Evil Characters

[Hellforgewolf]

Personally, the one thing I've been wanting to see since i started DDO a bit over 2 years ago is the addition of the Evil alignment. There's no reason whatsoever that it can't be implemented.

I've heard several arguments against the idea, but here's the debunk for them all
1) This is not a family game. A family game would mean that it's appropriate for all ages, and I certainly ain't letting my 5 yr old play, so that argument is void. This game contains more violence than would EVER be healthy for anyone that has even the most remote problem with telling the real-world from a fantasy world. We kill other humans, we kill other sentient races, and we kill kill kill kill KILL!!!! I think there's one dungeon in the whole game that doesn't have enemies to kill, and your entire objective in there is to completely destroy someone's livelihood. Family game? I think not.

2) Evil wouldn't have an issue with any of the quests in the game. The reason? "Evil sows the seeds of it's own destruction." An evil person would help the Silver Flame out because the Silver Flame is giving them rewards. The Silver Flame is having them destroy the evil character's potential rival for power. And they are the only actually 'Good' aligned faction in the entire game. Everyone else is merely looking out for number one, and giving you a pat on the back for helping with that.

3) Even if you want to say that the Silver Flame, the only actual 'Good' aligned faction in the game, wouldn't hire evil mercs, it's easy. It's already in the game. just implement a small script to change an evil character's Silver Flame favor over to Emerald Claw. And since they are actively evil, according to the Silver Flame, and the two work together, that alone would debunk the theory that the Silver Flame wouldn't use someone it doesn't like to it's own ends. They'd just hope you die while completing the task.

4) Evil is far more likely do degrade themselves to helping people they don't like. Why? Because, you can always call in a marker later, you can always use a little extra cash, and you can always beat someone's face in if you don't like their attitude afterwards.

5) There are plenty of actions in the game that a supposedly 'Good' character can do that could easily be taken as evil, so the mechanics are, again, already there. Example include: Killing off and entire outpost of known-good creatures (you kill off an entire outpost of Eladrin, good aligned part-celestials) in order to find the whereabouts of one person, who turns out to be an evil Tiefling in the end. Not exactly something a good person would do. Killing a man who was trying to save his daughter, and simply made a horrible mistake in his grief-driven efforts (Mentos the Freshmaker... oh, wait... Mentau the Fleshmaker, sorry). Again, not exactly something a good person would do... they'd at least vie for him to surrender and live, rather than taking the course of murder first.

If anyone has more arguments against, feel free to post and I'll do what I can do politely debunk them. Thanks!

[Xenostrata]

They have already said that it isn't going to happen.

Also, on one note, 3) is incorrect. In Eberron, morality is much more subjective, so you'll have things like Lawful Evil clerics of the Silver Flame. To put it basically, in "normal" PnP alignment is used mostly for goals. In Eberron, alignment is used more for actions. An Evil cleric of the Silver Flame would be an Inquisitor or a Torturer, who knows that the cause he follows is necessary and that hurting and killing people is part of the job.

Hell, in Eberron you don't even have the "one-step" rule when it comes to your god.

[Grenada]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0011.html



Bring on the evil characters!

[Uska]

I am not going into this again except to say very bad idea and its not going to happen ever.

[Vellrad]

Yeah, and auto booting evil player when paladin joins team.
And evil aligment block with paladin in party.

[Pape_27]

I have seen several of these threads about evil alignment.

To those who want them, I just have to ask why? I mean, do you role play your alignment as it is now? If you had the evil alignment, would you role play that? If no to the former and yes to the later, why?

Or is it just to be able to say "I have an evil character!"?

I just dont get it.

[Ungood]

Has it been a month already?

Really, I wish people would use the search option before posting this.

Here is one, It;s kinda new. Well new enough to not necro it, if you posted there: Evil

Even if most of us wish this would stay dead, it keeps coming back. While I will not understand the fixation with wanting an Evil Alignment. It seems other people want this, I suppose maybe to justify greifing.

But. It keeps coming up: Again, and yet Again

Added Beyond this Point:

This was my Response to Evil as an Alignment. and I do not think it will change ... ever.

Another "I want Evil" Post.

