Cleric 12 / Fighter 8. please advise.

[Lauf]

Hi,

The basic idea behind the build is simple, be a fighter that walks around with a healing aura, constantly regaining health. melee singles, blade-barrier groups.

in order to achieve that we'll need 12 levels of cleric for the aura, all the cleric healing amps in order to make the most of it, human race for more healing amps, and as much punch and turn-undeads as we can pack (for permanent aura)

I've ran this build to 20 before, and with a vicious greatsword it was a great deal of fun to play. the main issue was the to-hit values. it required both divine power and divine favor on epics.
so I got a fighter past life and figured I'd give it another go. here's the build plan I have at the moment:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(8 Fighter \ 12 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 380
Spell Points: 565 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 5
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    24
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             14                    16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                    -1
Bluff                 2                     4
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy             2                     4
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     3
Heal                  0                     2
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            2                     4
Jump                  4                     7
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     0
Spot                  0                     0
Swim                  4                     7
Tumble               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Extra Turning


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Greatsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I

I'm finding it difficult to choose between quicken and extend.

you'll notice I only took 20% human healing amp, I'm planning to use a GS +30% healing amp weapon in order to free up some build points for other enhancements.

another similar option is going 12 cleric / 6 barb / 2 fighter, this will add vicious to my GS weapon, but losing the weapon focus feats worries me.
any improvements insights or suggestions you may have are most welcome

thank you.

[bigolbear]

my advice is simple.

if your symbol shows cleric, no matter how mele oriented you are pugs will always give you hasle if your not a capable party healer.

now for a very small dip on the mele dps you can open up much better casting (buffing, non save damage and healing in your case given a dump wisdom) and thus make the character way more pug friendly without detracting too far from the character goals.

Pls understand im not 'trying to tell you how to play' Infact i used to run a dwarven 'templar' (12 cleric 4 fighter) back when the cap was 16 and after playing this character for a few years, i had the joy of embarassing a fair few pure meles but unfortunately the constant hasle and false assumptions whenever i pugged.

Id say the character split looks fairly sound, but for stress free gaming its gona be a solo/guild/static group character.

from a numbers perspective id still go 17+ cleric these days even on a max str mele focus kinda battle cleric, the small loss of mele dps is more than made up for with some casting such as divine punishment and blade barrier, not to mention much easier buffing with things like mass deathward, mass prot energy. even if not building as primary healer.

edit: for reference my clerics are: wrothgar of orien, thorrun of galanda and garrel of galanda(the dwarven templar i mentioned) should u wish to myddo them for ideas.

[Adrian99]

The basic idea behind the build is simple, be a fighter that walks around with a healing aura, constantly regaining health. melee singles, blade-barrier groups.

The thing is, if you don't take 12 fighter levels, you're not a fighter in any way that matters. So the basic ieda behind this build can't be accomplished until level cap is 24, so you can take 12 fighter / 12 cleric.

[Lauf]

if your symbol shows cleric, no matter how mele oriented you are pugs will always give you hasle if your not a capable party healer.

all true. as I've said, I played it to level 20 once, and tbh once I hit the cap that stopped being an issue. I could easily heal normal pugs, and on epics/raids no one expected someone with 8 fighter levels to be a healer. especially once they saw my sp

so I'm willing to take some hassle while leveling. taken that into account.

from a numbers perspective id still go 17+ cleric these days even on a max str mele focus kinda battle cleric, the small loss of mele dps is more than made up for with some casting such as divine punishment and blade barrier, not to mention much easier buffing with things like mass deathward, mass prot energy.

the easier buffing is why I'm considering extend instead of quicken. as for the 17 level cleric, I played around with that concept at first, but the hp doesn't add up to anything meaningful, and the to-hit will be rubbish. so essentially at 17 cleric levels you are no longer a melee character, but a spell-caster. which is nice in its own right, it's just not what I aim to achieve with this one, since I enjoy getting down and dirty and cutting them down with a sword.

if you don't take 12 fighter levels, you're not a fighter in any way that matters.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement. if you're referring to kensai 2 boost that gives +4/+4, I can get +3/+3 with divine power, so that is not that big a difference.
especially when considering that divine power is sp based and not a clicky, and can essentially be up for as long as I want it to be.

take into account that I turn part of the healing I get from the aura into dps with a vicious weapon, so although I'm missing out on greater weapon specialization (+2 damage) and kensai 2 (+1 attack/+1 damage), I'm gaining 2d6 vicious damage that a normal fighter would avoid.
and to top it off this build will also have about 20hps per tick from the healing aura, and can self heal/buff.
so you get a great deal more than a normal fighter would have, and in exchange you miss out on very little IMO (+1 attack?) and with 8 fighter levels giving this build the full THF feat chain, as well as weapon specialization and focus, it has been my experience that the melee damage is on-par with most at level fighters.
so if the melee damage holds up, and the hit-points are there, why should it not be considered a fighter?

