Wizard multiclass

[mathgirl123]

Im just curious about what multiclasses best with a wizard. i know its vague but im just looking for ideas or some build suggestions..

[Entelech]

It depends on what you want to do.

Rogue 2 / Wizard 18 is by far the most common multiclass combo, since it grants you evasion (take the Insightful Reflexes feat) and lots of useful skills without hampering your spellcasting too badly. It's a fairly forgiving build type for those new to multiclassing, as well.

I've seen builds with splashes of Fighter or Monk too. (The Pale Monkster is popular with several variants).

A level or two of Artificer might splash well into a Wizard, for the UMD and other class perks. I haven't seen these tested in play, yet, so proceed with caution.

There are also some well-established builds that go farther afield, such as arcane melee builds centered around either the Warforged race or the Pale Master PrE. 12 / 6 / 2 is a fairly common level split for most of these high-complexity multiclass builds, but it's not universal.


My most important advice is this: be clear on what you want to get from the multiclass splash, and be clear on what you're giving up, before you even click the Create New Character button.

[Shaz]

I concur with Entelech; rogue makes the best splash. I occasionally find Wiz/Rogues do better than "real" rogues at detrapping, because int provides such large bonuses to search and disable and some rogues tend to ignore int. Also, any character only needs an 18 int to keep search, spot and disable maxed at each level. And you should really have at least 18 base int on a wizard anyways. At 20 base you can keep search, spot, disable and concentration maxed at each level.

And then there are the buffs trapmonkey wizards can give themselves. Heroism, greater heroism, fox's, cat's. Ect. They make very good trapmonkeys. Roll in the light armor (elven fluidity enhancements can counteract arcane penalty fairly easily) and the sneak attacks, and I think rogue adds a lot to a wizard.

[SCOTTRIFE69]

It depends on what you want to do.

Rogue 2 / Wizard 18 is by far the most common multiclass combo, since it grants you evasion (take the Insightful Reflexes feat) and lots of useful skills without hampering your spellcasting too badly. It's a fairly forgiving build type for those new to multiclassing, as well.

I've seen builds with splashes of Fighter or Monk too. (The Pale Monkster is popular with several variants).

A level or two of Artificer might splash well into a Wizard, for the UMD and other class perks. I haven't seen these tested in play, yet, so proceed with caution.

There are also some well-established builds that go farther afield, such as arcane melee builds centered around either the Warforged race or the Pale Master PrE. 12 / 6 / 2 is a fairly common level split for most of these high-complexity multiclass builds, but it's not universal.

My most important advice is this: be clear on what you want to get from the multiclass splash, and be clear on what you're giving up, before you even click the Create New Character button.

I'm currently looking at a 18wiz/2arti build. just to take the arm cannon and free heavy repeating xbow prof feat. That adds a free solid damage extra that isnt tied to my SP pool allowing me to focus more on casting the meta boosted high end spells. Thinking more of a cold/necro build and using PMIII for the summons (mage), pet summons (via SM:IX), the puppy for an extra target that isnt me, and my hire which would give me nearly an entire party for soling. Going WF for the self healing (plus i try to pick WF hirelings to heal them) and by using the repair spells should be able to fire nearly unlimited necro blasts/bolts and top myself off when the undead field spell cant pick me up. There is also the ablative armor spell and stoneskin combo for sucking up a beating. I also figure with the high int i can keep up on search/disable device (wont need lock pick due to knock spell) to also act as a trapper in a jam. Figure ill spend the few points (4) on the dog to make it break boxes and pick up the rogue abilities for a slight bit of damage as it gnaws away.

All in all:
arm cannon (free AOE of 40-75ish damage every 10 seconds or so plus nice buffs for xbow/casting/crafting)
^(Tovens hammer maxed out can also give a free xfer kentic energy for SP restore and adds lightning strike weapons to the xbow and is still +5 craftable!)
heavy repeating xbow (great for necro blast CDs and saving SP for big spells/incineration from epic hellfire on proc)
rapid reload for xbow
search + disable device (trapper in a jam or main trapper at lower levels)
puppy (breaks boxes so i can be EXTRA lazy for xp bonuses)
couple 1st level spells/slots (including ablative armor/free +1 bolts)
3rd pet (assuming skele/sum monster 9/call puppy all work together)


Losing:
bonus feat at 20
two 9th level spells (only need a couple though so meh)
wizard master of magic enhancement (sucks to loose +2 int and reduced meta cost but well worth the trade offs)

[MartinusWyllt]

...That adds a free solid damage extra that isnt tied to my SP pool ...the puppy for an extra target that isnt me...There is also the ablative armor spell

I'm wanting to try this out when I have another artificer life but the rune arm damage isn't going to be phenomenal with 2 artificer levels...better than an eternal wand, at least. The puppy will only slow enemies down 4 or 5 seconds, maybe, past around level 5 and the ablative armor spell will cover 10 points of physical damage, total.

