Need advice for staff user

[badkhan]

I'd like to roll a flavor build. I'd like a halfling with as good as possible DPS with quarterstaves. I've read a lot of threads in the forums but i can't decide what would be the most efficient.

Here are the limitations :

- must be halfling
- i don't have access to ANY p2p race and classes (so no monk).

I would mainly like some advices about class split and must-have feats.

I'm hesitating between
- 13 rogue acrobat II - 6 fighter kensai I (and then 1 more rogue or 1 barbarian).
- 12 fighter kensai II - 6 rogue acrobat I (and then 2 more rogue ? 2 barbarian ? 2 more fighter ?)

Also how much skills points are useful in OL, DD and search ? I'm not focusing on traps and locks but if i can get most of them it would be ok.

I want to max UMD. Is it useful to max balance or half rank would be enough ?

For feats, i was thinking 1 or 2 toughness, 3 THF feats, stunning blow, PA, Weap. Focus, Spec and Imp. Crit Bludgeon).

I'd like to benefit from evasion for surviving, how much DEX is necessary (on a 32pts build) ?

Thanks for any advice you can give me

[unbongwah]

My vote is rogue 13 / ftr 6 / barb 1 (mostly for +10% run speed which stacks w/Acrobat II +10% run speed). Is this 28- or 32-pt build? Any tomes etc?

[badkhan]

It's a 32 pts builds, no tome (but i'm not planning to be uber at all, just have some fun and be as efficient as possible with the little resources i have for this guy).

[unbongwah]

Hasty first draft:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Female
(6 Fighter \ 1 Barbarian \ 13 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 292
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 16
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            16                    20
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Barbarian)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 6 (Fighter)


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Kensei Quarterstaff Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

More later if I get a chance.

[badkhan]

Thanks unbongwah ! Looks very close to what i wanted. I did'nt think about improved sunder, it looks extremely useful.

[FranOhmsford]

Why gimp int on a staff rogue.

Is it really necessary to have a 16 base dex?

Search and Disable are int based skills.

The OP also mentioned UMD which is Cha based {you've left Cha at 8 too}.

[AMDarkwolf]

with as low as 10 int u can easily(VERY easily, with lots of leftover) keep all trap skills maxed out.

With 8 starting charisma your still gonna be kickin around a 56+ UMD at 20.

I don't see any problems with 'gimping' both. (I Would not advise low int, but 10-12 is plenty as long as u use tomes when you can and keep a +6 int item around)

[wax_on_wax_off]

Kensei I is pretty OR. Especially considering the low crit profile of quarterstaffs. I think I'd even consider 6 barbarian for frenzy I or just close to pure rogue (depending on feats).

Improved Sunder should probably make it into your feat line up as it is quite useful in now.

So, 13 rogue (acrobat II)/ 6 barbarian (FB I)/ 1 fighter or 20 rogue.

[FranOhmsford]

with as low as 10 int u can easily(VERY easily, with lots of leftover) keep all trap skills maxed out.

With 8 starting charisma your still gonna be kickin around a 56+ UMD at 20.

I don't see any problems with 'gimping' both. (I Would not advise low int, but 10-12 is plenty as long as u use tomes when you can and keep a +6 int item around)

4 at 1st lvl +19 = 23 ranks in UMD

8 base Cha + +6 item = +2 to UMD

25 total

Where are you getting the other 31 points from?

Sorry Ship buffs add +2 to cha for another +1 to UMD and a Phiarlan skill Boost for another +1

27 total

Skill boost 3 = +6?

33 total

Golden Cartouche = +3 and a +2 tome will add another +1

37 total

That still leaves 19 points

Greater Heroism gives another boost but where's the rest coming from?

[badkhan]

I could drop CON to 14 and get INT and CHA to 10.

It's a hard choice between frienzed berserker and kensai (because i like all the fighter feats). I think kensai suits more to my play style tough.

[Diyon]

I know its really, really long, but read this thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=158960


Do that and you will learn just about everything you could ever possibly want to know about making an acrobat.

I would recommend either starting stats of 16 12 16 12 8 8, or 16 14 16 12 8 8. If you really want some more points for something else, you could maybe drop STR or CON there by 1-2.

[Slaap-Kous-za]

I would Always Recommend a Halfling to go pure rogue.