But I may have misunderstood what you've meant by your comment. if so, could you please elaborate?

[Kinerd]

you'll notice I only took 20% human healing amp, I'm planning to use a GS +30% healing amp weapon in order to free up some build points for other enhancements.

Enhancements stack with items. A 30% item and 20% enhancement is worse than a 30% item and 30% enhancement.

Have you considered 6 fighter / 2 monk rather than 8 fighter? If you're casting Divine Power and not taking Haste Boost 3 anyway, you don't lose much. You gain 2 Reflex just from the level split, giving you a base of 7.

7 base
3 6 dex item
1 2 dex tome
1 Kensei
5 resistance
4 GH
2 recitation
=
23

Which isn't great, but at the cost of nothing it's not bad, and there's room for more.

.

Now that I think of it, have you considered SD over Kensei? You would be at +4 net AP, you would shore up your HP a bit, and your DPS isn't terribly impinged only trading rank 1 for rank 1. The trick would be the -1 net feat, though. (edited to add) But then 2 monk / 6 fighter over 8 fighter would put you at +1 net feat, so...

[Enoach]

Since you have already leveled a 12/8 Cleric/Fighter to 20 you have insight on its strengths and weaknesses

On your next life attempting to do the same but better.

You already mentioned your To-Hit which base will be 16 (8 from Cleric 12 + 8 from Fighter 8) which by the way is 4 higher then a pure cleric and 4 lower then a pure fighter. You did mention that Divine Power was needed as well as Divine Favor to keep up. Not sure why this is considered a bad thing, its a very good method to make up this kind of ground, its actually what makes the Cleric aligned to melee when needed. If the issue is Spell Points, your melee use the Torc/Con-Op method. If the issue is duration, these short term buffs are what makes Extend Shine.

The good and bad about going Barbarian 6
Good

• More HP
• Rages
• Tier 1 of Frenzied
• Less Likely to be seen as a party healer
• Faster Movement

Bad

• While Raged you will not be able to use Most of your cleric abilities until you dismiss Rage
• Dealing with people that can't look beyond the Cleric Symbol
• Fewer Feats

My thoughts on your Feat choices, I noticed that you did not include any of the Active Past Life Feats that you have available Fighter or Cleric.
------------------------------
Fighter: can remember your martial prowess three times per rest, increasing your base attack bonus to your level and granting +4 to hit.

Cleric: 5 Casts Healing Word
------------------------------
The fighter feat would be an alternate solution for Divine Power+Divine Favor spell casting and could also be used to boost Higher due to the additional +4

Cleric healing word does not seem like a lot of healing, but you have already planned on taking Empower Healing so you already have a built in 50% boost, couple that with Superior Ardor you have 5 casts of healing that works even in anti-magic

Of the feats you have listed I could only see the Extra Turns at level 15 being an option, but I also realize this would take away 4 Turns

Cleric Gets you 3 + Charisma Modifier your base is 2 = 5 to Start. +6 Item brings you to 8 and +1 more from Enhancements brings you to 9. If you use the Aura only that is approximately 17 minutes of Aura. Four more turns would add 7 more minutes. So the question: Is 17 Minutes enough time between shrines? and is 24 minutes too long between shrines? Again this assumes only using Aura. I do see you planned for Divine Might I, so this could also be a concern on how liberal you want to use that to cut in on Aura time.

Those are just some thoughts.

Good luck with your build hope you find the balance you are after.

[morticianjohn]

the easier buffing is why I'm considering extend instead of quicken. as for the 17 level cleric, I played around with that concept at first, but the hp doesn't add up to anything meaningful, and the to-hit will be rubbish. so essentially at 17 cleric levels you are no longer a melee character, but a spell-caster. which is nice in its own right, it's just not what I aim to achieve with this one, since I enjoy getting down and dirty and cutting them down with a sword.

17/3 is much better or choose monk rather than fighter for evasion. You really aren't sacrificing that much in melee power and you gain a TON in way of healing, spell selection and even some DPS with divine punishment.

Your "to hit" should not suffer because a build like this will be keeping divine might and divine power active at all times anyway.

