Pugs and Sarlona

[LordPiglet]

You are some nice exception then, too bad I can't catch you online to raid with you, anyway the fact that I am in a channel doesn't change my opinion about it or them in general and here its about PUGs really and they are dead on Sarlona, even chinese don't play so much recently, or at least they don't pug. And also piglet... So we had a public MA last week? Really? Wow! So 1 public MA in almost 2 months since those are out, and not even LoB, its MA that can be pretty much completed by 3 people on normal without using pots and this is suppose to show that PUGs on Sarlona are not dead? Cause it kinda shows the opposite to me...

That's funny, as I pugged my first 2 MA completions, the first week of U11. I've ran it with channel once, and am pretty sure I was the only one with a completion on that run. I actually do need MA, but honestly, I never see them up in the LFM or even in channel. Correction, there was a channel run earlier this week, I was on my TR, there was also at least 1 MA up.

It's not that MA isn't available to the public, it's just not being run. Frankly, I don't think LoB is being run all that much either by the general public. I know some people are running it, I saw it ran multiple times, open to puggers the last 2 weekends.

[Chai]

You are some nice exception then, too bad I can't catch you online to raid with you, anyway the fact that I am in a channel doesn't change my opinion about it or them in general and here its about PUGs really and they are dead on Sarlona, even chinese don't play so much recently, or at least they don't pug. And also piglet... So we had a public MA last week? Really? Wow! So 1 public MA in almost 2 months since those are out, and not even LoB, its MA that can be pretty much completed by 3 people on normal without using pots and this is suppose to show that PUGs on Sarlona are not dead? Cause it kinda shows the opposite to me...

Ive got 7 completions of MA and 5 LOB. All LFM PUGs, not even channel or guild.

Obviously they arent as common as Shrouds or TODs, but they do pop up enough where I have been able to get in on more than a few.

[AMDarkwolf]

Most of the time, anything the soulless tools say on forums is just more of the 'bearing the flag saying I'm an ass' but in this case, emaq is right. Ive noticed it too as well as many others, i am not sure what its attributed too, if its vets leaving and new players just not 'trying' or if its just a massive wave of people wanting a 'easy ride' but its there. Most raids in the past u could have pulled off with 3-4 decent people with 8-9 people half-assing it, and getting completions.

But recently, its exactly as he says, sub par gears(Where better is quite easily obtainable), **** builds(Just tossin points into whatever each level) and those who don't listen to voice, dont' read chat, and just 'do' stuff till they die and someone carries them to the end.

I think some of this can be blamed on the rush to TR. Many think TRing gives u power, more than a few runs of shroud, or a little time fleshing out a toon, or gathering gear(No I'm not talking about farming raids for gear, but the very basic stuff that DOES take some farming to get but will make your game easier)

I Wish that we had more people asking for help, really wanting to 'do' something rather than just whatever... Hox is a prime example, 9 out of 10 times, when u take 11 unknowns along, no matter how often u stress how and what to do, people WILL always do something else.

+1 to emaq for this because I think he hit the nail square on the head. Yup, even a stopped clock can be right twice a day

[Tobril]

I'm a helper. (or at least am going to try)


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=1#post4157278

[caberonia]

I think some of this can be blamed on the rush to TR. Many think TRing gives u power, more than a few runs of shroud, or a little time fleshing out a toon, or gathering gear(No I'm not talking about farming raids for gear, but the very basic stuff that DOES take some farming to get but will make your game easier)

While that may be true for some, Other simply don't want to deal with the requirements set by the "raid gods" on what a perfectly min maxed char should be to run a raid. Rather then worrying about spending a month farming for stuff so they can farm for stuff in raids, or building a character to please the raid gods. They just TR and continue to play the game the way they enjoy it. Its not that they don't want to run raids etc, its that if given the choice of playing and building a character the way they want it and doing raids.. some choose the former, others the latter.

I can't speak for everyone. But after I'm bored of TRing maybe i'll make a "raid approved" build.

