Pugs and Sarlona

[moops]

Random screenshot I took tonight, 7 Epics, both easy and hard, and none of them saying experience required




But on that note I did get frustrated enough to actually leave a pug VOD led by my guildie today as someone in the group didn't not like the tanking assignments and started to give orders and then argue about it and caused confusion as we had newer players in the group. We reformed and shortmanned it.

Somedays, like Sam says, I just don't have the patience, and I'm not going to waste resources because someone thought that they should take over a raid and give orders, and a couple other new players/unfamiliar players listened.

If you don't have the star, then listen to the leader--you know in 2 mins if your leader is actually a leader and It's quite obvious we knew what we were doing, and there are also more than 2 ways to do each raid. There are reasons that we sometimes do things the way we do.

Really, I drag all sorts of 200-300HP new people on raids with me all the time, but today I got discouraged enough to never want to pug again--it's not with the quality of gear people have, it's with the narrow minded people whom think that everything should be done one way, even if it costs pots.

[talas300]

Im a vet have been playing this game since beta and i have stopped pugging lately because most new players refuse to listen, case in point i posted a zerg ww elite lvl 4 byoh Im on my fvs who doesnt even have a heal spell mem'd yet simply cause i havent needed a heal spell. get a tell from a new player on a dwarf barb take him tell him out front i dont have any healing get to part 1 tell him to not go through the dorr there is an acid trap first thing he does is jump in the acid trap and ask me for a heal after I told him less than 2 minutes before i didnt heal at all he then dies in the fire trap gets rezzed at the shrine then dies again at the right crystal yells at me for not healing him and drops group. Im not against teaching new people if they would just listen. If Im running a shroud i will take the first 11 people to hit the lfm cause i know if push comes to shove i can solo pretty much the entire quest same with reaver and the other older raids so im not completly new person unfriendly

[slarden]

I am in a very small guild that is rapid leveling so we are limiting our membership. I have been invited to and participated in raids organized by other guilds but for the most part join PUGs. It's been a long time since a raid failed and it was part 2 of the shroud when one ore more people didn't understand that the bosses had to go down at the same time even with repeated voice and text messages explaining it. Other than that it always succeeds.

My cleric can almost guarantee a shroud will not fail regardless of the gear and dps of the rest of the team. Of course that means taking a pot from time to time but I still get more than I use in raids. As a cleric all I have to do is make sure there are no deaths in part IV and it's guaranteed success.

There are a few guilds that I will not join for raids because they expect me take pots to save them 20 seconds in part V. Other than that I have no problem using pots because the team is less-experienced or less-geared. There are always going to be people that play once in a while and don't know all the tips and tricks. Just like there will always be people that walk the fine line between hobby and disorder and get every piece of epic gear and understand every aspect of the game.

[Marquin]

I was on that VoD posted by Moops (post # 81). In fact, I was the fighter who used intimidate on Sully once, but I would like to make it clear that it was not because some other player (the one that was arguing on the tank assignments, but that’s not the point) told me to do so.

I’m not new/unfamiliar to VoD, and have done it many times on many kinds of toons (melee, healer, bard and arcane). I know how it works. I also know that nothing was wrong with the tank assignments (the tank was a very capable FvS, and it actually makes the thing easier IMO, because when sully teleports, he goes back to the tank fast due to the DOT spell on him). But, as we all know, now the hp number appears on the red bar. At a given time, the tank hp went a little below 100 ( I don’t remember the exact number). I saw that and reacted, hitting the imtimi hot key. I couldn’t help it, some things we do due to habit (and a defender build, you know, sometimes defends). Then, I shield blocked until the tank had aggro again, witch was pretty fast. I was even using tharnes, for the -20% hate, as the leader said to take off hate stuff.

Was it the right thing to do? Appears it was not, because all I heard after was “What do you think you’re doing?”, “you won’t get healed from now on”, and the like. I then wrote on the chat saying that I got the situation wrong, and would not intimidate again unless told to do so by the leader, but looks like it wasn’t enough. I don’t remember exactly what happened after, because I was pretty busy trying to keep myself alive with heal scrolls (have the UMD, but the heavy armor does not helped at the time ^^). Maybe the player that was arguing from the beginning continued to argue, I don’t know, but the tank said something on the voice chat and then quit the raid. After that, the rest of the players left too.