[jortann]

The best split is 18wizard/2wizard... or 12wiz/6wiz/2wiz

they both work about the same

[FuzzyDuck81]

I concur with Entelech; rogue makes the best splash. I occasionally find Wiz/Rogues do better than "real" rogues at detrapping, because int provides such large bonuses to search and disable and some rogues tend to ignore int. Also, any character only needs an 18 int to keep search, spot and disable maxed at each level. And you should really have at least 18 base int on a wizard anyways. At 20 base you can keep search, spot, disable and concentration maxed at each level.

And then there are the buffs trapmonkey wizards can give themselves. Heroism, greater heroism, fox's, cat's. Ect. They make very good trapmonkeys. Roll in the light armor (elven fluidity enhancements can counteract arcane penalty fairly easily) and the sneak attacks, and I think rogue adds a lot to a wizard.

Absolutely, for trap skills IIRC only a very focussed trapmonkey rogue can get higher search/disarm DCs than an rogue/wizard & they'd lose out on their other, more important functionality (namely being a backstabby killing machine), however the rogue/wizard only loses out on a relatively small amount of casting power for the great amount of extra survivability & versatility they get in return. However, rogues can naturally survive traps better, particularly those annoying ones with boxes on the far side or in the middle of the trap.

[ArcaneMelee]

...
My most important advice is this: be clear on what you want to get from the multiclass splash, and be clear on what you're giving up, before you even click the Create New Character button.

This. A thousand times this.

Once you know what you want to get from multiclassing, we can help you determine how.

[DrakHar]

Absolutely, for trap skills IIRC only a very focussed trapmonkey rogue can get higher search/disarm DCs than an rogue/wizard & they'd lose out on their other, more important functionality (namely being a backstabby killing machine), however the rogue/wizard only loses out on a relatively small amount of casting power for the great amount of extra survivability & versatility they get in return. However, rogues can naturally survive traps better, particularly those annoying ones with boxes on the far side or in the middle of the trap.

No way... insightful reflexes, and you've got as much reflex as the rogue... and pretty much most casters have more hp than most rogues. Not always, but rogues tend to be the most offensive of the "squishy" types.

And as far as experienced players go, most casters have huge con, most rogues can only afford 14. I love my rogue, but my 18/2 wizard is better in traps in every way than my rogue.

My rogue is more for sick DPS and "oh yeah, trapboxes..." as an afterthought. (Not that I blow them up, it's pretty easy to be "good enough" in traps in this game that you can almost ignore it).

[Uska]

wizard works best with wizard

[Kinerd]

The best split is 18wizard/2wizard... or 12wiz/6wiz/2wiz

they both work about the same

Bears repeating.

No way... insightful reflexes, and you've got as much reflex as the rogue... and pretty much most casters have more hp than most rogues. Not always, but rogues tend to be the most offensive of the "squishy" types.

Rogues have Improved Evasion, +3 base save, and +6 trap sense from rogue levels. As the Duck says, against anything but traps the wizogue is much more survivable, but in traps it's no contest. With that said, it's not like a wizogue is completely incapable of getting through traps, just that pure rogues have a much easier time.

[tinyelvis]

The best split is 18wizard/2wizard... or 12wiz/6wiz/2wiz

they both work about the same

^^^^^^ This by orders of magnitude is better than any other combination. Don't splash a wizard unless you are an uber player with uber loot and recognize that even though your toon will perform much poorer, that you will be able to overcome this with lots of high end loot, shear brilliance, game knowledge, and raw skill.

It seems to me if you have to post this question in the forums then you are not in the elite sub set of folks who can splash a wizard and make it work.

[MartinusWyllt]

... folks who can splash a wizard and make it work.

Right, has nothing to do with the actual goal for that toon. mathgirl123 might not be looking to solo epics on the toon's first life.

Bleh...totally failed to notice this thread was necro'd, so the OP is unlikely to actually be involved.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Bears repeating.Rogues have Improved Evasion, +3 base save, and +6 trap sense from rogue levels. As the Duck says, against anything but traps the wizogue is much more survivable, but in traps it's no contest. With that said, it's not like a wizogue is completely incapable of getting through traps, just that pure rogues have a much easier time.

That's what i was trying to say not that wiz/rogues are bad, just that a "proper" rogue is better in those traps... you can always roll a 1, and when that happens the extra "hidden" bonus to trap saves (since it doesnt appear in the relex saves part on your character sheet) plus "only ever take half damage anyway" from improved evasion can make all the difference especially on elite difficulty.