[AMDarkwolf]

While that may be true for some, Other simply don't want to deal with the requirements set by the "raid gods" on what a perfectly min maxed char should be to run a raid. Rather then worrying about spending a month farming for stuff so they can farm for stuff in raids, or building a character to please the raid gods. They just TR and continue to play the game the way they enjoy it. Its not that they don't want to run raids etc, its that if given the choice of playing and building a character the way they want it and doing raids.. some choose the former, others the latter.

I can't speak for everyone. But after I'm bored of TRing maybe i'll make a "raid approved" build.

The point here is this does NOT apply to those who tr again and continue on, as long as they take the care to get gear which helps.

And when I say 'get geared' I don't mean farm shroud 100 times, do vod 60 times, do tod 40 times. I mean the very basic simple things like fort 100% (20 taps), +6 stat gear(LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTS of easy to get options WITHOUT crafting, HELL even +5' works) Greater false life(Couple runs in amrath and POW there ya go, +6 con and GFL in ONE ITEM, YAY) and so on.

What it comes down to is u see what some of the ******s ingame 'expect'(Soulless some of your people are guilty of this attitude) and u say 'well f-it, i won't bother' instead of 'i'll do the best I can do'

I'm sure theres tons of old vets willing to suggest MANY easy options/alternatives to much of the 'required' stuff your thinking of, and i'm also sure that 80% of those old vets would be willing to HELP u get said gear.

[caberonia]

The point here is this does NOT apply to those who tr again and continue on, as long as they take the care to get gear which helps.

And when I say 'get geared' I don't mean farm shroud 100 times, do vod 60 times, do tod 40 times. I mean the very basic simple things like fort 100% (20 taps), +6 stat gear(LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTS of easy to get options WITHOUT crafting, HELL even +5' works) Greater false life(Couple runs in amrath and POW there ya go, +6 con and GFL in ONE ITEM, YAY) and so on.

What it comes down to is u see what some of the ******s ingame 'expect'(Soulless some of your people are guilty of this attitude) and u say 'well f-it, i won't bother' instead of 'i'll do the best I can do'

I'm sure theres tons of old vets willing to suggest MANY easy options/alternatives to much of the 'required' stuff your thinking of, and i'm also sure that 80% of those old vets would be willing to HELP u get said gear.

yes I understood what you meant. But for example my main http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/fistalis/ Has the very basics to run some raids and easier epics etc. (other than i haven't used any tomes this life). I still tend to avoid raids/epics simply because of the general attitude of people towards a fleshy archmage. (*** you should be a necro you suck etc etc.)
The OP wonders why the PUG scene sucks.. its because those who as I stated aren't using "raid/epic approved builds" don't bother to learn them. Fistalis in his first life was pretty much shunned by epic/raid groups.. now in his second life I don't/won't even bother to try to join them.

It's pretty much drilled into newer players heads that either you run a pre approved build or you don't run epic/raids. And many have just written off the epic/raid scene for now. When they feel like joining one they will take the time to build a character that meets the "standards" set by most of the raid/epic leads.

Now let me clarify something. I'm not stating that certain standards or requirements are not reasonable. Just that they don't fit everyones play style. Its more of an issue with the the way the Endgame is designed. Min/maxers want a challange and the devs respond. However this causes those like me (some may refer to as casuals, but simply put non power gamers) to avoid that entire scene. When these type of people hit 20 they have 2 options. TR or LR/GR to totally rebuild themselves to meet the criteria for endgame. Given the general attitude towards people who don't know raids/epics its an easy choice for most.

(good example.. that run they are setting up for new people requires 300 HP.. i'm sitting at 260 at lvl 18 granted I dont have my favor bonus yet and haven't used any tomes but I'm still shy of the minimum, so rather than bother with it I simply skip raids/epics and i'll TR again when I hit 20.)

(another good example.. i don't have a napkin which is a nice piece for a wiz.. i could spend the next month waiting for my raid timer so I can hit my 20th run and get one or i can TR and spend the next month leveling a new life.. when given that option again i'll choose to TR)

I've never even ran a single shroud due to the general negative reaction of those who do towards me. Not to mention the never ending shroud drama posts complaining about X newbie or Y persons build certainly don't make me want to run them. This is why I TR.. because end game just isn't a friendly scene in general. I'd rather be running around on my 2nd or 3rd life at lvl 6 than listening to people complain about my build choices or gear for the 10th time in x raid/epic run.