I tried to clarify things to the player via pm, but looks like I got squelched immediately (I may be wrong and the player maybe just dc’ed, but its unlikely, since moops posted that they reformed and shortmanned it).

If you feel discouraged by narrow minded people, please try not be one yourself. I don’t mean to be rude at all, but assuming that one player acted due to another players order (other then the raid leader), is kinda narrow minded, I think.

Some people in Sarlona nowadays tend to transform trivial things that happens in quests into big ugly life or death dilemmas. The quest was perfectly under control. Nothing was indicating any chance of failure. What ended the raid prematurely was a discussion on voice/chat. IMHO, rage quit is never the answer, nor is squelch people left and right, without giving the opportunity to try to show the bigger picture (or at least their opinion) in any given situation.

I'm glad the situation was posted here on this thread, as at least here I have the opportunity to explain the whole thing in my point of view.

[Original]

I was gone for 6 months and have been back for 2 months. I have always been a pugger and never bothered to use chat channels. Not sure what happened when I was gone, but pugs are horrible at levels 17-20. Not a fan of chat channels, LFM system always worked fine. But I am tired of seeing -25% fort when I myddo fighters lol. And I never liked being in a large guild, so looks like I will have to cave into chat channels to make the game worthwhile.

[Dexxaan]

I blame those soulless gimps

/Agree.


Ever since they raised the bar so high..... the rest of us are now guilty of falling behind. *sniff sniff


I for one have changed my game-approach: I will create the ULTIMATE KORTHOS DOMINATOR build and never take Level 4!



.




.

[Kages]

What is level 4? I thought that was a myth only obtainable by those so few lucky elitists that work so very hard playing 3 days straight.

[Ilindith]

Im a vet have been playing this game since beta and i have stopped pugging lately because most new players refuse to listen, case in point i posted a zerg ww elite lvl 4 byoh Im on my fvs who doesnt even have a heal spell mem'd yet simply cause i havent needed a heal spell. get a tell from a new player on a dwarf barb take him tell him out front i dont have any healing get to part 1 tell him to not go through the dorr there is an acid trap first thing he does is jump in the acid trap and ask me for a heal after I told him less than 2 minutes before i didnt heal at all he then dies in the fire trap gets rezzed at the shrine then dies again at the right crystal yells at me for not healing him and drops group. Im not against teaching new people if they would just listen. If Im running a shroud i will take the first 11 people to hit the lfm cause i know if push comes to shove i can solo pretty much the entire quest same with reaver and the other older raids so im not completly new person unfriendly

That really annoys me too and is part of the reason of why I sometimes just don't feel like teaching others anymore. If I put up an LFM with specific requirements, 90% of those that join won't even fit. As in

Know the way (cause we're in progress) - Person join, is this f2p or p2p can you share please...
Heal yourself (cause I won't wait for a healer to get started) - Person keeps dying, never even use ONE potion...
Be flagged - Person joins. Have you done von1-4? What's that? ...

They don't even make the effort to read ONE SENTENCE on the LFM panel or just pretend they understand it and click to join. Pro-tip, if you don't know what something means in the LFM description, SEND A TELL AND ASK WHAT IT MEANS FIRST. I'm tired of getting people that think BYOH means bring your hireling -.-

Now on the rare occasion that I will not post LFMs like this, I will explain everything essential along the way in the quest, or before we get to certain parts. But then no one listens. If you're gonna join a group and you've never done a certain quest before then YOU BETTER AT LEAST LISTEN TO INSTRUCTIONS GEEZ. Whatever I say seems to be completly ignored.

