Please add (text?) cues to Rainbow Puzzle

[Avidus]

I don't mind adding in something for those that are color blind, but can it not be floaty text.

Instead I would like to see the ability to target the individual lights and have the current color be displayed by name in the focus orb or examine window.

Or perhaps a toggle for floaty text each time the color changes?.

Would something like this work for everyone?

[Hokiewa]

What are the odds that there are six color blind people in a group?

Heh. Your assuming its a group at all. When flagging on a new toon I generally solo this, so this theory wouldn't hold true.

[My2Cents]

You should be able to tell when all the lights are off, right? If so, just turn all the lights off. Then hit the first one once, the second one twice, the third one three times, and so on... Not as a good of a fix, obviously, but it looks like a workaround that should prevent you from having to spend more than five minutes on it.

That pattern sounds good in principle, and I know there are people who use it to complete the puzzle, but I wonder if any of them are people who might lack the ability to visually verify they are doing it correctly. If you can't visually verify your progress, you could spend hours trying to do it right.

For some people, it is not always easy to see OFF, but it can be done, after a bit of careful stepping and looking. Once off, it's difficult for some people to follow those directions, as you cannot tell if you misstep or linger too long on any one spot or fail to change a spot by veering just a bit off the path or any other misstep. How can you tell you accurately stepped on it "once" and made one change and not two changes or no changes? Depending on the color abilities of the person and the specific colors required, this may or may not be easy for someone, depending on their type of colorblindness and what other eye conditions they may have that cause or complicate their colorblindness. Sometimes you cannot KNOW you messed up till you finish and the protective wall doesn't come down. You could be there for hourse, resetting to off and hoping to get the whole thing right on faith.

I appreciate all the responses, but I stand by my request for the change.

[Superspeed_Hi5]

Or they could just stamp a warning on the door portal: "Warning: Color Blind People, turn around and bring a friend!"

[My2Cents]

What amazes me is how many people argue about this: what can it hurt to add some cues?

I am not asking for anything "special", nor anything the DDO development team hasn't recognized as useful with other puzzles. This is a major puzzle in a quest that is required for flagging for a primary crafting venue in the game (greensteel.)

Asking for help sounds easy. Have you tried it? Are you in a supportive guild who responded to help? Have you tried to seek help for this with online friends and those in the LFM/LFG panel? How long did it take? What was the response?

As for your question about text, I have had both legally and totally blind friends, they rely on screen reading tools for text when necessary, and otherwise they rely on voice.

Have you had the unfortunate bad luck to be born with, or to have encountered physical or mental challenges in your life? If so, then I am delighted you have done such a good job of overcoming them. If you have not (yet), I suggest you might consider your own future and how you might feel at that time.

Actually, there is a fairly large disabled and retired community with a lot of time on their hands and the modest budget needed to support DDO. Many of them would and do spend a lot of time in online communities. I've always thought that would be a good source of support for relatively inexpensive MMOs like DDO, especially since I met several such people in "that other" MMO way back before I attained life wisdom and switched

But what about those of us who can't read AND are color blind? Could we also get musical notes? Well you know what? I lost my hearing in 'Nam so that's no good either. Could you spawn an NPC that points to the puzzle and mimics exactly what I should do?

/not signed

There are only a few puzzles in the game, if you can't solo it (like any other quest) bring help.

[TPICKRELL]

I'm colorblind as well, and have already signed the request.

But the simplest way I know of to do this puzzle , is to reset all to off then use the following pattern:

The back button is number #1, the one next to it is #2 and so on.

With all buttons off, run up the stairs and jump down so that you land on #1. That presses #1 one time. Now run across all of the other buttons, so that they all have been pressed once.

Run back up the stairs and jump down to button #2 (dont touch button #1), now run across all the higher number buttons. this results in #1 being pressed once and everything else pressed twice.

Repeat the pattern by jumping down to button #3 and running across the higher numbered buttons... until there are no buttons left.

This results in all the buttons being pressed the correct number of times, and is less subject to counting mistakes or lag errors.

[My2Cents]

With all buttons off, run up the stairs and jump down so that you land on #1. That presses #1 one time. Now run across all of the other buttons, so that they all have been pressed once.

The last time I tried the puzzle stepping on a button seemed to change the color multiple times. if walking onto a button changed it only once, and no change occurred until you stepped off, that would sure be helpful. I did not try "jumping down onto" a button. Maybe there is something else at play here where some conditions may change how the buttons respond? Character DEX, items, bug, something?