HP shouldn't be a problem as you can easily break 500 HP and if you go with evasion you'll find that the survivability is probably even better than a 12/8 without evasion.

if you had fun playing a 12/8 then great and more power to you as you do it again. However, the way your OP sounded it was like you wanted something more....

Enoach mentioned Barb. I love to see evasion on these melee clr/fvs types so maybe 12/6/2 with evasion and 6 barb levels.

[Lauf]

First off thank you so much for your replies.

Attack to-hit values
===============
I'll start with addressing the issue I have with the to-hit values. it's true that divine favor and power solve that problem, but when considering slayer areas, or longer runs, or times where I am forced into being a part-time healer, I can't afford to always keep them on, which is where my base attack value comes into play. if it's too low, then I will have a problem. I found that playing a 12 cleric / kensai 1, with 2 weapon focus feats (+1 to hit from kensai, +2 from feats) was enough to balance it out, and only on epics or certain bosses did I find a need to buff up with the spells.
as Enoach stated, this class mix placed me at -4 attack compared to a fighter, so when taking that into account it seems the +3 served to even out the field of play.

this is why I'm reluctant to take more cleric levels, or give up attack bonuses.


Level-Split
=========
having said that, I have been looking into the option of going 6 barb for the frenzy, since GS weapons do not come with vicious (which I found complimented the aura build). a monk splash may be a better route than the fighter splash I was thinking about, but aren't barbarians and monks alignment restricted (barb-chaotic, monk-lawful)? please correct me if I'm wrong.


Feats
=====
as for feats, if we're looking to squeeze more in what I'd do is opt for cleave instead of the THF 3 feat line (or take off as much as needed from it). this should free up a couple of feats, not to mention cleave is a requirement for the barb PrE anyway, so that choice may be mandated if I end up going with a cleric/barb split.

If the issue is Spell Points, your melee use the Torc/Con-Op method.

the issue with the build is spell points, not so much for personal use, I always have more than I need for self buffing and healing, but when serving a utility role - such as a party buffer or secondary/primary healer, you can run into sp issues since the build was not meant for those purposes. however, since there are times where the ability to serve such a role is in the party's best interest, I have (as you've hinted) made a con-op item to help out, still hunting down the torc...

My thoughts on your Feat choices, I noticed that you did not include any of the Active Past Life Feats that you have available Fighter or Cleric.

as you've noticed, even with 8 fighter levels I can just barely squeeze in all the feats you'd expect to find on such a build (melee/cleric/perma-aura). so while it is true the past lives have some nice uses, there's simply no room for them on this build as it stands.
the extra turns may seems exaggerated when considering aura up-time exclusively. I do tend to use the turns quite often for burst heals since being right there in the middle of the fighting group places me in the perfect position to help the healer out in tough spots.

Turns (turn undeads)
================
When it comes to turns, on the first life I had 14, and usually that was a bit much (as long as no one wanted DVs). I believe 12 is a better number, any less than that and you'll be left wanting.
as Enoach's count shows, at the moment the build reaches 13 (and thanks for turning my attention to the exact number) so I could move 2 points from Cha into Int, which would allow me to keep concentration maxed while putting points into balance and jump.

Healing aura
=========
the base amount of healing that the aura gives out to someone with no healing amps is 13 hit points per tick (as a level 12 cleric with empower healing on, enhancements as described). with 30% human healing amp I was able to get 16 from it, and since 13x1.3=16.9, I'm assuming the values are rounded down.
with that in mind, adding 20% healing amp would bring the value to 20 hit points (16.9x1.2=20.28) while adding 30% healing amp would result in 21 hit points (16.9x1.3=21.97)
now this is awfully close to 22 so naturally I will do some real life testing, playing around with the enhancements as needed, but at the moment assuming the values are 20 and 21, I am thinking that there may be a better use in the build for those 6 enhancement points rather than going after human healing amp 3.



I hope this clarified things a little, and again I would like to thank you for your help. the fact that you are willing to help improve this build rather than dismiss it, is greatly appreciated.

Have a happy weekend

[morticianjohn]

The more cleric levels the more SP you'll have to keep both DP's going. Also you save tons of mana by having efficient spells such as mass DW or mass heal. Remember that you'll want these spells active even when your "to hit" is not an issue as they add significant dps. You should play this build with the intent to keep these spells active between shrines.

I'm not dismissing the build. I am just recommending an alternative that stays true to the goal of being a melee specced toon who happens to carry the cleric icon. It does seem like a blast to play. Of course I played my 20 pure clr the same way at times.

Also I would recommend the morgana's ToD set for a build like this. More turns and +4 to hit.