Okay, I will admit, sometimes people listen! Like one time I had a byoh, know quest etc party for Genesis Point and I got a tell from someone saying he had never done it. Told him we were inside and that if he could get there I had no problem explaining things to him. He got there with a map (read: MADE THE EFFORT TO LEARN BY HIMSELF) and then listened to everything I said during the quest and didn't do anything wrong and I pretty much explained everything I could think of. Now the sad thing is...I only get people like that like...once a week...or more.

If you want to get into something you've never done before. It is very simple what you have to do.

1. Whatever the LFM says, you send a tell to the leader and you tell him/her that you have never done this before and if they mind you joining even if you are new. You won't get anywhere if you don't even TRY to do this. That's how I got into every single raid I had never done before back then. Trust me, IT WORKS. That way the leader will know that you are new and most of them will explain stuff because of it. Trying to sneak in without saying you are new is NOT the way to do it and will only make the situation even worse when they find out you are a noob, and trust me, it's easy to spot.

2. LISTEN TO VOICE CHAT. You are there to learn, put your god **** headset on and listen if the group is giving instructions on voice. If you don't have one, go buy one, if you can't use it, don't join a quest that will require you to listen to instructions if you are new. I may sound like an ass on that one but seriously, if you don't even make the minimal effort to give yourself the means to hear the instructions then you deserve all the party declines in the world.

3. READ PARTY CHAT. If the group is not using voice chat, THEN READ. If there's too much stuff in your chat, just edit your party tab and remove everything so you can only see that.

4. ...There is no 4, that is ALL you need to do to get into new quests/raids and learn. Simple isn't it? Yet barely anyone I encounter can do this. And everytime I get someone that can't listen I feel less and less like teaching... Can anyone really blame me for being like this?

[Tobril]

2. LISTEN TO VOICE CHAT.

Cue angry response from a deaf person...

[Ilindith]

Cue angry response from a deaf person...

Would be silly to get angry because I did not include every possible situation. I'm not a ******bag, if I get a person like that I'll just deal with it and type stuff as long as I am informed of the situation.

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

Speaking of which, I had a hearing impaired person the other week around when we were doing necro runs..maybe shadow crypt not sure. And yes I typed and sent tells to him as needed, and told the party to do the same so they knew not to try to communicate with him in voice chat, and no problems occcurred. Think Distributed it was morning shadow crypt runs so you may not have been on, but its all a blur to me.

[Galeria]

Just to toss this in there, a friend of mine has stopped playing because she is deaf and got tired at being type-yelled at for not having speakers/mic.

Which is sad. She was a lot of fun.

[mudfud]

Dang this thread is still going!?! Thought we would have moved on to update 12 drama by now.

To all the people who say they are contemplating quitting because 1 or 50 people out of 5000+ don't let you in there lfm's go ahead and quit.

To all the people who say they can't get in lfm's for whatever reason but continue to refuse to make there own lfm, go ahead and quit. Safe us all the grief later of having to read it on the forums where maybe 1% of the playerbase goes.

To all the people who will want to complain in the future about stuff that's been complained about and will not change unless you change it, go ahead and quit.

A person can only make a mistake once. The 2nd+ time it happens is by choice.

[Postumus]

Just to toss this in there, a friend of mine has stopped playing because she is deaf and got tired at being type-yelled at for not having speakers/mic.

Which is sad. She was a lot of fun.

I'm not deaf, and I have NEVER in over a year of playing in PUGs on Sarlona ever been griefed for not using the mic, nor have I EVER seen anyone else griefed for this.

[Tobril]

I'm not deaf, and I have NEVER in over a year of playing in PUGs on Sarlona ever been griefed for not using the mic, nor have I EVER seen anyone else griefed for this.

There are a few "leaders" who will boot you for not using mic, even if you type that you can hear but are unable to use mic for whatever reason.

[mudfud]

There are a few "leaders" who will boot you for not using mic, even if you type that you can hear but are unable to use mic for whatever reason.

Yeah I've actually seen alot of lfm's like this over the past month. Requiring a person to have and use mic in the lfm.

[Postumus]

There are a few "leaders" who will boot you for not using mic, even if you type that you can hear but are unable to use mic for whatever reason.