(of course this is all ignoring the fact that most of the end game is around gaining high level gear of which most of it is useless a majority of the time on a char who is constantly TRing but thats another subject)

[mudfud]

My 220hp rogue does just fine in shroud, hox, vod, lob, ma, reaver, abbot, dq, von6 on normal, hard and elite and epic for those that can be.
Have some sense of tactics and what your character can do and you're just fine. My next challenge is to get even less HP and continue raiding just fine like I've been.

[Chai]

One thing Sarlona is still plagued with is alot of leaders cant get their heads out of the old school. Casters being declined due to a normal Shroud already having 2 in the group, on top of the "only a bard can charm the dogs" mentality in hound. What are the odds that these are the same people who look people up on MyDDO and dont see an epic claw set, then deny non epiced melee from quests like snitch and BoB?

[mudfud]

One thing Sarlona is still plagued with is alot of leaders cant get their heads out of the old school. Casters being declined due to a normal Shroud already having 2 in the group, on top of the "only a bard can charm the dogs" mentality in hound. What are the odds that these are the same people who look people up on MyDDO and dont see an epic claw set, then deny non epiced melee from quests like snitch and BoB?

Yes, exactly. I've been a firm believer of the first 11 who click join get in. With exceptions of course for the new raids and epic raids that actually need a healer.

If leadership is up to the task of actually leading any group can succeed.

[Sithias]

What it comes down to is u see what some of the ******s ingame 'expect'(Soulless some of your people are guilty of this attitude) and u say 'well f-it, i won't bother' instead of 'i'll do the best I can do'

I'm still trying to wrap my head around Soulless being the only guild mentioned BY NAME as being guilty of having the elitist, a**hole attitude you are screaming about. Kuff brought up a good point and suddenly when a 300hp, 0% heavy fort cleric or a fighter wearing the Korthos set into EV6 is denied, and yes both of these happened in the same EV6 the other night, everyone is in an uproar about it.

Soulless is not the only guild out there that doesn't take undergeared toons into raids/epics, but I guess we are the best since we have been mentioned by name. As my sig says, Aggro one thread at a time. :P

[zorander6]

I don't raid, I don't have a level 20 and I've been playing 2+ years. Why? I'm married. I'm lucky to get an hour or two a week to spend trying to farm a raid for the items in the raid so I can farm a raid. My wife plays occasionally, but not often. I'd love to have greensteel and all the pretty weapons and armor but I've accepted it won't be possible. Then add in the "you must have raid item xyz in order to run my raids" and I just don't bother. I'd love to join tobril's raid on Thursday but I know that won't happen since any time I plan something DDO related something else comes up.

Then comes the "you've played 2 years and haven't TR'ed 10 times and gotten all the pretty raid items?" No sadly I haven't. I'd like to, and before I was married I'm sure that I'd have done so but right now it's out.

[Vanquishedfo]

Now I am not from sarlona, just saw this thread on current topics and thought id offer my 2 coppers.

From my view its really not about a lack of GOOD players as some leetist seem to imply, its actually a lack of good content in that the current raids and epics all largely fail to be fun and enjoyable. You either have to zerg through them to get them done in a timely manner which requires at least a leader and maybe more having a fair bit of prior experiance, or you spend gawd awefully long amounts of time that often lead to a failure that does anything but encourage players to come back when it just waisted thier limited amount of game time. Some think taht is Challenging design but its not, its lazy and outright bad design f your trying to encourage people who value RL to still want to enjoy your game as a casual hobby.

