U12 - The Triforce 12 Mnk/6 Rgr/2 Ftr

[Fecerak]

So, with the upcoming changes in U12 I feel like a monk using ten thousand stars and manyshot for ranged dps with a melee option would be fairly strong, so I have decided to make a post here of the build I have in mind.

I'm not sure if I'll roll it once U12 hits, but I do plan to make it eventually. Considering how U12 is, I feel like it will be a fairly strong build.

I have a previous elf version with a rogue splash that has been sitting at around level 10 for a long while, but I will most likely get rid of it to make room, since half-elf offers quite a bit more imo.

I would not recommend making this build without 32 point build and tomes, since the stat requirements for iPrecise, Zen Archery and so on are fairly tight, and you need more or less everything to be as high as they can be.

Triforce - Melee - Manyshot - Ten thousand stars

Monk 12/Ranger 6/Fighter 2

Strengths:
- Manyshot, slayer arrows, ten thousand stars, crit multiplier from earth stance (if it applies to bows) make for really strong ranged burst dps.
- Strong melee dps between GTWF with unarmed whenever cooldowns are up
- Improved Evasion
- High saves
- Sprint boost and 20% movement speed from 12 monk
- Abundant step
- ToD if you can fit it in
- Shadow fade for survivability
- Could possibly get a decent AC as well if you really want it

Weaknesses:
Not full UMD due to not getting enough feats with rogue levels
Not a caster :P

Stats:
15 Str +levelups
16 Dex +1 levelup or a +3 tome
14 Con +2 tome+6 item+2 shipbuff+2 rage+3 Earth Stance+1 Exceptional = 30
10 Int
14 Wis
08 Cha

Can also take 16 Str and 8 int.

Feats:
Rogue dilletante (can choose others for more survivability but less dps)

Free ranger feats:
- TWF
- iTWF
- Bow Strength
- Rapid Shot
- Manyshot

Feats from class/level:
- Point Blank Shot
- Weapon Focus: Ranged
- Mental Toughness
- Precise Shot
- Improved Precise Shot
- Zen Archery
- Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
- Improved Critical: Ranged
- Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
- Toughness
- Power Attack
- Dodge

Enhancements:
Will be done later

Healing amp max:
100 Base
020 Helf
030 Monk
010
020
030
025 Fire stance jidz-tet-ka
010 Fleshmaker
010 Ship
-----------------------
404% amp

HP:
096 Monk
048 Ranger
020 Fighter
200 Con
020 Heroic durability
010 Draconic vitality
022 Toughness
020 Minos
030 Toughness enh (2 racial, 1 fighter)
045 Shroud HP item
030 GFL
--------------------------------
541

[Valakai]

Hehe. Been toying with the exact same lvl split except on the melee side with WSS and Earth III & race elf. Sounds interesting. I feel there is strong synergy here but cant comment too much since I'm a little unfamiliar with thrown weapons ranged combat.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Hehe. Been toying with the exact same lvl split except on the melee side with WSS and Earth III & race elf. Sounds interesting. I feel there is strong synergy here but cant comment too much since I'm a little unfamiliar with thrown weapons ranged combat.

10,000 stars can be used with bows in U12 which is why the build is interesting.

I've considered the same except that I would swap IC:B for Stunning Fist and put all level ups into wisdom (with the idea that wisdom will increase DPS through 10k stars and AB through zen archery). Stunning Fist in this case can get quite a nice DC for effective CC as well.

[voxson5]

I like it definate potential - all depends how how it actually plays I guess.

What Dil. would you take? Cleric maybe for heal/raise scrolls?

[Fecerak]

Id go with rogue dillettante for the 3d6 SA, although cleric for the healing and paladin for saves aren't bad either.

Might also be others, but can't remember more nice off the top of my head.

It is not going to be using thrown weapons, since in U12 ten thousand stars will apply to bows if you have zen archery.

So in every 2 min period you will have:
20 sec manyshot
1 min 10k stars
40 sec melee

[Fecerak]

Depending on how 10k stars scale with wisdom I might put them in wis as well, but I figured str was a more safe bet until I knew exactly how it worked :P

[elg582]

11 Ranger/9 monk arcane archer helf with rogue dilly, manyshot then switch to wraps and use touch of death.

[Dark-Star]

+1 to you for being the first to post the concept here.

