- rogue sneaking should work for pvp (this is the way to use more tactics not only for rogue, but also for all classes to avoid the sneaking rogue who want to assassinate you. I mean casters using AoE spells or swinging for melee classes)

Believe me, if they would fix these 3 things PvP in DDO would be great and a lot of fun.

It is not bad right now because vs casters you got spell abs items (cloak etc) which allow you to get close to the caster and try to kill him. But also i dont like that the rogues are completely disabled from PvP'ing because 90% of their skills arent work on PvP. Think about this guys.

Sorry for my english and regards :P

[noinfo]

In the old D&D games it took sixty seconds to cast one spell.

Because of the loose rules on actions in combat, a caster was virtually helpless when any enemy was nearby. There was none of that casting defensively, concentration checks, standard actions, or any of that to make it easier.

And melees got 1 or 2 attacks in those 60 seconds. Depending on the version of the game some casting times were much faster than weapon speed modifier. Sleep and slit the throat at low level comes to mind.

[Uska]

Yes, i see you were playing different d&d than i do. There where i am playing mage is totally exhausted after throwing 1sic! high level spell, and by the way if you ever could be interested the council of wizards let them teach to fight with light weapons after one of them met that strong fighter so he could survive all of his spells..

Now lets see we have a heavy fortification that let us avoid damage from Criticals from melees why we cant avoid a critical from spellcaster ? fortification should work on it... we have a dr to any of physical damage but we dont have dr to spells expect some crapy magic resistance when casters have much much above 40 spell penetration, protection 120 dmg or 30 resistance to elements..

if you play were mages are exhausted after throwing a high level spell you werent playing by the pnp rules then were you

[NecroKovy]

Why can't we have a pvp zone on an airship? I don't care much for the 'Me vs You to determine who gets ego whipped!!'.

I much prefer going to the Phoenix Tavern with someone new, and allowing them some swings at me for training them in basic mechanics. Even if I'm not teaching them anything, I can fight back with just enough force to keep things urgent for them when necessary, and kill them outright if they just plain take too long to do something. This is why I would LOVE LOVE LOVE a way to get pvp on a guild ship, nice private combat training without having to worry about a MS crushing everything in, interrupting everything.

Also, it's great for basic spell research if you bring a buddy who is willing to just let you wail on them. I don't feel the need to fight the other players, the monsters bust my stones just fine thank you.