Starting stats for my Build. used to cap out my assassin and my tr's first life.

Stats
Str 15 + 5 Level + 2 Tome + 2 Exceptional + 6 Item = 30
Dex 15 + 3 Rogue AP + 2 Halfling AP + 2 tome + 2 Exceptional + 6 Item + 2 Capstone = 32
Con 14 + 2 Tome + 2 Exceptional + 6 Item = 24
Int 14 + 6 Item = 20
Wis 8
Cha 10 + 2 Tome + 6 Item = 18

All 5 Level up points into Str.
In my opinion Tomes Are required for Str, Dex and con. Exceptionals are also a great to have.

Feats
01 - Toughness
03 - Power Attack
06 - Toughness
09 - Imp crit Bludgeoning
12 - Toughness
15 - Imp Sunder
18 - Toughness

Rogue Feats
10 - Improved Evasion
13 - Skill Mastery
16 - Skill Mastery
19 - Skill Mastery

Normal Rogue Skill Layout.
Since Thief Acrobats Add Dex to Sneak Attack Damage you want a decent Dex.
I find this build Really Easy to level up and Allot Of fun to play

[AMDarkwolf]

umd.

23 ranks, 4 item (+8 cha, 7 bonus, +1 excep) +5 7 finger, +1 rog past life, +3 skill focus; UMD, +2(Min) skill boost, +4 GH, +6 Greensteel(Cha skills +1, cha skills +2, Cha skills +3, triple air) which comes to 48, with a 'base' cha of 10(8 starting, +2 tome)

I know I can boost it more, and I only have 8 base cha, but to cheak 'how' I would have to log in and do it, which I won't do :P

But 48 already there and I'm just pointing out the things I can remember offhand. (TBH 53 might be a tad high, but 42 is still plenty UMD for anything ingame and 48 is no fail on anything but a VERY few items)


Also I'd strongly suggest the 13/6/1 rog/fgt/barb acroII/kensaiI build, I've run parallel with them while on Atma and they EASILY give me a run for the money. SLIGHTLY less survivability than my build, but much higher dps. And in epics I think they surpass what I can do.

[Fejj]

umd

Lets keep it real. For a flavor build, looking to have fun some of the things you list are just silly.

For no fail Heal Scrolls we need a 39 UMD, lets work it backwards
39 - 23 (Ranks) = 16
16 - 4 (Greater Heroism) = 12
12 - 3 (Golden Cartuche) = 9
9 - 2 (Luck) = 7
7 - 5 (Charisma, 10Base +6Item +2Tome +2Ship = 20 = 5 Bonus) = 2

2 points to go for no fail Heal Scrolls. You will have some choices to make.

Best options
+3 - Dragon Touched Rune (+3 Charisma Skills)
+3 - Epic Spyglasses from Cove Event

Other Options
+2 - Rogue Sill Boost I - Available at rogue lvl 1(have to boost to have no fail)
+2 - Seven Fingered Gloves (Super rare drop from Titan Raid)
+3 - Epic Big Top
+6 - Green Steel (+1, +2, or +3)

OR

4 More points in Charisma from

Epic Items can give +7 (for an add of +1)
Exceptional Bonus (up to +3 total)
More Base Charisma

Hope that helped - Enjoy

[unbongwah]

I did'nt think about improved sunder, it looks extremely useful.

I'm not sure how hard it is to get your DCs high enough, but I figure the -10% fortification from Imp Sunder plus -10% from Opportunist will definitely help out.

Why gimp int on a staff rogue.

To max UMD, Disable, and Search, it takes 69 skill pts. Halfling rogue 13 w/INT 8 gets 112 skill pts - more than enough to max out all three, with enough pts left over to almost max out 2 more skills. Since OP didn't specify skills were a priority (apart from UMD), everything else is pure gravy.

I think I'd even consider 6 barbarian for frenzy I

I'd considered that, my biggest concern would be that with only barb 6, you would only have 4 uses of Rage; would that be enough? Kensai I gets you +3 to-hit (inc. WF), +5 dmg (inc. WS), and +6 crit dmg, if I'm adding right; that's at least equivalent to +6 STR from Rage from barb 6.