Here is a "Why do people want Evil Topic"

Here is someone fussing about Drow being Evil

Another "I want Evil" Topic, and Yes... Another One

[Hellforgewolf]

Why do I want an evil alignment? Simple: If we get to kill the good guys, we should be allowed to be the bad guys. Also, it's a matter of gear. Maybe I want a Pure Evil weapon equiped before I have the UMD for it. Especially since some of my characters don't HAVE UMD.

Do I 'rp' my alignment? In an MMO, no. in PnP, yes.

If the topic is that bloody over done, whoop-dee-doo. That should just prove beyond a doubt that there are enough people that WANT it to be a feasible inplimentation. If you don't like it, stop reading the posts on it. Pretty simple.

Don't like PvP? Neither do I. I said nothing about implimenting PvP on a grand scale, leave it in the bloody taverns.

Turbine has already implimented methods for players to grief other players. Simple examples I can cite:
~ Those stupid pumpkin-head grenades a select fw people waste their time with making and then hitting people with ALL YEAR. I got nailed by someone with one of them two days before the Mabar festival reopened, they stockpile the bloody things. And, of course, the only way to prevent these is to waste YOUR time and resources on buying enough fo the 'party ****er' pots to last you until NEXT Mabar, where you get to spend the whole festival buying MORE of them.
~ Those "Icy Blast" pots/wands from the semiannual Risia festival that push you and knock you on your tail. I've been knocked off the ramp in the harbor by those, and gotten killed a couple times running new toons up to the bank to GET my FF item.
~ It's possible for a given player to simply let their party die at the end of a quest, especially the cleric or the wizard, depending on the quest, finish the quest, then leave everyone dead while they loot 'n' scoot. Only way around it is Syb cakes. From the DDO store. For Turbine Points.
~ I've seen plenty of trappers tell a party there's no trap, then laugh when people get killed in it.
So, no, adding evil alignment won't give people a REASON to grief others. There's already plenty of those. Only way around it is to make sure that EVERY character you have has Spot up to max, and has the highest end Spot gear you can find.

As to alignment blocks, nay. I say unto the, nay! 1) Tell me honestly that an evil person would have an issue with using a paladin as a meatshield. Try it. I'll laugh at you. Alot. 2) Paladins, even in PnP, are NOT forbidden from working with those of evil alignment. They are required to a) act as an example to all b) prevent evil people in their party from carrying out evil acts, and attempt to recompense the affected if they fail and c) do their best to reform evil, unless ordered to kill a specific person or it becomes a vital necessity to kill said evil person to preserve life. No ban against it, unless their patron diety expicitly forbids it, the vast bulk don't actually prohibit it, since that would cull the resources of the organization in general.

Xeno, again, simple script to rename those to Emerald Claw. Keep everything the same, except the name. They could even offer both choices to the neutrally aligned, to reflect the ability to choose with one's free will.

To Eladrin, if you ever look at this. Yes. I do realize precisely what the PnP manual says. But since you're using expansion manuals, I would like to remind you of a couple things, if I may:
~ DDO is only loosely based off of the PnP rules in many reguards. Prestige classes, for example, and the entire enhancement system in the first place, is nowhere in the manuals that I've seen.
~ The leveling system in the game is only loosely based off of the PnP system, requiring per rank in a given level the same amount of XP a given level would in PnP. This is perfectly understandable, since an XP requirement of only 390K would require either the reduction of XP on all quests by 80% or would make the leveling process WAY too easy.
~As the entire world of Ebberon is a suppliment to the PnP rules manual, I shall quote off a few things you may not have considered, or may have disreguarded as irrelevant.
-The 3.0 suppliment guide titled Evil.
-From the 3.5 suppliment Unearthed Arcanum, alternate base classes of Paladin of Slaughter and Tyranny.
-The Wizards of the Coast D20 suppliment The Book of Vile Darkness.
-The Wizards of the Coast D20 suppliment The Book of Exhalted Deeds. If you think that's a 'nice' book, then why was it sold shink-wrapped with a sticker on it saying "Intended for mature readers 18 and up"? Also, read it. It's even worse than the The Book of Vile Darkness, and it's all in the name of 'good'.
Just a short list, I could go on and on and on and... well, you get the idea. Even the PHB itself gives information on evil stuff, for the player that wants it.