[Lauf]

The more cleric levels the more SP you'll have to keep both DP's going. Also you save tons of mana by having efficient spells such as mass DW or mass heal.

while it is true that more cleric levels would result in more sp, the down side would be losing out on the feats, missing out on the fighter enhancements, both action boosts and flat damage/hit increases, and it will result in an overall less of a melee effective build as far as I can tell.

the upside you've mentioned, of having mass heal or mass buffs, is rarely an issue since the idea is not to be the party's healer, but rather be a fighter that, as you've put it, just happens to carry a cleric icon.
the spells I used to carry were geared towards self buffing, and since usually the buffs a party needed from me were fom/resists, mass buffs are rarely a consideration.

Also I would recommend the morgana's ToD set for a build like this. More turns and +4 to hit.

thank you very much, I was unaware of that set. I'll definitely try and get it.

[bigolbear]

thanks for taking the time to reply to my responce.

Regarding extend and quicken, to be frank I find on a battle cleric i need both. Extend to keep up divine power/favour and quicken for uninteruptable heals on my self while staying toe to toe. Id suggest going down the cleave route rather than 2 handed fighting to free up feats.

The 6 barb sounds very interesting i guess the trick would be getting your rage/divine power&favour and aura timers matching. serious potential here tho. If going this route and planning on using rage in additon to frenzy then quicken wont be needed, but extend probably will.

About the aura, if your realy lookign to maximise it then Id still advocate a higher amount of cleric lvls, and id advocate going with a monk splash for monk healing amp bonus. perhaps going half elf with monk dilly? although even with a dump dex a cleric can still get enough reflex with buffs to make evasion work. (recitation and holy aura + gh and resistance 5 is a whopping + 15 from buffs/gear alone.)

you say more cleric lvls leaves your to hit too low and hp too low? i disagree. more cleric lvls means keeping divine power up for longer(beter duration and more spare mana). Hp wise my 17/2/1 split is sitting prety at 500+ when buffed up and fighting and coupled with evasion i find thats more than enough to sit under a raid bosses nose.

A lot of the 'to hit' on a battle cleric can come from buffs and items, my 17/2/1 has a mere 25 str - you will have much more as you intend to be primary mele focus. I find with a decent weapon (eg GS great axe) and with divine power/favour up coupled with GH clicky i rarely if ever miss, can even hit malicia after tapping her with my rahls might.

The one BIG advantage i can see to a deeper split like you propose is that its not reliant on those buffs (although as BAB effects attack speed you should keep them up when u can). most battle clerics/battle arcanes tend to come unstuck when presented with enemies that dispell. A deep split like yours will be less effected.

Meh I'm rambling, whatever you decide on Im sure you will have a lot of fun on this character. best of luck and as my dad says 'nill illigitimum carbarundum - dont let the bastards grind you down'

[Lauf]

Regarding extend and quicken, to be frank I find on a battle cleric i need both. Extend to keep up divine power/favour and quicken for uninteruptable heals on my self while staying toe to toe. Id suggest going down the cleave route rather than 2 handed fighting to free up feats.

I agree. that's probably the best way to go with the feats on this one.

The 6 barb sounds very interesting

yeah, that's probably what the end build would look like (after I get all 3 fighter's lives under my belt for the attack bonuses, and won't need the fighter feats/enhancements)

you say more cleric lvls leaves your to hit too low and hp too low? i disagree. A lot of the 'to hit' on a battle cleric can come from buffs and items.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, and since buffs cap at cleric level 9, it basically all boils down to gear. if you're heavily geared with end-game epics/ shroud GS items, then even as a pure cleric you could do fine in melee. however if you're not, and your gear is more standard / middle of the road, as was and is mine, than you'll need to plan for all the hit points and the attack bonuses you can get your hands on, and you won't do too well as a purer cleric.
maybe in my next go around I'll have sufficient epic gear to consider investing in more cleric levels.


thank you for your input both now and earlier, I will probably go with the feat layout you have suggested, and will definitely look into incorporating a little monk into the mix.