Plus feats become more of an issue, as you go from 11 (7 base + 4 ftr) to 8 (7 + 1). THF x3, PA, Cleave, Toughness, Imp Crit Blunt, with 1 left over for, say, Stunning Blow or Imp Sunder. Doable, but seems a shame not to have both SB & IS.

[AMDarkwolf]

Lets keep it real. For a flavor build, looking to have fun some of the things you list are just silly.

K not trying to derail but.. how is this a flavor build?

Acrobats with sticks have very high survivability, excellent utility, can do decent dps, and are not reliant on 'buffz n' hjelz'

That screams 'effectiveness' not 'i r gimp who roleplay'

The items i listed, of them, the only 'non realistic' thing might be the 7 fingered gloves from titan... which at the loss of 2 umd can be supplemented with the golden cartuche or the spyglass.

The greensteel item MIGHT be considered 'tough' to make, but honestly, a single shard greensteel don't' take that much to make. (1 run can get u most of the ing if you get lucky pulls)

[Diyon]

K not trying to derail but.. how is this a flavor build?

Acrobats with sticks have very high survivability, excellent utility, can do decent dps, and are not reliant on 'buffz n' hjelz'

That screams 'effectiveness' not 'i r gimp who roleplay'

The items i listed, of them, the only 'non realistic' thing might be the 7 fingered gloves from titan... which at the loss of 2 umd can be supplemented with the golden cartuche or the spyglass.

The greensteel item MIGHT be considered 'tough' to make, but honestly, a single shard greensteel don't' take that much to make. (1 run can get u most of the ing if you get lucky pulls)

Agreed, staff users aren't flavor builds, they are just rather gear dependent to excel and are lower on the dps curve than they deserve to be (ie, generally doing the exact same build but switching to TWF and some other weapon gets more damage; they need something either utility or damage to justify staff use on an acrobat, so I suppose staff use is a flavor choice, but the overall build can still be effective). If they were flavor builds, then I'd have a lot more trouble getting into raids.

[AMDarkwolf]

Agreed, staff users aren't flavor builds, they are just rather gear dependent to excel and are lower on the dps curve than they deserve to be (ie, generally doing the exact same build but switching to TWF and some other weapon gets more damage; they need something either utility or damage to justify staff use on an acrobat, so I suppose staff use is a flavor choice, but the overall build can still be effective). If they were flavor builds, then I'd have a lot more trouble getting into raids.

In a way yes they are at a slight loss, but imo that loss is made up for the fact that they onlyneed one weapon, not pairs. It saves inv space. (I know this means little when u first look, but i know personaly i have maybe ONE backpack tab free, the rest is taken by gear, scrolls, potions, etc. If I was a TWF i doubt i'd have any space for loots)

2nd to that is the extra attspd from being an acrobat with a stick, it pulls u close to what a twf can do(not equal but closer)

IMO acrobat should have, and should ALWAYS have had, bonuses to things like trip, even a 'passive' ability.

But truth is a 'good' acrobat build vs a 'good' twf both 'geared to the chin' with the best u can get, the stick user will prob still be the one standing when the other is down.

Most of my background comes from having ninja spy I too, which imo adds insane amounts of ability to acrobat.

[FranOhmsford]

Comparing Acrobat to 2 wpn build seems strange to me.

You're considering multiclassing with fighter giving you all martial weapons and you're taking the 2 hander line so compare it to wielding a falchion {elf} or a Greataxe {dwarf}.

I have 3 acrobats {2 elves and a halfling} - between lvl 11 -14 - I really enjoy playing them and all 3 are staff builds.

They are squishie, don't do great damage but I do tend to max trap skills.

I don't have the best gear for them {I really hate repeating quests over and over again on the same character - This prob comes from having 40+ alts}.

So far I've made exactly one Greensteel Item on my Cleric {SP goggles of Haste} and can't even begin to consider making an item just for UMD having seen what that cost to make.

I've Never made an Assassin - much prefer Acrobat and Rogue Mech.

[Grenada]

The items i listed, of them, the only 'non realistic' thing might be the 7 fingered gloves from titan... which at the loss of 2 umd can be supplemented with the golden cartuche or the spyglass.

Actually, tier 3 epic spyglass stacks with 7 fingered gloves. (different bonus types: gloves are competence bonus and spyglass is enhancement bonus iirc)