I think a lot of us have naturally come to this class split conclusion, but for me the jury is still out until we see how good 10,000 Stars really is.

A few other issues with the concept, enhancements will be very tight.

In addition, feats are very tight. The way I see it, there are two groups of feats, the must have and the want to have. The build gets a total of 12 feat slots:

Must Have (9)
PBS
WF:R
MT
PS
IPS
GTWF
Toughness
Dodge
ZA

Want to Have (10)
Past Life: Pali
Past Life: Monk
Extend
ICrit: Ranged
ICrit: Bludgeon
Stunning Fist
Stunning Blow
Power Attack
Improved Sunder
Quick Draw

Out of that Wanted list, ICrit: Ranged, Power Attack and Stunning Fist are almost requisite, and making a melee character without ICrit: Bludgeon is painful.

Stats too will be spread thin, as you will want str, con, wisdom, dex all at decent levels.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, I'd like to see what you come up with for to hit. Either you use dex as your to hit, or wisdom. A case can be made for dex as you will need to reach 19 for IPS, but you will be -2 from Mountain stance. Wisdom can be substituted for to hit, but again your starting wisdom will not be huge. With no Shot on the Run you will have a -4 to hit penalty when moving.

There is no clear path to getting everything we'd want on this class split, and sacrifices will have to be made. Flesh out the to hit and damage numbers, the stats as well as the AP and let's see where we end up.

[maddmatt70]

+1 to you for being the first to post the concept here.

I think a lot of us have naturally come to this class split conclusion, but for me the jury is still out until we see how good 10,000 Stars really is.

A few other issues with the concept, enhancements will be very tight.

In addition, feats are very tight. The way I see it, there are two groups of feats, the must have and the want to have. The build gets a total of 12 feat slots:

Must Have (9)
PBS
WF:R
MT
PS
IPS
GTWF
Toughness
Dodge
ZA

Want to Have (10)
Past Life: Pali
Past Life: Monk
Extend
ICrit: Ranged
ICrit: Bludgeon
Stunning Fist
Stunning Blow
Power Attack
Improved Sunder
Quick Draw

Out of that Wanted list, ICrit: Ranged, Power Attack and Stunning Fist are almost requisite, and making a melee character without ICrit: Bludgeon is painful.

Stats too will be spread thin, as you will want str, con, wisdom, dex all at decent levels.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, I'd like to see what you come up with for to hit. Either you use dex as your to hit, or wisdom. A case can be made for dex as you will need to reach 19 for IPS, but you will be -2 from Mountain stance. Wisdom can be substituted for to hit, but again your starting wisdom will not be huge. With no Shot on the Run you will have a -4 to hit penalty when moving.

There is no clear path to getting everything we'd want on this class split, and sacrifices will have to be made. Flesh out the to hit and damage numbers, the stats as well as the AP and let's see where we end up.

Icrit Bludgeon will not be that big of a loss because you spend over 50% of your time ranging and icrit bludgeon only adds 5% damage while meleeing and for that matter stunning fist is less useful on this type of build because it will range more so then not. You have to wrap your head around the concept of Range first melee second which is what this build espouses. The one situation where its melee first range second is for e.g. in the Lord of blades raid.

The to hit is not an issue with gear although this build will have to use epic thornlord more so then not. My to hit on my 11 ranger 9 monk is a little less then what this build projects out to be currently. This build will have a low 30s wisdom and with the following gear set should be good when dpsing.
Trinket: Gem of Many Facets/+1 strength
Helm: Pirate hat +6 seeker and +15 balance
Goggles: Epic Raven's Sight
Armor: Epic Red Dragon w/heavy Fort&+6 con
Cloak: Wretched Twilight (u12)
Necklace: shintao
Belt: Frenzy Berserker
Ring 1: Shintao w/+2 exc strength on it.
Ring 2: Frenzy Berserker w/Holy Burst on it.
Bracer: Howler Bracers
Gloves: Epic Claw
Boots: Madstone

I was playing around with a ranged tank concept with this split but can not get the numbers to quite work out. The intimidate was low 60s and hit points with tank gear set was 640ish but the healing amp was off the charts so probably good enough to tank sulu in elite Tower, but not LOB epic. I looked at a 12 monk 7 fighter 1 wizard build but would have to go shintao, give up precise and improved precise shot just to get a mid 70s intimidate, lacking dr, and mid 700s hp. I think a ranged tank concept would work beautiful in LOB because you easily get aggro, you can go for max dps, and can dps the lob while he is away from you, etc, but numbers low and not as good dps wise...