[Wwalmart]

idk if im on topic or not but i went 12 cleric 4 monk 4 fighter no problems to hit or nothing um had empower quicken and extend picked up a monk life and now goign 12 cleric 6 fighter 2 monk im lvl 16 atm and its working fine first life was cleric 3rd is horc course whats the point of the aura now with only heal amp from dt or gs but i can fit in all the feats on a 12 6 2 handwrap build/2hf this life look me up Wwalmart of orien if im not on topic srry! if you have questions i dont look at fourms alot im usaly online in orien









some toon names wwalmart,egomaniac,twistedmetal,oemo,lagcity ones ill be manily on

[Lifespawn]

12 cleric 7 monk 1 ftr human or half elf with whirling steel strike got mine capped he does extremely well almost unkillable with his own aura replenished of sarlona he's not fully geared yet not even close but he does quite well

[Yin]

I am running a similar build. 12 cleric 6 pally 2 monk human.
I went two weapon fighting w longswords so I could stay in fire stance and use jitz bracers for stAcking 25% healing amp on top of human etc.
As far as pally instead of fighter or barb, I like pally for saves bonus, divine sacrifice for increase crit range and multiplier, smites, and Taking DOS for 10% to health, two extra turns, and increase to str and con. Also get the +1 to hit fromlongswords from pally (I forget if clerics get this too).
Only at level 6 so not sure how well it will work but glad to know others are having a good time.

[Wwalmart]

best dps cleric of all times possible! is 12 cleric 6 fighter 2 monk horc it is CRAZY! with 3 monk lifes and 3 fighter lifes it will dominate ANY cleric build out there and most dps builds. atm im planing on going 3 monk lifes and 3 fighter and will tr into that build once again.

[Arshan]

best dps cleric of all times possible! is 12 cleric 6 fighter 2 monk horc it is CRAZY! with 3 monk lifes and 3 fighter lifes it will dominate ANY cleric build out there and most dps builds. atm im planing on going 3 monk lifes and 3 fighter and will tr into that build once again.

It prolly wont imo

18 cleric 2 fighter eSOS beats it hand down i think. Oh well gotta crunch numbers but i dont like to splash more than 2 or 3 lvls on fvs and clerics

[korsat]

Gtwf cleric18/fighter2 strenght and charism based with divine might 3 and 22 turn undead is the best cleric dps i know. Kensei1 doesn't really add such high dps.

Take a look at this http://my.ddo.com/character/argonnessen/avenlight/ 38 strenght with ship+rage, over +50 to hit with warpriest set+divine power+divine favor, 2d6+14strenght+6divine might+6weapon+2ship+3divine favor+5power attack=2d6+36, avarage 42 base damage that becomes 42*1.25=63 damage with human damage boost4, then add bursts effects and +9 sneak attack damage. I crit for around 130-140 with the epic ring of the stalker(+6seeker) and I crit 15-20/x2, the vorpal also adds 100 damage every 20 I roll...
501 hp just with ship buffs, 1500 sp(+bouble) and 22 turn undead attmpts are all I need to heal in raids and epics. Solo healed shroud yesterday without problems.
Do you think there are better dps battleclerics around?You can be top dps without renunce too much at the healing ability.

[Wwalmart]

My ddo wwalmart and look at my horc life and my human life, human life as 17 2 1 and horc as 12 6 2 on the 12 6 2 horc i had base 42 str i had fighter haste 2 i was doing around 55 to mid 60s or more cant remember at this moment over 60+ to hit my end build will be with epic gloves of claw trinket from chrono 3 piece set gs googles or if need more to hit the +4 to hit gogs from fens with monk speed and every thing even with your esos crits with only 130s? i could probaly beat it. we will have to see once im in my final life.

[Riggs]

What is the goal?

Endgame build that will not TR anymore after this life? or simply leveling up and then TR again right away?

Quicken is mandatory at higher levels. No amount of concentration helps when you get hit for 100-200 damage in 1-2 seconds. Which is exactly when you need a heal RIGHT NOW and not after a couple failed attempts. Because after 1-2 failed attempts you are dead.

Extend is optional, buffing is annoying, but you probably wont die from having to do it more often. But with only 12 cleric levels, no buffs are going to last long enough, so you will have to cast everything you need twice as often. And forgetting to refresh deathward at the wrong time will kill you on a failed fod save for example.

So again - what is your endgame goal. There is almost nothing 8 levels of fighter gives you that makes up for what you lose from cleric levels. A few points of damage, a few more hp - in exchange for half strength healing, no real offensive cleric spells other than a middling bb.

17 cleric/2 monk/1 ftr or 18/2 builds give way more benefits, and still provide almost as good melee ability. Throw a divine punishment on your target, then start hitting, and that more than overshadows losing a couple points of damage per hit. And even if your dc sucks, Implosion deals 100 damage on a save per tick.

There is a reason you see little to no 12/8 caster/melee builds around. Because it is weak at everything.

If all you are doing is playing around in level 16 stuff like vale/shroud and are not setting foot in harder content, it doesnt really matter too much. but if you are planning on playing higher level content...well then it matters a lot more.