U12 - The Triforce 12 Mnk/6 Rgr/2 Ftr

[maddmatt70]

I'm not sure you're going to find the room for 6 APs into wisdom.

With that you're still missing 50-75% of the time on your first volley of arrows against epic lailat even with bard song. And that's only once all the gear is acquired.

Still, what it will come down to for me is determining the DPS difference of wisdom vs strength investment assuming that you always hit on a 2. Presumably at some level of gear wisdom investment will give a better return on ranged DPS.

I really hope that someone over on Lama land can be bothered to do some more extensive tests. Perhaps beg the devs for a guild ship? Fire giant in eClaw? (I'd do it myself but can't download lama atm)

Perhaps the formula is something like this:
base 50% chance to proc a second arrow modified by +/- 1% for every point of wisdom modifier
base 0% chance to proc a third arrow modified by +1% for every point of wisdom modifier

That's my null hypothesis, anyone want to give an alternate?

If this was the case then each point of wisdom modifier would give +2% ranged DPS, 50% of the time which makes it a comparable DPS increase as a strength investment. Then it is just a trick to sum up the other pros and cons of each option (+AB for ranged/melee, +AC, +DC, +Will, +melee damage etc).

umm that is not what is going on in game so I am unsure what game you are playing... 50-75% missing with a +54ish to hit it is a wonder that anybody kills Lailat these days lol..

[wax_on_wax_off]

umm that is not what is going on in game so I am unsure what game you are playing... 50-75% missing with a +54ish to hit it is a wonder that anybody kills Lailat these days lol..

BAB 20 Manyshot gives -8 AB while it is active. Epic Lailat has an AC of about 60 so ... first volley at +46 AB =~25% chance to hit. Unless I missed something?

Make sure you're accounting for crits. +1 str mod gets funneled into 19-20/x4, or if with something good, 17-18/x3, 19-20/x4.

+x% chance for an additional attack funnels straight into those critical hits as well

[Fecerak]

The reason to go wisdom based is because it will be possible that it will increase DPS more than what strength based will considering the extra percentage change to proc arrows.

This is before any to-hit issues come into play. I see mid 40s to hit above which seems quite mediocre and BAB 20 manyshot reduces that by a further 8. This is going to create some serious issues with to-hit vs epic mobs (particularly epic lailat which is one of the places that this build will be particularly valuable).

Regarding enhancements, I think I will want to have water stance III as well for passive ki gen to power abundant step/10k stars, maximum AB stance for some epics and maximum stunning fist DC (which will be great for that mob that chases you down). I think it's criminal to suggest it but I don't think I will take ToD, it costs too much ki and will be used too little though no reason not to take one of the prereqs for it that share a cooldown (Static Charge might be a good combo with a LitII bow).

Side note: ToD+Prereqs: 12 AB (not 10 which I think is what was listed).

Not taking ToD, is Shintao a comparable choice? Would be interesting if one of the shintao special moves happened to work with ranged combat, I know they aren't supposed to but when has that ever stopped anything before? From a quick refresher on what Shintao II gives you the answer is a resounding no as the +3d6 sneak attack and shadow fade from NSII is just too good.

ToD+Prereqs is only 10 AP, since if you want ToD that means that you are a dark monk. If you are a dark monk then Ninja Spy > ToD, and Ninja Spy requires 1 of the debuffers as well. So unless you want ToD and not Ninja Spy it will cost 10 additional AP to get it. And well, ToD is some burst damage every 15 secs, while Ninja Spy is 3d6 SA, Shadow Fade, etc.

Depending on how Ten thousand stars scales with wisdom I could see both Str based and Wis based. But note that while Wis based might boost ranged, depending, Str based is a lot better in melee (other than stunning fist) since the benefits to to-hit, ten thousand stars, etc. will not apply in melee. If one is wisdom based one could also argue that AC might be a decent possibility. Since I do not have much epic gear and so on on my toons yet, and aren't the best at calculating possible AC I would be thankful if anyone could come with some calcs

Ill try though (Assuming water stance in AC mode):
10 Base
14 Wisdom (15+5 levels+2 tome+6 item+2 shipbuff+3 exceptional+2 enhancement+3 water stance)
09 Dexterity (16 base+3 tome+7 item+2 shipbuff)
08 Armor
01 Dodge
04 Dodge from Icy Raiments
03 Dodge
05 Deflection
04 Natural Armor
05 CE
03 Shipbuffs
04 Insight (new ring from elite VoD can give this)
02 Dodge (Water stance)
02 Dodge (item)
01 Haste
02 Recitation
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
77

[maddmatt70]

BAB 20 Manyshot gives -8 AB while it is active. Epic Lailat has an AC of about 60 so ... first volley at +46 AB =~25% chance to hit. Unless I missed something?




+x% chance for an additional attack funnels straight into those critical hits as well

There is no -8 AB in DDO unlike pnp for manyshot. Lailat does not have a 60 AC, but more like 55 ac. Finally I neglected haste, point blank shot, weapon focus range feat, and the possibility to swap to epic spectral gloves for +4 to hit although you lose the claw set then and 30% amp if need be. So that to hit is 55 with gh when in point blank range and 59 if swap to spectral gloves and in the low to mid 60s with bard songs and spectral gloves.

My advice in the old days with the strength/dex rangers is until you get the gear go with a higher dex and then when you get the gear respec to strength based. The only added wrinkle with this build is stun fist/TOD dcs, but since this build with 1000 stars and manyshot will spend 2/3 of its time ranging I argue strength based.

Edit: yes you could go for a high ac with decent wis/dex, just that currently ac is not that hot and this does not have hit points to be a true tank build so would have to tweak that as well..

[JasonJi72]

You could make an archer tank with 7 fighter and the SD prestige. Main tank, probably not, but a situational ranged tank?... absolutely. With the hate threat and sheer volume of attacks, you should be able to hold aggro.

This also brings up the fact that you will get a lot of aggro with manyshot in earth stance, whether you want it or not.

[Diyon]

This also brings up the fact that you will get a lot of aggro with manyshot in earth stance, whether you want it or not.

This is where I plan on getting ki back at least some of the time.

[voodoogroves]

Earth stance (as written) only amps melee hate, you'll still get your normal ranged-aggro-is-borked amount.

I have one of these I'm leveling to play around with, mostly because I've got a mess of gear it can use and a spare character slot. Plus, artificer has me thinking I may actually enjoy running an archer type - we'll see.

My tentative plan is to use both Earth3 and Water3, depending, and swapping. Am I being hit ... is my main target crit immune ... etc.

[Samiusbot]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=41
Even older than yours again (I know that it is slightly different, but the differences are very small, mostly just 2 rogue splash instead of 2 fighter, and elf since I didn't have half elf at the time)

But point is, every build has at some point been made, however whenever something new happens that makes a old build better it should be reposted IMO.

Plus, I did not at any point claim I was the first ever to make the build.

I will probably go wisdom based, but just wrote strength based atm, just since I hadn't considered stunning fist yet, and thus I felt like the balance was in the favor of strength as usual.

I might just end up skipping ICrit:Bludgeoning, and quite possibly power attack as well, since I only aim to melee 1/3rd of the time, and with a to-hit that isn't the greatest, as well as lacking feats, etc. I'm not sure it is worth the investment.

I would also point out my bowonk http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=313167 i also want to say i did a bit of an update for my personal past lives and what not http://my.ddo.com/samiusbot/2011/11/04/the-plan/