[slimkj]

I think a lot of us have naturally come to this class split conclusion, but for me the jury is still out until we see how good 10,000 Stars really is.

Or we already have it and are just waiting on Live release to bugger about with it.

[Fecerak]

Lets try a quick listing of to-hit:

Ranged:
20 BAB
08 Dex (19 (base+tome)+7 item (buccaneer is easy to get)+2 shipbuff-2 Earth Stance
04 Competence (crafted or otherwise)
05 Weapon
01 WF
01 PBS
-------------
39 Standing
01 Haste
02 Recitation
--------------
42 Basic buffs

That feels like a bit on the low side, although I'm sure it could be improved quite a bit with better gear.

Melee:
20 BAB
15 Str (15 base+5 levels+2 tome+2 madstone+2 shipbuff+2 rage+2 ram's might+7 item+1 exceptional+2 exceptional (assuming you can fit in those))
04 Competence
05 Weapon
-------------------------
44 Standing
01 Haste
02 Recitation
-------------------------
47 Basic buffs
-5 Power Attack
-------------------------
42 Forgot PA initially, so not all that great either :/

Favored attack also boosts with +1 against FE

As for enhancements

Enhancements:
Required (IMO):
06 Rogue Dilletante
08 AA V
05 Slayer Arrows
01 Haste Boost I
03 Favored Damage II
01 Sprint Boost I
02 Air II
01 Ten Thousand Stars
05 Earth III
10 Ninja Spy II (+ the skill enhancements)
03 Clever Monkey II (or other path, I just prefer monkey)
02 Vulnerability, prereq for Ninja Spy
03 Racial Toughness II
01 Fighter Toughness I
03 Human Versatility II
02 Favored Attack I
02 Fighter Strength I
----------------------------
58 AP

Very nice to have:
07 Human Versatility III-IV
12 Improved Recovery III
06 Improved Recovery II
02/06 Adaptability I/II
03 Clever monkey III (Or other path)
01 Favored Resistance I
10 ToD (+ prereqs)
----------------------------
41/45

Also nice to have:
Monk Wisdom
Ranger Dexterity
Sprint Boost II
Favored Defence (if you want AC)
More Monk Stances

All in all you will have little issue filling up a list containing 80 AP with nice enhancements, and getting exactly what you want is going to be tough, but I think it's doable, especially if you skip ToD, which arguably isn't worth it (considering you would melee about 1/3rd of the time, need some ki for 10k stars, and compared to the ki cost I'm not sure it does THAT great damage (it's definately nice, but not sure if it is worth the 10 AP it costs, when you compare to the other possible options).

[Thrudh]

This has been done... I have one.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=294899

It was a solid build even before the Ten Thousand Stars change... I'm looking forward to seeing how well that works...

I would suggest becoming Wisdom based and put your level-ups in Wisdom (Zen Archery lets you use your Wisdom bonus with your bows) and taking Stunning Fist instead of Power Attack.

Also get Zen Archery fairly early... Makes a huge difference to be able to switch between handwraps and bows without becoming uncentered and losing your stance and ki.

[maddmatt70]

This has been done... I have one.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=294899

It was a solid build even before the Ten Thousand Stars change... I'm looking forward to seeing how well that works...

I would suggest becoming Wisdom based and put your level-ups in Wisdom (Zen Archery lets you use your Wisdom bonus with your bows) and taking Stunning Fist instead of Power Attack.

Also get Zen Archery fairly early... Makes a huge difference to be able to switch between handwraps and bows without becoming uncentered and losing your stance and ki.

Why go wisdom based with gear to-hit will not be an issue and will be ranging more then meleeing so will be stunning less so less concerned with stun fist dcs.. Go strength based with a starting wisdom of 16 can still hit low 30s wisdom..

[Thrudh]

Why go wisdom based with gear to-hit will not be an issue and will be ranging more then meleeing so will be stunning less so less concerned with stun fist dcs.. Go strength based with a starting wisdom of 16 can still hit low 30s wisdom..

Well, my guy melees about 50% of the time, and Stunning Fist is awesome...

Also, isn't the new Ten Thousand Stars wisdom-based?

So if he's building this character because of the Ten Thousand Stars change, seems like Wisdom based is the way to go...