Either way, I don't see how cues could hurt. If people feel that text letter cues would give away the spirit of the puzzle, then fine, put 7 lights up on the wall or the stairs or the floor and light each one when that button is pressed to the proper color.

[MrkGrismer]

I think probably the best way to have non-color cues would be to change the pad skin to kind of like a clock-face with the line that moves from like the 3 o'clock position to the 9 o'clock position so:

red : 3
orange : 2
yellow : 1
green : 12
blue : 11
indigo : 10
violet : 9

The pads would start with no line (off)

Maybe just a mark in like the 'outer circle'

Would be easier to illustrate than describe, but I hope I am getting my point across. It wouldn't be immediately obvious to most people but it would allow a color-blind (even monocrome) to tell what state each pad is in. It would also be less obvious than putting a run that changes on each one (R O Y G B I V).

[stoerm]

I'm not colour blind but to my embarrassment don't know what the sequence of colours should be in a rainbow. I simply do the puzzle as described above, by increasing number of presses from the unlit state.

I guess it's a problem if you're colour blind, running it solo for the first time, and don't know of DDOWiki.

Shouldn't this thread be in the Suggestions and Ideas section rather than under Lammania?

[Superspeed_Hi5]

First off I am sorry that your disability prevents you from completing the quest. However there are actually no clues as to how to beat the puzzle other than the title of the adventure. The first time I went in there solo I had no idea as to what needed to be done until I remembered my third grade science class and my good friend Roy G. Biv.

What you are requesting actually takes away from the game in that this floor puzzle is completely different from all the other floor puzzles. Part of the quest is figuring out what needs to be done. When I sat in and watched my friend try it who had never been in there before I sat and watched for a half hour laughing my ass off at him, until he asked how to do it and I just kept singing the chorus to the DIO song of the same name.

Once again I am sorry that you have a disability that makes it virtually impossible to solve this, but as I said before what you want makes it too easy especially for first timers.

/not signed

[madmaxhunter]

The point of the puzzle is colors. I'd only be okay with a change if it doesn't ruin the whole point of the puzzle.

I've resigned myself to just looking at the white dots on many wheel puzzles since they were added. Especially in "The Pit". It's nearly impossible to tell what symbol is shown with the brightness of the dots. Though, on the other hand, it's really easy to find the placards now.

[biggin]

My problem with it is this: some things should be harder for certain people than others. Take the Subt for instance. I have my computer in my game room and my living room has bay area windows. During the day it's very hard for me to see anything down there, yet I don't want to have street lamps added in. It would greatly benefit me and surely others, but would greatly detract from the enviornment.

If you need help with something, ask for help. This isn't public school, we don't have to make oversized desks for the plus sized kid.

[My2Cents]

What you are requesting actually takes away from the game in that this floor puzzle is completely different from all the other floor puzzles. Part of the quest is figuring out what needs to be done. When I sat in and watched my friend try it who had never been in there before I sat and watched for a half hour laughing my ass off at him, until he asked how to do it and I just kept singing the chorus to the DIO song of the same name./not signed

Your point is well taken. I remember fondly the rhyme from my grandmother about the colors of the rainbow and I understand the nature of the puzzle. If you feel that some sort of cue would take away from the spirit of the puzzle, then might I suggest that making this required for completion on a quest required for flagging for something as important as greensteel might be a poor design choice.

[Aedra1]

Once again I am sorry that you have a disability that makes it virtually impossible to solve this, but as I said before what you want makes it too easy especially for first timers.

/not signed

I don't understand how it would make it "too easy" for anyone first timers or otherwise. After running the quest one time, I had figured it out quite easily. And I would say it is one of the easiest puzzles in the whole game. A visual cue much like the dots (numbers) in Reaver's Fate doesn't make it any easier; it just identifies the color for those who cannot differentiate one color from the other.

[My2Cents]

My problem with it is this: some things should be harder for certain people than others. Take the Subt for instance. I have my computer in my game room and my living room has bay area windows. During the day it's very hard for me to see anything down there, yet I don't want to have street lamps added in. It would greatly benefit me and surely others, but would greatly detract from the enviornment.

If you need help with something, ask for help. This isn't public school, we don't have to make oversized desks for the plus sized kid.

I agree with the idea that some things should be harder for certain people than for others. It seems to me that a "reasonable balance" be found, and that's often a subjective decision. I choose to advocate for the things I feel need that balance adjusted. I long ago realized I will probably not be seeing much of the subt and other epics and raids because my work schedule and family obligations limit my ability to group. I consider that just an unfortunete part of the way things are and I live with it. But I feel fairly strongly about this particular issue.