That may well be, but my point is in the countless PUGs I've been in on Sarlona, I've never once encountered them so it is hardly a rampant problem on the server.

[LordPiglet]

Yeah I've actually seen alot of lfm's like this over the past month. Requiring a person to have and use mic in the lfm.

And those are some of the lfm's that take a long time to fill. As I said, there are reasons certain lfm's don't fill.

[moops]

I was on that VoD posted by Moops (post # 81). In fact, I was the fighter who used intimidate on Sully once, but I would like to make it clear that it was not because some other player (the one that was arguing on the tank assignments, but that’s not the point) told me to do so.

I’m not new/unfamiliar to VoD, and have done it many times on many kinds of toons (melee, healer, bard and arcane). I know how it works. I also know that nothing was wrong with the tank assignments (the tank was a very capable FvS, and it actually makes the thing easier IMO, because when sully teleports, he goes back to the tank fast due to the DOT spell on him). But, as we all know, now the hp number appears on the red bar. At a given time, the tank hp went a little below 100 ( I don’t remember the exact number). I saw that and reacted, hitting the imtimi hot key. I couldn’t help it, some things we do due to habit (and a defender build, you know, sometimes defends). Then, I shield blocked until the tank had aggro again, witch was pretty fast. I was even using tharnes, for the -20% hate, as the leader said to take off hate stuff.

Was it the right thing to do? Appears it was not, because all I heard after was “What do you think you’re doing?”, “you won’t get healed from now on”, and the like. I then wrote on the chat saying that I got the situation wrong, and would not intimidate again unless told to do so by the leader, but looks like it wasn’t enough. I don’t remember exactly what happened after, because I was pretty busy trying to keep myself alive with heal scrolls (have the UMD, but the heavy armor does not helped at the time ^^). Maybe the player that was arguing from the beginning continued to argue, I don’t know, but the tank said something on the voice chat and then quit the raid. After that, the rest of the players left too.

I tried to clarify things to the player via pm, but looks like I got squelched immediately (I may be wrong and the player maybe just dc’ed, but its unlikely, since moops posted that they reformed and shortmanned it).

If you feel discouraged by narrow minded people, please try not be one yourself. I don’t mean to be rude at all, but assuming that one player acted due to another players order (other then the raid leader), is kinda narrow minded, I think.

Some people in Sarlona nowadays tend to transform trivial things that happens in quests into big ugly life or death dilemmas. The quest was perfectly under control. Nothing was indicating any chance of failure. What ended the raid prematurely was a discussion on voice/chat. IMHO, rage quit is never the answer, nor is squelch people left and right, without giving the opportunity to try to show the bigger picture (or at least their opinion) in any given situation.

I'm glad the situation was posted here on this thread, as at least here I have the opportunity to explain the whole thing in my point of view.

We were never mad at you--but when I suddenly have to heal half the party since some rogue starts telling them what to do and they listen, it's hard to tank and heal myself, as every time I heal I come out of sheildblock, get cursed, and even loose a stack. BTW I never got to 100 hp, I have over 700 HP when buffed.

I wouldnt say that I rage quit, I knew to finish that we would have to use a ton of resources (pots), and to me that just is not acceptable. I have tanked on Elite with my FVS and did not have issues, as well as done hard a few times with no issue--if a group is not going to listen, as a healer/main spot Im simply not going to stay, I don't have that kind of time.

Throwing pots at everything including stupid players, is not a solution.

There were reasons that we were using the FVS as a tank, I tank LOB, and still need practice tanking and seeing which set up works better, we had someone who was going to be semi AFK and someone with a healer symbol that is a brand new healer. Anyway, it is the rogue who got squelched not you, and we even looke for you to invite you to our shortman run.

[benlin78]

I'm not deaf, and I have NEVER in over a year of playing in PUGs on Sarlona ever been griefed for not using the mic, nor have I EVER seen anyone else griefed for this.

There is a difference between using a mic and not being able to hear.

I have seen people griefed/derided for not being able to hear instructions, even asked to leave the party when they said no speakers.

Just because you don't use your mic has nothing to do with people who can't hear.