Cleric 12 / Fighter 8. please advise.

[korsat]

every thing even with your esos crits with only 130s? i could probaly beat it. we will have to see once im in my final life.

no... I crit 130-140 with a ONE handed (brigand's cutlass tier2 from cove, crit 15-20/x2) weapon not with an esos. Mine is twf build. not sure you can crit such high also if you have 42 strenght...you still have 1d6 base damage and no divine might 3.
Probably you can have comparable dps, yes but with only 12 lvl of cleric you are more a melee that helps with a little aura than a real cleric. I prefer your other life 17cleric/2monk/1fighter and yes that is absolutly not bad, also if the 18 lvl of cleric gives you a better aura and more spells slots i would consider 18cleric/2monk and give up haste boost if you want evasion and unarmed.

[Stormraiser]

best dps cleric of all times possible! is 12 cleric 6 fighter 2 monk horc it is CRAZY! with 3 monk lifes and 3 fighter lifes it will dominate ANY cleric build out there and most dps builds. atm im planing on going 3 monk lifes and 3 fighter and will tr into that build once again.

Newsflash: Build with 6 past lives dominates DPS against lesser builds.

[ArcaneMelee]

...
There is a reason you see little to no 12/8 caster/melee builds around. Because it is weak at everything.
...

IMHO, it is tiring to fight the bias toward the Holy Trinity MMOs are built on. I've played several 12/6/2 caster melees (one cleric based, one sorc based, and one wiz based), and I consider them stronger than a pure melee.

The problem is that the game is slanted toward the MAX-DPS-MAX-CC-MAX-HEALZ play style - there's little reward for flexibility and self-preservation.

[Wwalmart]

i know past lives dominate ones with out but im talking about cleric builds with them as well.

130-140 per hand how offten do you crit did you take improv crit slash, my die on fists is 1d10 monk past life and out fit that gives a + as well. with the 12/6/2 its dot/fist dps orintated not heal but i can single target heal very well like in tod,chrono and i beleave i was doing around 80+ crits i cant remember for sure, and aura? i dont realy care for the aura any more mainly only if im a human with heal amp other than amp from dt... i mainly use the burst and devine might 2 is +4 3 is +6? not missing much if im gaining from the other lvls of things and i take quicken i would have deleted that toon already if i didint =D

[morticianjohn]

IMHO, it is tiring to fight the bias toward the Holy Trinity MMOs are built on. I've played several 12/6/2 caster melees (one cleric based, one sorc based, and one wiz based), and I consider them stronger than a pure melee.

The problem is that the game is slanted toward the MAX-DPS-MAX-CC-MAX-HEALZ play style - there's little reward for flexibility and self-preservation.

I think the game gives HUGE rewards for flexibility and self preservation. The problem is that many players don't recognize this. Also many players refuse to understand the limitations of their build. Like a 12/8 wiz/fighter getting upset over getting declined for a cc role.

[Riggs]

IMHO, it is tiring to fight the bias toward the Holy Trinity MMOs are built on. I've played several 12/6/2 caster melees (one cleric based, one sorc based, and one wiz based), and I consider them stronger than a pure melee.

The problem is that the game is slanted toward the MAX-DPS-MAX-CC-MAX-HEALZ play style - there's little reward for flexibility and self-preservation.

It is not players faults. Not entirely anyway.

Turbine designs content, high level content, around the high benchmarks attainable by the best possible stats/gear available. Players make characters around what the content 'expects', and plan raids around what they see as working with the least amount of resources used and least amount of deaths, and best chances to complete.

Some people are snobs just for the sake of it, but most people want to complete raids - not fail because half the group has 'flavor builds'.

People that like to solo can do whatever they want. No one is stopping anyone from making whatever they want and having whatever fun they want with it.

But this is a grouping game, and endgame content is far, far harder than everything else up to level 19.

it absolutely, positively, does not matter how great at self healing your melee is - if you have a melee with only 8 levels of a melee class, and the hp of 12 caster levels - and missing all the prestige lines, feats, and other enhancements that come from higher levels of melee - you are doing less damage than a dedicated melee.

And if you have 12 caster levels, whether it is cleric/arcane/whatever - you are not an actual caster for engame content. You cannot cc stuff, you cannot wail/implode/fod anything, and since most such builds have a lower casting stat in favor of str/con - basically no spells other than half str dots or bb will land.

So half the caster of a dedicated caster, less really counting all the crit enhancements you will not be taking, and less damage as a melee. That is not bias, opinion, or imaginary - it is just plain math and facts.

Yeah you can do a lot in many quests. You can do 'good' damage if you max strength and get good gear. But it is still less than a dedicated melee.

But in a raid, or epic quest/raid where someone else is spamming heals - being self healing and lower damage melee only means - you are a lower damage melee when people want a high damage melee for a melee spot. Any 18/2 or 20 barb/ftr/pally/monk/ranger is going to be doing more damage than a 12 cleric/8 anything else. No matter what weapons.

And if a quest takes twice as long because people that are supposed to be doing damage are doing much less damage than someone else would have - the quest takes longer, more people die from spam aoe or other monsters/effects, and the people actually doing healing have to start drinking pots to keep things going when they wouldnt have to otherwise.

I have made lots of self sufficient characters over the years, and a lot of them go on the shelf for new harder content because I am not going to keep TRing old builds that worked once, but new content makes much worse.

I like having fun, but a part of having fun is completing quests and raids without blowing a ton of resources to do it.

So again - what is the build for? Endgame content? or leveling and Tring. Or messing around with sub-level 20 content even after hitting 20? And by endgame I mean the hard stuff, not Bargain of Blood which is called 'epic' but is vastly different than say - Lord of Blades on epic. You dont see a lot of Tukaw builds filling up raids. There is a reason for that.

[ShadowFlash]

I agree that Extend AND quicken are both needed. Something to keep in mind though, which IMO pushes the choice towards quicken...is bursting. I know the aura is your point, but normal bursts are just to slow for the Oh Crud moments you might need 'em. A quickened burst is something I won't go without.

ShadowFlash