A good example of the differnece would be between city of heroes and thier typical Task Force, and DDO and its typical raid. COH you on a AVERAGE team can complete a typical task force in between 45-90 minutes, with plenty of moments of tense battle, and potentially a near wipe or two. Should someone have to log out during it due to RL issues they still will have thier experiance for kills and mission completions leading up to that point in the task force. Should someone choose to quit for any reasin they cant rejoin and have effectively been perma killed in the eyes of the TF until its over and the group can again recruit new members. Your never punished for having a RL and needing to log, but if you chose to quit then you are quitting completely from that current TF. Logging back in you will still be on the team as that place will remain effectively reserved for you and cant be filled by a new member being recruited.

In DDO on the other hand if you have to log your screwed but if you stay in and pike its no big deal this is becuase DDO failed by making raids a single overly long mission typically and gives leaders no chance to remove disruptive or useless party members in a way that wouldnt be able to be abused to deny actually contrbuting players to earn at least a share fairly earned even if kicked out after the first part.

I know i am rambling on at this point its a hugely complex issue but one that clearly exist because if DDO raids where more player friendly they would be played more simple as that

[mudfud]

Soulless is not the only guild out there that doesn't take undergeared toons into raids/epics, but I guess we are the best since we have been mentioned by name. As my sig says, Aggro one thread at a time. :P

I would agree except that 1 person who keeps bringing up your guild in all his posts isn't really right in the head. We all know this.

[AMDarkwolf]

I would agree except that 1 person who keeps bringing up your guild in all his posts isn't really right in the head. We all know this.

lol i just love ribbing them.. they have all types in the guild, and when i see people doing things/saying stuff I hear people complain about(IE Like the 'u must have x hp') i just think of the elitist attitude they can have.

Its all in fun cuz for the most part soulless is a solid group of people. Its just very fun watching the ant hill go nuts when u say ANYTHING even slightly negative about them

[mudfud]

lol i just love ribbing them.. they have all types in the guild, and when i see people doing things/saying stuff I hear people complain about(IE Like the 'u must have x hp') i just think of the elitist attitude they can have.

Its all in fun cuz for the most part soulless is a solid group of people. Its just very fun watching the ant hill go nuts when u say ANYTHING even slightly negative about them

Yeah I do the same thing. Not with them, but others. It's fun to watch the reaction you know and expect to happen, happen.

[Ilindith]

I would agree except that 1 person who keeps bringing up your guild in all his posts isn't really right in the head. We all know this.

lol i just love ribbing them.. they have all types in the guild, and when i see people doing things/saying stuff I hear people complain about(IE Like the 'u must have x hp') i just think of the elitist attitude they can have.

Its all in fun cuz for the most part soulless is a solid group of people. Its just very fun watching the ant hill go nuts when u say ANYTHING even slightly negative about them

Yeah I do the same thing. Not with them, but others. It's fun to watch the reaction you know and expect to happen, happen.

[mudfud]

I think this one is more suitable, but I can understand why you wouldn't want to use it again so close to using it previously.

[Emag]

PUGs on Sarlona are not dying, they are dead, since u12, maybe even before that. Failure rate in PUGs for things like ToD even is well above 50%, successful filling rate of pure PUGs (unknown leader + 2-3 of his friends) is probably like 2% and only if they are reeeeaaaally patient to wait 4 hours And don't advise people to join raiding channels, that is the biggest problem actually, the few remaining people on the server that can complete a raid are so capsulated in their guilds/channels they wouldn't take even experienced players unless they are in their channel and/or guild (best in both), occasionally they might take a healer, but only if it takes more than 30 minutes to find one in channel/guild, after my.ddo check and at least 5 vouches from the other members of the party. So yeah situation is horrible, but channels are not the answer, they are the problem

I don't even know who you are.

[moops]

The Event just ended 2 days ago. . .2 events in a row combined with new raids, the old stuff took a hit.

But I think it's almost back to normal,Today I've already seen 2 MA and one LOB, many TODs.

The past couple days and even during the event I pugged EDA, and have continued to see LFMs for house P and D epics, as well as Red Fens.

Incentive has a lot to do with what LFMs go up. I tend to lead, however since I don't need anything from evon6 and most epics, I'm pretty much just doing the 2 new raids and then EDA for the tasty goodies that drop.