STR-based is a solid choice too... but Wisdom-based on a monk\archer with Zen Archery is very nice. Great synergy since many monk abilities are based on Wisdom (Touch of Death save too, right?), it gives you AC, and increases your to-hit with bows.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Why go wisdom based with gear to-hit will not be an issue and will be ranging more then meleeing so will be stunning less so less concerned with stun fist dcs.. Go strength based with a starting wisdom of 16 can still hit low 30s wisdom..

The reason to go wisdom based is because it will be possible that it will increase DPS more than what strength based will considering the extra percentage change to proc arrows.

This is before any to-hit issues come into play. I see mid 40s to hit above which seems quite mediocre and BAB 20 manyshot reduces that by a further 8. This is going to create some serious issues with to-hit vs epic mobs (particularly epic lailat which is one of the places that this build will be particularly valuable).

Regarding enhancements, I think I will want to have water stance III as well for passive ki gen to power abundant step/10k stars, maximum AB stance for some epics and maximum stunning fist DC (which will be great for that mob that chases you down). I think it's criminal to suggest it but I don't think I will take ToD, it costs too much ki and will be used too little though no reason not to take one of the prereqs for it that share a cooldown (Static Charge might be a good combo with a LitII bow).

Side note: ToD+Prereqs: 12 AB (not 10 which I think is what was listed).

Not taking ToD, is Shintao a comparable choice? Would be interesting if one of the shintao special moves happened to work with ranged combat, I know they aren't supposed to but when has that ever stopped anything before? From a quick refresher on what Shintao II gives you the answer is a resounding no as the +3d6 sneak attack and shadow fade from NSII is just too good.

[maddmatt70]

The reason to go wisdom based is because it will be possible that it will increase DPS more than what strength based will considering the extra percentage change to proc arrows.

This is before any to-hit issues come into play. I see mid 40s to hit above which seems quite mediocre and BAB 20 manyshot reduces that by a further 8. This is going to create some serious issues with to-hit vs epic mobs (particularly epic lailat which is one of the places that this build will be particularly valuable).

.

Sigh, did you even look at the gear I posted. Howler Bracer, Epic Raven's Sight, Shintao Set, and using Epic Thornlord. The wisdom is 34 wtih 16 base, +3 exceptional, +3 wis tome, +6 item enhance, yug pot and ship buff and 2 monk wis enhance, Bab 20. With a Greater Heroism that all comes out to 52 and with bard songs which will likely be on raids mid to high 50s.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Sigh, did you even look at the gear I posted. Howler Bracer, Epic Raven's Sight, Shintao Set, and using Epic Thornlord. The wisdom is 34 wtih 16 base, +3 exceptional, +3 wis tome, +6 item enhance, yug pot and ship buff and 2 monk wis enhance, Bab 20. With a Greater Heroism that all comes out to 52 and with bard songs which will likely be on raids mid to high 50s.

I'm not sure you're going to find the room for 6 APs into wisdom.

With that you're still missing 50-75% of the time on your first volley of arrows against epic lailat even with bard song. And that's only once all the gear is acquired.

Still, what it will come down to for me is determining the DPS difference of wisdom vs strength investment assuming that you always hit on a 2. Presumably at some level of gear wisdom investment will give a better return on ranged DPS.

I really hope that someone over on Lama land can be bothered to do some more extensive tests. Perhaps beg the devs for a guild ship? Fire giant in eClaw? (I'd do it myself but can't download lama atm)

Perhaps the formula is something like this:
base 50% chance to proc a second arrow modified by +/- 1% for every point of wisdom modifier
base 0% chance to proc a third arrow modified by +1% for every point of wisdom modifier

That's my null hypothesis, anyone want to give an alternate?

If this was the case then each point of wisdom modifier would give +2% ranged DPS, 50% of the time which makes it a comparable DPS increase as a strength investment. Then it is just a trick to sum up the other pros and cons of each option (+AB for ranged/melee, +AC, +DC, +Will, +melee damage etc).

[Fecerak]

The reason to go wisdom based is because it will be possible that it will increase DPS more than what strength based will considering the extra percentage change to proc arrows.

This is before any to-hit issues come into play. I see mid 40s to hit above which seems quite mediocre and BAB 20 manyshot reduces that by a further 8. This is going to create some serious issues with to-hit vs epic mobs (particularly epic lailat which is one of the places that this build will be particularly valuable).