As for the curtains, then there is in fact a time you could do what you want in the Subt? Great, then why not provide certain aids for the colorblind for 1 hour each week?

I also believe in asking help when needed, but when you spend more than one occurrance of more than 3-4 hours asking for help and receiving no or no helpful replies and/or demeaning assistance, it can get old fast.

I also believe that rather than providing larger desks for plus sized kids, if they are plus-sized because of obesity it would be better to change their eating habits and help them lose weight. In the same vein, I would be very happy if there were either ways that color-blindness (and other impairments) could be easily resolved, and I would also find it helpful if software color aids could be used along with DDO. Apparenltly DDO isn't technically friendly for use with screen color-detector software, at least those I have seen.

To be honest, this isn't anywhere near my biggest issue with DDO, or with life, I am just really amazed how much people seem to be resisting this issue and it feels to me like some form of prejudice, and that's just something that's always been close to my hear. Otherwise I'd just be spending this time building my gimp Arti or go offline and eat too much.

I'm not one of those people who wants an easy button for everything life and I grow tired of everyone assuming that's the case but given the nature of these forums I'm not surprised. If you knew me you would know better.

[Hokiewa]

People are generally negative when it comes to change. Assuming a simple change wouldn't take an obscene amount of developer time, I don't find any reason why this couldn't be changed.

It doesn't affect me in the least bit if a second cue was added. I don't think it affects anyone if it was added.

[Delt]

If you accomodate every little request, it amounts to a big request. Beyond that, the nature of the quest is the colours of the rainbow -- if our fearless hero is colour blind, then you should be having trouble here...I doubt the monsters set up their security to be handicap-accessible.

This isn't Reavers Fate, where it's a largely arbitrary and random puzzle.

Beyond that, there is a large amount of software out there to assist people with identifying colours. Why ask the devs to do what you can do yourself?

[dunklezhan]

This feature should be added. However, I think all the tweaks that have been done specifically for this issue should be 'invisible' unless the player hits the 'enable color blind accessibility' button under UI (which doesn't exist, but I'm saying it should). That way those people who don't like the fairly intrusive floaty text option don't have to see it.

It NEEDS to stay primarily colour based by default. The whole quest is about light and dark, and the last puzzle is the rainbow of the quest title. To make it, well, not a rainbow would be a bit odd to say the least.

An option to turn on colour blind accessibility options would enable to them to develop these sorts of things in their own layer that most folk would never have to see, so the design part of it doesn't have to please the majority of the player base (we've seen how well UI changes have gone down twice this year), it just needs to get past the minority of users with this sort of vision problem.

[zeonardo]

Yes please.

I am colour blind and that puzzle is an absolute nightmare for me. I KNOW the solution, but if I misstep once, I'm screwed.

I would just like to have a pop up tell the colour when I cursor over it.

Cheers!

WARNING: SPOILER AHEAD
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Looking from the stair to the boss door, considering 7 plates being 1 the leftmore:
1 = don't step
2 = 1 step
3 = 2 steps
4 = 3 steps
5 = 4 steps
6 = 5 steps
7 = 6 steps

If you misstep any pressure plate:
Step on all of them until all are unlit again. Don't need to see color to realize they are not glowing. Then do as followin:

1 = 1 step
2 = 2 steps
3 = 3 steps
4 = 4 steps
5 = 5 steps
6 = 6 steps
7 = 7 steps

8 = Kill boss
9 = Loot
10 = Greater Teleport
11 = End Reward
And so on...

Hope it helps.

[LordPiglet]

My problem with it is this: some things should be harder for certain people than others. Take the Subt for instance. I have my computer in my game room and my living room has bay area windows. During the day it's very hard for me to see anything down there, yet I don't want to have street lamps added in. It would greatly benefit me and surely others, but would greatly detract from the enviornment.

If you need help with something, ask for help. This isn't public school, we don't have to make oversized desks for the plus sized kid.

Except I shouldn't have to ask for help. ****, maybe they should make a puzzle that you have to be color blind to be able to solve correctly. Then we can all laugh at you guys and say "then ask for help, etc, etc (insert your ******** as to why something that the devs have already been aware of, know is an issue and have made vast steps to improve should no longer be addressed)".

Actually an option for the color blind wouldn't be bad, could lead to some interesting communication with someone trying to call colors and another using dots on the reaver puzzle.

Color blindness is very common, using color based puzzles is poor design, especially if they aren't made to be color blind friendly. The devs have already acknowledges this and are working to improve it.