Regarding enhancements, I think I will want to have water stance III as well for passive ki gen to power abundant step/10k stars, maximum AB stance for some epics and maximum stunning fist DC (which will be great for that mob that chases you down). I think it's criminal to suggest it but I don't think I will take ToD, it costs too much ki and will be used too little though no reason not to take one of the prereqs for it that share a cooldown (Static Charge might be a good combo with a LitII bow).

Side note: ToD+Prereqs: 12 AB (not 10 which I think is what was listed).

Not taking ToD, is Shintao a comparable choice? Would be interesting if one of the shintao special moves happened to work with ranged combat, I know they aren't supposed to but when has that ever stopped anything before? From a quick refresher on what Shintao II gives you the answer is a resounding no as the +3d6 sneak attack and shadow fade from NSII is just too good.

ToD+Prereqs is only 10 AP, since if you want ToD that means that you are a dark monk. If you are a dark monk then Ninja Spy > ToD, and Ninja Spy requires 1 of the debuffers as well. So unless you want ToD and not Ninja Spy it will cost 10 additional AP to get it. And well, ToD is some burst damage every 15 secs, while Ninja Spy is 3d6 SA, Shadow Fade, etc.

Depending on how Ten thousand stars scales with wisdom I could see both Str based and Wis based. But note that while Wis based might boost ranged, depending, Str based is a lot better in melee (other than stunning fist) since the benefits to to-hit, ten thousand stars, etc. will not apply in melee. If one is wisdom based one could also argue that AC might be a decent possibility. Since I do not have much epic gear and so on on my toons yet, and aren't the best at calculating possible AC I would be thankful if anyone could come with some calcs

Ill try though (Assuming water stance in AC mode):
10 Base
14 Wisdom (15+5 levels+2 tome+6 item+2 shipbuff+3 exceptional+2 enhancement+3 water stance)
09 Dexterity (16 base+3 tome+7 item+2 shipbuff)
08 Armor
01 Dodge
04 Dodge from Icy Raiments
03 Dodge
05 Deflection
04 Natural Armor
05 CE
03 Shipbuffs
04 Insight (new ring from elite VoD can give this)
02 Dodge (Water stance)
02 Dodge (item)
01 Haste
02 Recitation
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
77

[Fecerak]

This has been done... I have one.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=294899

It was a solid build even before the Ten Thousand Stars change... I'm looking forward to seeing how well that works...

I would suggest becoming Wisdom based and put your level-ups in Wisdom (Zen Archery lets you use your Wisdom bonus with your bows) and taking Stunning Fist instead of Power Attack.

Also get Zen Archery fairly early... Makes a huge difference to be able to switch between handwraps and bows without becoming uncentered and losing your stance and ki.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=41
Even older than yours again (I know that it is slightly different, but the differences are very small, mostly just 2 rogue splash instead of 2 fighter, and elf since I didn't have half elf at the time)

But point is, every build has at some point been made, however whenever something new happens that makes a old build better it should be reposted IMO.

Plus, I did not at any point claim I was the first ever to make the build.

I will probably go wisdom based, but just wrote strength based atm, just since I hadn't considered stunning fist yet, and thus I felt like the balance was in the favor of strength as usual.

I might just end up skipping ICrit:Bludgeoning, and quite possibly power attack as well, since I only aim to melee 1/3rd of the time, and with a to-hit that isn't the greatest, as well as lacking feats, etc. I'm not sure it is worth the investment.

[Samiusbot]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=41
Even older than yours again (I know that it is slightly different, but the differences are very small, mostly just 2 rogue splash instead of 2 fighter, and elf since I didn't have half elf at the time)

But point is, every build has at some point been made, however whenever something new happens that makes a old build better it should be reposted IMO.

Plus, I did not at any point claim I was the first ever to make the build.

I will probably go wisdom based, but just wrote strength based atm, just since I hadn't considered stunning fist yet, and thus I felt like the balance was in the favor of strength as usual.

I might just end up skipping ICrit:Bludgeoning, and quite possibly power attack as well, since I only aim to melee 1/3rd of the time, and with a to-hit that isn't the greatest, as well as lacking feats, etc. I'm not sure it is worth the investment.

I would also point out my bowonk http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=313167 i also want to say i did a bit of an update for my personal past lives and what not http://my.ddo.com/samiusbot/2011/11/04/the-plan/